Geronimo. I think you'll find that Islam as a religion believes that all things on earth are created as a problem for humans to find a solution to. Infact in the infancy of this religion there were many scientific discoveries made and built from the greek and roman philosiphers (namely human physiology). Shame times have changed really.

Science is

"I think this is how it works and now I'll test to see"

If its proved to wrong we could just keep going and going until we find the right answer or people forget why we were looking in the first place and then pretend what we found is what we were looking for. 😀

toys19 – us scientists.

I said scientists not atrophysisits, just like toys19

Lifer so you agree god did create man? 😀 How did you know I got the minutes. It took alot of digging but it was worth it.

olly that is my point.

Lifer. See the entire thread. At no point does any 'scientist' go um yeah I suppose we could be wrong but we like to look for the sake of it? Its all very absolute and uncompromising, much like religion.

All this shows is your total lack of understanding of what you're talking about. What exactly do you think physicists have been doing for the last 50 years?

How? They have been colliding sub attomic particle close to the spped of light to find other sub attomic particles to complete this model yet all the time they were looking for the higgs boson and found some other stuff instead? At which point they said hmm were not near finding it. Shall we give up? No this model must be right we've spent 50 years not quite being able to prove it so we'll build an even bigger collider so that we can get afew fractions of a percent closer to the speed of light to actually find it. What if we don't find it? Well at that point its time to build a yet bigger collider until we do. What if we never find it? We keep buiding until the whole world is a collider and then surely we will find it. What if we don't? Are you a none believer? Kill him!

Or something like that.

No but there is a theory out there that can't be proved untl the higgs boson is found and then all the answers are asked then it all stops and the physisits go to their rocking chairs and polish their torroid transformers?

Lifer in theory I agree except for the fact that astro physisists can only be open minded when they want to be. When some one questions what they are looking at it suddenly becomes absolute. ie toy19 gets taken to china town and then throws his toys from the pram.

People have been looking for god for well over 2000 years does this mean that he does exist then?

So ratinalising something does exist beause its the only way to complete this model and then not finding it and then just saying well it must because of this current model of elementary particles which has stood up for 50 years before hand and we wouldn't want to rock the boat or think outside the box because all of this hard work comes undone. That actually sounds alot like religion to me.

I have called it both. I think Higgs Boson sounds better. It could be a trick shot in snooker 😀

So in 50 years of experimentation it hasn't been found . So do you create a new model or keep looking and keep looking until you find something that vaguley resembles what you want then hurrah you have almost created a religion. If you still don't find it you build an even bigger churc, I mean collider until you do find it. What happens if the hadron colider doesn't work will that mean a new model will be created or someone will build an even bigger collider? I think number 2

Lifer I was joking, I do believe you . My point wasn't whether the higgs boson exists or not it was aboout looking for answers, and in that sense there really isn't much difference between religion and science. Except for the fact that science builds huge circular place of worship and the anglican church builds cross shaped places of worship. Plus you can drink in a church I don't think you can drink whilst operating the hadron colider.

Lifer, what do you do for a job? Look uo what some people once said? 😀

Appart for the looking for something that doesn't exist. Like hmmm the higgs boson?

I also thought quantum physics explained the same thing existing twice using photons. Light can therefore behave has a particle and a wave. I remember an experiment with an plate and some kind of device where by if light were a wave changing the intensity would mean changing the frequency hence taking it out of the visible spectrum whereas if light were a particle changing the intensity ment more particles hitting the plate. Hence light can exist as a particle and a wave, allowing one photon it to be diffracetd into two points of light.

You call it the FSM or god it doesn't make any difference. I've never heard of that and the fact that athiest have a theory of a FSM basically means that they do believe in god they just don't want to call it god because then they're accepting religious teachings, mostly because of a need to be subversive not because of any true desire to find understanding of anything. Its the most absurd counter argument. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't nhiedls bhor and einsten both very religious. So much so that einstein married his own cousin and I was of the belief that to be that inbread you had to be religious. As for proving something that does exist like the god particle? People believe it exsts so much they look for it, then they can't find it so they rationalise about it. It sounds alot like religion to me. Reminds me of an episode of the tick where scientists discovered that light wasn't the fastest thing in the universe lint was, why? Because its already there when you get your jeans out of the washing machine.

Also DK i think quantum physics is no more bs than relligion in this sense. How could god create him self as himself on earth yet somehow be his own son who doesn't know who he is and then a ghost comeback to life when he comes back to life and then talk to someone as a real person but be a ghost who is god who is his son whos is a ghost made of orange with a candle on top and a bit of red ribon around the middle?

Molgrips I'm sorry I confussed religion and creationism. I did mean religion, I do accept that creatiosm as a form of fundamentalist christianity is wrong. I did mean the story of creation in the bible aka christianity.

I don't know. Thats my point. I'm not even saying he/it is there. I'm just pointing out that science can't prove everything it just show how much more there is to learn. Could god be the universe? Could god be the point of matter that existed before the big bang? I don't know, I'm not paid to find out I just think having an open mind is the most important thing. Saying something is the deffinative answer surely is unscientific.

