Lolzzz, cheeky 😝

Bullying is to seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable). I haven’t done that, are you going to call out those who have?

I can see a few who have actively sought to bully me

I’m not bullying, it would be hypocritical if I argued that it was wrong of DB but ok if someone on the forum did it would it not?

I’m simply stating an alternative view point which has been consistent across threads. I’ve not singled one person out as you lot have, but I have attempted to call it out when I see it, it’s hard to address every comment and I don’t intend to. I actually saw the post on the Aldi thread but chose to say nothing, it was only when it was posted as an example on this thread that I repsonded. Yet you say I go looking for a fight?

That’s a classic example of gaslighting.

Not seen sexism or other derogatory comments towards minorities on the forum, really? “Louise”? “Jugs”? “I don’t ride with girls…”? “W** ***”? “N*”? “P***”? Are just a few of the words I found. It is black and white (pun intended, the mag even published an article “Where have all the words gone?” to attack me) you don’t do anything to harm others, it is that simple. If you do then take responsibility and address it, that way we can all learn.

Just because I go against the consensus doesn’t mean I’m wrong, I’d say strong. I’m an easy target, I admit my flaws and it has previously been weaponised against me, it’s something I hope to learn from and I hope that you do too

“Stand down people, he’s been the victim of a politically correct STW hit mob! He was taken out of context! The excuses are endless. The wholedebacle and its aftermath can teach us a lot about how racism works.

Let the gaslight in commence

Encountering this kind of abuse, you face a crossroads. Swallow the bitter pill and act like nothing happened, or confront it. Either way, in a group of non-allied white people, the racist wins. If you say nothing, you both know there will be more of it to come. Confront it, and you face the wrath of the group.

There’s no way to ‘prove’ racist intent. And so those who find the abuser likeable give them the benefit of the doubt. They haven’t lived through this scenario a hundred times over in their lives, and so they (knowingly or otherwise) perpetuate the abuse by further alienating the target. It’s gross.

Then he paints himself as a martyr to the “outraged” offence-seekers who are hounding him, and that’s the real problem here. Then comes the whitesplaning, giving him their mark of trust.”

That’s a paraphrase of an article written for The Canary by Kerry-Anne Mendoza but it applies to every argument about racism, I guess that’s why Reni Eddo-Lodge is no longer talking to white people about race.

I’m not surprised that you see the idea of treating everyone with respect an extreme idea, anything that is seen to threaten your right to freedom of speech and privilege is immediately set upon by the forum. You only have to look at other threads on gender or sexism to see that anyone other than cis white males are unpopular on here, any other voice is silenced.

Wow! Someone else links your post from another thread detailing how it could be interpreted as racist and I detailed the detrimental and harmful effect it can have on people’s life outcomes and you blame me for pointing it out rather than have a rational discussion and admitting you made a faux pas? That’s gaslighting and you say I have issues? Yes, I do with bigotry. Is that wrong?

Then you go on to say that if I don’t like it I should keep away from media and descend into pettiness,<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”> and you say you’re not racist?</span>

Racism is more than just hate

@funkmastererp as a joke you’ve re-enforced a negative stereotype which is harmful to people’s life outcomes, to possibly how many thousand people on the forum?

I understand that it’s unintentional but it still causes harm as it influences people’s views. It is saddening to think that my kids have to attain and achieve more to even be recognised as equal to a white person. It is saddening to think that my kids face higher scrutiny as people automatically think the colour of their skin reflects their personality. Yet you’re sad because you can’t make a joke which benefits your privilege?

My kids are coming home with a police escort on Monday, are yours chased down the street and threatened because of the colour of their skin?

No, I’m not outraged it’s a reflection of their opinion, not mine. I think the poster might be when they’re called out as a lazy eejit with at least an unconscious bias against black people, but they’ve probably been on here arguing that they aren’t racist and anyone who supports black people are snowflakes. These ttitudes contribute to a hostile atmosphere towards non whites as this forum shows.

Of course the majority are going to agree with you, it’s an echo chamber of privilege and not a welcoming forum or sport towards anyone who isn’t cis white male with a lean to the right

Ok, never mind the newspaper article or the other video which video which gives a sociological explanation that I also posted earlier. Here’s another example of spontaneous order in Portishead, England. They experiment to remove the lights worked so well that they switched them off permanently

When I was 15 Wendy James lived next door to my friends in France. They got a letter one day and asked my friends parents to translate it, it was an eviction notice 😂 She invited them to her gig in Edinburgh and I got to tag along too 😃 after we went back to their hotel and she sat and chatted to me for quite a while; she was only wearing a wee white dressing gown. My friends dad was a mess 😂

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Ann Ashaye (@aweeshoe) on May 11, 2019 at 4:45pm PDT

View this post on Instagram

A post shared by Ann Ashaye (@aweeshoe) on May 11, 2019 at 4:45pm PDT

I happen to think that if people (all people, all groups) did obey the rules of the road (highway code) the roads actually would be a more harmonious place. That’s what rules, laws and social contracts are in place to provide.

Willfully flouting them whenever you see fit just creates discord.

Except the exact opposite happens, as demonstrated in my previous posts. Have you heard of spontaneous order, or order out of chaos? It’s the system which has resulted in evolution, language and beautiful fractals. It’s a reaction to the environment, not by design and it produces the most stable systems.

Here’s a more visual example of what happens when the traffic lights go out and people make up their own rules

I ♥ it, how much weight do you think it’ll add to my bike?

“You simply have to pay attention to the pedestrians read their body language and pre-empt their actions.

It’s not difficult”

Geex may not be the best advocate when it comes to considering others 😉 but his principle is right as he’s paying attention to other people and is prepared to act accordingly to avoid a collision, rather than blindly following automated instructions which may result in putting himself and others in unnecessary danger.

It’s one instance where anarchy demonstrably works!

Although I didn’t have any perceived speech (he maybe processing all the information that’s coming at him all at once, there’s not only the words said but tone, volume, pace, meaning, alternative meaning, body language, intention, arrgh… And people want an answer now?) or physical develmental delays I do recognise a lot of other behaviours in myself. I still watch the washing machine 😂 and I still stim in my 40’s. They are a lot more subtle and socially acceptable, things like tapping the end of each finger with my thumb or an itch. I can even pass as normal, for short periods.

In my experience the physical symptoms are a result of the mental and emotional difficulties I’m having in processing a situation. They help to slow down the flood of information that I’m receiving and allow me to focus. This may also why he’s taking longer than expected to use the potty, I’m toilet trained but I often forget to eat as I get so involved in what I’m doing that I don’t recognise hunger.

Hunger can also feel like emotions such as anger, excitement or sadness, to me they all feel the same and it’s the conscious thought process that defines them. You’ve probably tried many things to encourage him to use the loo but I find that for me it’s helpful to have a routine, like when you get up, after breakfast, mid morning.

B&Q can be a whole day out! I had my own tool kit by the age of 7 and was an awesome female plumber 😂

I’m glad that the Met are investing it, it may seem innocuous to those who don’t see colour or see its racist connotations but it gives racism a legitimacy.

I received a phone call yesterday from my 11yr old daughter, she was in tears screaming “they’re chasing us, helllllllp” Her and her two friends were being chased by a large group of teenagers from a supermarket for over half a mile. Among threats of violence and death were “OooOo, OooOoo”

I wonder who inspired that?

It’s opinions like some of those on this thread who have legitimised it, how many of your kids have heard your conversations about DB?

How many kids have heard “that’s not offensive”?

How many of your kids have heard you call out “Snowflakes”?

What’s happening to my kids is the consequences of your ignorance

I should have put in a wee synopsis of what the guy says in the video to save people watching it.

When you’re using the road, whether you are a pedestrian, cyclist or driver following the “rules” of the road change the way in which you think about other road users. When you see a green light changing to red the cyclist in front of you becomes an obstacle and not someone who is going to work or whatever. By removing traffic lights you force people to acknowledge each other other and give way, it’s human nature to interact and facilitate the movement of people and that’s exactly what happens.

People don’t go all carmaggedon and kill as many people as they can on the way to work, instead they’re more aware and vigilant of others around them. You’d think that traffic would grind to a standstill but the flow at junctions actually improves and there are less accidents!

I don’t need laws to know how to be considerate and respectful to others, do you?

This guy puts it well

Why have traffic lights at all? Removing them in Amsterdam actually reduced accidents and journey times

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2017/sep/22/what-happens-if-you-turn-off-the-traffic-lights

“Ignorantia juris non excusat”

Ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law

“I called my ex a cheeky monkey once, I never thought anything of it but I may as well have called him a c*** judging by the look on his face.”

“Have you ever done the Harvard implicit bias test? It covers a range of biases from ableism to sexism I was surprised to discover that I’m racist owards white people!”

Yup, I said that. So you’re using my argument which I used an example of my ignorance to demonstrate my own prejudices and racism, yet you are using the same argument to say that you and DB can’t be because you weren’t aware of the implications?

I think you’re getting your knickers in a twist.

The difference between our opinions is that I learned something that I wasn’t previously aware of and I have used it to grow in to a better and more educated individual who is more aware of how my attitude affects others, you’re just using it as an excuse to carry on being racist.

(racism is still more than hate, it’s apathy, indifference, ignorance… And it doesn’t matter if you know it or not)

@cumberlanddan Wow! Any evidence of any racist comments I’ve made? No, there’s not. I’d accept an apology for your abuse and defamation of my character.