Toys 19 aren't they trying to find that answer to what happened before the big bang in the hadron colider? The higgs Boson or the 'God Particle'. What happens when they (if they do) find that? Another question is asked and the whole thing is started up again. You can't ever find a deffinitive answer to whether god exists or not because it is faith that drives the desire to believe in him/it. All you do is push the understanding of what gods role in all of this is further away. Just like in Hitch Hickers Guide to the Galaxy. The bable fish is conclusive proof that god exists but because gor requires faith to exist he disapears in a puff of logic or something. Like someone said earlier in the post there is no evedence either way. There never will be. No matter how many small building blocks to the universe you find there will always be something else to look for. I also think the point you made is what dedly darcy was eluding to. There was a point of super dense and super hot matter then it exploded creating the universe after 1 secon hydrogen was created etc. The point is how did the super hot super dense bit of matter get there. Had it always been there just suspended floating around in nothing or did a higher power go I create this ball of super hot super dense matter and when I click my fingers (or blow my celestial whistle) you explode into the universe creating all things that exist in it and deny all things within it an inate understanding of what it is they are doing and/or why.

lifer when you said ouch after my post. I just thought I'd be nice and a bit stupid.

Tru dat

Lifer. Its love really.

I don't know about that just the church that the queen is the boss of. Lifer a book having bad things happening in it doens't make it bad now does it? Are journalists who document wars bad? By your definition I would guess so. Just out of curiosity lifer do you have any published works in the big bang. Hows your research going. Discovered any black holes, or for that matter the god particle I'm guessing you've got a cup of coffee resting on that little treat and you'll bring it out when the hadron colider doesn't work.

+1 JB

Fair point T19. Also I have been christened into the anglican chirch never been though. Except when I was in scouts and we had to go for Easter.

Lifer I don't really what you are asking me to prove? When you say good book what do you mean. I think the pearl is a good book. So is war of the worlds.

Graham you truly are a full weigh ar$e dk has never actually said he believed in god nor that he practiced religion. He is playing the devils advocate with his argument.

ply it out first.

I didn't say god made us to do anything. I just think that the belief that everything bad that happens is conclusive evidence that god doesn't exist is pretty dumb.

I think the point is relligion is used as a form of propaganda, to quote G.W. Bush 'we are going to conduct a crusade'.

I think you'll find mr toys 19 that God gave us the choice for right and wrong when adam and eve ate from the forbidden tree (possibly before that I'm not that down with my religious scriptures). I think that it is completely nieve to say god doesn't exist because of suffering. He gave us the choice we just make the wrong ones alot (btw I don't believe in the physical manfestation of a god that can intervene in our world). Its not the bible that is bad its the people that choose to use it to control and corrupt people. Also DK you can copy it on to a word doc and take it to a t-shirt printer if you want, I might. 😆

Yiu are very belittling. People are entighteled to their own opinions whether you agree or not. I never said that I do believe in the holy trinity at any point. Nor that I believe in God. I just pointed out that science doesn't no can't offer all the answers and in my opinion looking down you nose at peoples alternative views on God/origins of every thing science has yet to explain makes you as bad as a fundamental christian who does believe in creationism. Every answer will only lead to more questions so 'God' if you will, will always be elusive. No matter how many questions you answer. Nor how many people you have distain for because they don't just accept what you say as gospel. Also smoking crack is very condusive to Catholosism because you can do it and then repent. Just like child buggary.

why do people just do that on forums read a sentence then form an opinion. If you read the whole post you would see that I disagree with the war, I feel that by taking people and training them in a way that generates a certain response is the fault of the politicians not the soldiers. It isn't the soldiers fault they have been trained in that way. It is the politicians fault that they have broken the geneva convention to invade a country. The soldiers aren't to be held responsible for how they are trained nor for which conflicts they are sent to. And yes there is right and wrong in this case but obviously you're too far up your own ar$e to read on so I'll not write my opionion in future because no matter what I write you'll just select a small part edit it and then get on your high horse.

No because you try and belittle peoples opinions on an internet forum. 😆

Your life would be better if you smoked crack though.

evolution explains VERY VERY accurately how life adapts to it's environment. With a planet stuffed full of evidence all of which confirming it.

Mate I did actually write that in my post. You just cherry picked what you want to try and make me look silly but this is a forum and I think you will find that a forum is a public meeting or assembly for open discussion. Besides I also wrote that I d believe in evolution so what exactly do you prove by agreeing with me on that point?

I think its fair to say there is no right or wrong in this case. It's not the soldiers fault they have been shipped out to a war that basically breaks the geneva convention. We are an imperiallistic foriegn force in someone elses country, the soldiers shooting aren't accountable its the people that sent them there. I think the reason no one wants the general public to see operational footage is because thre vast majority of people would be appauled that we are allowing our soldiers and our money to be frivolously wasted like a bag of rice at a wedding. Are we really being protected from global terrorism or are we threatening people who can't really fight us fairly? I have to say I for one am not surrprised that they play dirty, making it harder for soldiers to differentiate between civilian and miltia. If we sent our politicians in with guns no air support etc the war wouldn't have lasted this long and we could go back to normal and we wouldn't have wasted billions of public money which it now turns out we didn't have in the first place for what is basically totally unjustified.

I don't believe in creationism and do think that evolution is the best current description of how life on Earth has developed. This doesn't however make it true. Alot of people on this forum always say that science doesn't allow for true or false answers, it is all hypothesis and evolution is the best hypoyhosis for what evedence we currently have. Also I feel I have to point out although evolution may best describe the mechanism for how life has come to be how it is on Earth now it doesn't really explain how on earth it started. What was the mechanism driving life starting up? What was the mechanism driving the big bang. These processes that are currently happening ie evolution a constantly expanding universe only go as far as expalining what is currently happening or has happened in the past it doesn't explain how any of it started. I also think its worth pointing out you can believe in both creationism and evolution for this very reason. Evolution rationalises the current understanding of the world around us. It doesn't rationalise nor can it how it all began. If you don't take the bible literally then it isn't so daft. Some people just like looking down from their high horse.

building the underground (bmx)
hammertime (mtb)
dorkin (bmx)
all the sprungs
all the earthed's
finally