Racism is not one of those “if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it” kinda questions, intention and interpretation have nowt to do with it. Relating the only black royals to a monkey is racist, end of. He could have qualified the photo at the time, but as in my story he chose to try and cover his tracks later instead.

I’ve stated my perspective clearly and concisely and provided you with ample explanations of unconscious bias and how racism manifests. Thanks for demonstrating my point so passionately, it’s a shame that you can’t grasp the concept but I don’t think you’re ever going to be able to grasp the complexity of simple bigotry

Cheers @easily, it was a real eye opener for me. It’s not people’s ignorance that surprises me, it’s the lengths they will go to to defend it.

I could use the teacher who casually said “Black people can’t swim” to a small group of 10yr old girls discussing their swimming lessons, one of them was black, as an example.

I informally enquired as to how the statement was qualified, the HT said that the teacher had a black brother-in-law and they were discussing which countries were good at sport? I asked where the Black Country was, as far as I was aware it was somewhere near Somerset.

The LA said that the information was “factual” and that black people are physiologically different to white people. It had also become a class discussion about athletics and it was a “factual” response. We even got offered extra free swimming lessons, my kids swim. In fact a black woman had just won a gold medal in swimming was beyond them as were socioeconomics.

No right of reply, I did anyway and was redirected to the SPSO. However, due to legislation the SPSO can’t investigate anything to do with conduct, curriculum or discipline in schools.

John Swinney redirected me to the Govan Law Centre, but racism isn’t in their remit.

Notice a pattern?

Legal aid doesn’t cover human rights or public law.

That’s not even the worst of it.

My kids had to move school and I was threatened with the losing them, it would be so much better if I stopped pursuing my complaint. They didn’t quite agree with telling the racists to stop, apparently it’s more offensive. It’s not the teacher who I’d like to see sacked, he made a stupid comment when the others considered theirs. (It’s also a bit weird that the kid who was considering suicide at 6yrs old records went missing in the transfer??)

I’m now considering my actions and have had a consultation with Aamer Anwar, but it will cost £60K to step in to court. I’ve done my homework though and have the support of not only academics but the whole bloomin institution.

I’m not going to name the council, they have approached other sites to redact it and I’d hate for STW to get into trouble but they can sue me if they wish as it would be a lot easier for me and I’m happy to pm anyone who asks

Aye, they are. They’re calling people who thought it was racist snowflakes and easily offended. I’m not offended in any way, someone else’s opinion has no reflection upon me and the more they defend it the sillier they look. I do however get mighty peeved off that these people are my kids future employers and inlaws and can influence my kids outcomes because of their own ignorance. People who hold these ideas are also parents and educators and so these ideas get passed on, our grandkids are going to be having the same discussions.

@pondo ?? No, it would not mean that you are racist if you saw the link between black people being associated with monkeys. To me it would suggest that someone can see beyond the end of their own nose

@easily my post wasn’t specifically addressed to you but to the thread in general. <span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>There are people on the thread who are defending what DB said and that they don’t see how or why people could be offended and those who are are [insert insult here] and no, I don’t mean you either @convert, go back to page 4 or was it page 3</span>

I’ve met white people who have black partners and are also racist, as I’ve said before that the intention is irrelevant. We are all conditioned by the same system, even black people can hold racial prejudice towards other black people. I called my ex a cheeky monkey once, I never thought anything of it but I may as well have called him a c*** judging by the look on his face. Would I call my kids it now? No. Never. Not when monkey noises are made at them in the school corridor and not while the majority of society associates them with animals. I wouldn’t call a white kid it either.

Have you ever done the Harvard implicit bias test? It covers a range of biases from ableism to sexism I was surprised to discover that I’m racist owards white people! I’m paler than pale 😂

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/education.html

So, if you can see how it can be detrimental to equate someone or group with an animal why are you supporting it? I could accept his ignorance if he had sincerely been so, but he hasn’t.

Your argument gives the association a legitimacy that sets us back 200 years, when really we should be planning a revolution

Why would someone be offended because I implied that what they thought and said was stupid? I’m not offended so no one else should be, what a bunch of drama queens 😝 It’s not like I equated your appearance or intelligence to that of an animal. Hmmm. Hypocritical much? Mibbes aye

I’m sorry if I’m coming across as antagonistic but I have previously explained my perspective on this thread and others. I’ve had similar discussions many, many times as I have children of mixed heritage. I’m white and lived in a little bubble, believing attitudes had progressed. That’s was until I had a black partner, I can’t believe what I’ve seen and experienced since meeting him and having children. It’s the sort of treatment you see in films. He just brushes it off, he’s thankful the police are keeping an eye on him as it makes him feel safer. He ignores the looks and comments on the street, in shops, restaurants…

Our kids don’t. They feel disenfranchised when the teacher said they couldn’t do something, because they were black. They feel disgusting when a friend says that they are dirty, because they are black. They feel scared when someone shouts at them in the street, because they are black.

But you’re not offended, so that’s ok.

1. Racism is more than just hate. It’s apathy. It’s disinterest. It’s ignorance. It’s power. It’s privilege. And so on. It doesn’t matter whether you know it or not, it still works in your favour if you are white. Paraphrase of Scott Wood’s lists.

2. Unconscious biases are learned and automatic stereotypes which are so deeply ingrained in our psyche that we aren’t even aware of them, yet they influence our behaviour. You are responsible if your actions or words are harmful to someone else, directly or indirectly and intentional or not. Studies have demonstrated that teachers will mark a student lower if they have a foreign sounding name, judges will pass a harsher sentence if the defendant is black and black people are less likely to be promoted. But no one is racist, right? It’s just an opinion.

3. If you were to see Megan in the street wearing joggy bottoms and a hoodie you’d call her black, money makes her whiter and more acceptable. To say you don’t see colour means that you are blind to the difficulties black people face every day.

It’s all relative

It shows how blinkered and pathetic some people are, you’re really clutching at straws if you’re juxtaposing racism with bbqs and questioning how many people does it take for a comment to be considered racist.

The answer is none, if you’re surrounded by like minded eejits. If you compare, joke or even just tolerate dehumanising people then you are a bigot and are participating in discrimination.

Claimed ignorance if you wish but you’re looking mighty stupid trying to defend it

“… but to those with obviously racists views they see an instant connection between monkeys and colour of a persons skin.”

So the black people and those who are aware of the discrimination that they face are racist? Got to love whitesplaning, racism is still racism whether it affects you negatively or not.

Racism isn’t just hate either, it’s indifference, apathy, ignorance… It all contributes to discrimination and lower life outcomes for anyone who is non-white, it’s all very well saying that you don’t see peoples skin colour as an issue but then you also don’t see the difficulties they face.

It must be wonderful to view the world from the dadsnet perspective, it’s<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”> a classic example of ignorance which is defined as a lack of knowledge or information.</span>

If he was consciously unaware of how liking a monkey to a person of mixed heritage after growing up in the UK is racist, then his bias is certainly unconscious as the association has been made everywhere.

“Sorry my gag pic of the little fella in the posh outfit has whipped some up. Never occurred to me because, well, mind not diseased” Danny Baker

That’s an attack, not an apology. He says that if people thought it was a racist comment then their minds are diseased!

Unconscious bias is still bias and it still has repercussions which the perpetrator is still responsible for.

When I first saw the photo I immediately thought of the connection with racism. I don’t buy his thinly veiled excuse of ignorance, racism is part of our social conditioning and the monkey association with people who have black skin has been around since Kant, Darwin and his nephew Galton developed the eugenics pseudo science.

If you didn’t immediately make the association thence it shows how ignorant and/or privileged you are. Just last week my mixed heritage kids were taunted with monkey calls from a kid at school, I’ve heard N* shouted across the street at them, teachers has made racist comments about them and my education board has said that “black people are physiologically different to white people”

When you are a white male it’s easy to dismiss racism and say MTFU and call out “Snowflake” but what would you do when your 6yr old wants to kill themselves because their peers are telling them that “brown people are dirty/smelly/stupid” or their teachers are telling them they are too sensitive?

I think that the BBC did the responsible thing and took a zero tolerance stance, there’s no place for racism

I used to know someone like the OP, now I don’t I actually enjoy riding my bike.

How about a fabric sling? I found it way more versatile than a carrier for my two as you can wear it in so many ways. It was comfortable for long walks as it doesn’t create pressure points and could also be used as a blanket for the car or on a picnic

You could also add the philosophers of the Enlightenment such as Immanuel Kant, David Hume and Charles Darwin. They’re known for their advancement of Western “civilisation” but it has come at a huge cost to non white ethnicities as everyone else is branded stupid, thieving…

A lot of their theories are wrong however, but most people still believe it has some truth as perpetuating lies is beneficial to the ruling class (white males)

Daenerys and Jon are too obvious, I think it might be Arya who will be queen, there were a few hints seeded tonight

Cool! I’m definitely up for another one but I’m not sure I’ll be able to make it this Saturday. I hope the weather’s better this time, it was fuuuuuun though 😂

I find it really difficult to get clothing and bikes to fit, at only 5’2 I’m at the smaller end of the scale. I’m currently riding a small fs Boardman but when my feet are on the ground my crotch is on the top bar, the reach is also a bit long and the handlebars were too wide. I bought mine with professional advice but I’d recommend trying before you buy

@chewkw I’ve been looking for sharpening stones for a while, admittedly not very hard but I’d rather buy locally than online. It would certainly be handy if I took up whittling, but I wouldn’t want to give the neighbours any ideas

@siromj that sounds like it’s addictive, it’s tempting (and I can’t injure myself)