Why, do I have to leave if I am? As it happens I’ve got no time for the man. But that’s how I see what has happened here.

Tough one. The military comes out at 0.9%, which is very good. Complete equality in pay, no loss of seniority on maternity, most of the gap comes from very senior officers who started their careers when women weren’t able to reach those heights, so time should correct it. But it masks only about 14% of personnel being female. I think we’re actually less equal than the headline figure suggests.

But when you listen to it, it’s his normal rambling chat. It’s much less clear than it looks there. I think it’s plausible that he was conflating the scientist confirming the identity of the nerve agent with the supporting evidence of its origin.

Re the FO’s tweets, possibly a bit of institutional confusion there too, ie person running the social media believing Porton had confirmed the source. There’s not many scientifically trained folk in our institutions, more’s the pity!

I think BoJo was muddled and ambiguous in his language, as is his wont, rather than lying outright. He has certainly played into the Russians’ hands though; a little more confusion, discord and division!

Gives a whole new meaning to Death by Chocolate 😆

Don’t think that’s right TJ. In the military, we’re taught that you can shoot someone if you have an honest and reasonable belief they’re endangering your life or someone else’s, and there’s no other way to prevent it. The intention is to kill in self defence. This is under civil self defence law, the only difference for military personnel is being authorised to carry a firearm. Substitute the Knife in this case.

edit Koogia has it right above if my understanding is correct.

But you can intentionally kill someone in self defence?

The requisite mental element of the offence of murder is to intend to kill or intend to cause GBH.

Except in self defence?

PD refute BoJo’s clear claim about a Russian origin, other “evidence” of an intel nature may exist but for us on the outside it is just speculation.

Well, I believe it’s only known to have been made in Russia/Soviet Union, plus their previous, plus timing.  All circumstantial but lots of it!

The test for using lethal force iirc is that you honestly and reasonably believed your life to be in danger and there was no other way to remove the danger. Jury are likely to be pretty sympathetic on that one.

I think if you wanted to be generous to BoJo, you could say that his muddled mode of speech caused confusion. Looking at the transcript, you could interpret it as the scientist told him it was definitely Novichok. Definitely not a straightforward “caught deliberately and knowingly lying” scenario.

Slightly?

But tj, nobody (nutters aside) is saying JC is personally an anti-Semite, they are (opportunistically and hypocritically in many cases) saying the party has a problem with it and the leadership hasn’t done enough to address it.

Junkyard, regarding the hypocrisy charge, I heard someone say the Tory party has at least as much of a problem with “isms” on the Spectator podcast of all places! It seems to me the rapid expansion has hoovered up a lunatic fringe, unsurprisingly!

The comments from Porton just reflect what zokes was saying at the time, they can prove it’s Agent X but it’s nigh-on impossible to prove it came from Russia. That analysis comes from other sources, looks pretty likely to be Russia even with just the open source stuff.

Level 3 seems to be the worst of all worlds. At least with level 2 you get regular warnings and wake up calls and need to interact with the controls on a regular basis. Level 3 you get nothing until there is an issue. (or until after the issue has been and gone and is now a huge problem.)

This times a lot. It’s a big human factors fail to expect someone with nothing to do to stay alert and focused. I’d imagine you’re all “eyes on stalks” at first, but after 1000 uneventful miles, you’re clearly on your phone.

From a consumer point of view, it also doesn’t deliver what I’d want from an autonomous car, which is transporting me while working/sleeping/drunk. If I’ve still got to sort of drive but not, what’s the point of me buying one?

Started 17, now 50-something. Few years ago I belayed my mate to the top of the wall, took his weight at the clips …and realised I’d threaded the Grigri the wrong way. I was the dick that day. Take whatever learning you want from that.

Yup, experience is no barrier to having a brain fart, as Molgrips was saying. It can actually make you worse if complacency creeps in! I believe one of the worst scenarios is being experienced but out of practice and currency, ie me!

Lots of very interesting human factors/error management chat on this thread! I guess it boils down to whether locking systems introduce complexities or difficulties in use that mean that, in real-world use, the flawed human in the system  takes a shortcut which makes them MORE dangerous than a conventional device? Seen all the time in aviation where the “safer” procedure or equipment wasn’t followed/used because it was a pain in the arse!

I used to use a GriGri for sport climbing and (string me up) I would hold the cam down when the leader needed rapid slack, because it was a PITA otherwise. I had self-briefed action on a fall, but I think an ATC would probably have been safer! Though not as good for holding him on his many rests…..

I initially thought that image was doctored and that it didn’t look good for the BBC, but looking again I <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>think</span> it’s an illusion caused by the horizontal line in the “Russian” picture that intersects just below the crown of the hat? The individual lines on the outline all look the same to me.

Feel for you buddy, been there! +1 to what Ewan said; get it done quick then on to pastures new. There’s a lot of value in being the bigger man and surviving with dignity. In my case, my ex filed (after having an affair) citing unreasonable behaviour, which DID get my back up! If this happens to you, don’t worry, it’s just a means to an end and nobody else should see it.  Best of luck….

EDIT there’s got to be room for a nice new bike and holiday to come out of your share and still have a deposit on a new place?

Edit 2: For pensions etc, if no kids, clean break consent order means neither of you have a future claim.

I’d imagine aluminium will be fine. I’d be much too scared to drill carbon. I drilled my Five over a year ago just in front of the forward shock mount, turned out that’s where Orange put it on the newer models too! No issues, but it’ll obviously void your warranty….

Anyone worked out whhich already-banned, xenophobic, europhobic troll is now posting as Raybanwomble?

STW, supporting alternative viewpoints since…..oh.

You couldn’t, but that’s against the context of Russian doctrine of deniability, see Ukraine, cyber attacks, online subversion etc. The whole MO is designed so you can’t prove it’s them. In that context, limited diplomatic measures seem reasonable.

Frankly it would be a much better use of the money if the NHS’s budget was 10x that of the military

It’s more like a quarter of the NHS budget.

scotroutes

Subscriber
That’s why he sends his jets into our airspace and not the EU’s.

You do know that’s bollocks, yeah?

I suspect it’s more an accident of geography than a deliberate policy.

If a full attack of chemical weapons was to hit the U.K. (pure speculation here) the U.K. would naturally be for retaliation. Fighting chemical weapons with an aircraft carrier with no planes on is only conceived by imbeciles, those chemical weapons that the U.K. has the capability of replication would be the only option available, or waving a white flag make out of the last white lab coat unaffected.

Same as the US, it’s a WMD attack. Our response is potentially nuclear. Or conventional, depending on the scenario. Also it would invoke Article 5. It’s one of the things NATO and the Nuclear deterrent is supposed to deter!

You’re getting there. Who are armed and supported by…….?

[awaits a link showing in 1964 Britain sold them a Bren gun, some silly hats and some rubber bullets….]

Harare.

more robust targeting policy

Everyone they target must be a jihadist/terrorist because if they wern’t western powers wouldn’t be targeting them

Correct, well done.

Anyhow, we know Porton was testing chemical weapons on humans up to around 1989 and even if the human testing has stopped you’d have to be very naive to think there is no chemical weapons capability in the UK.

Porton don’t deny having chemical weapon stocks, it’s on their website! As people are pointing out with increasing weariness, research stocks that’s not the same thing as having the capability and intent to use them as weapons.

Britain, France and the uSA have also been supporting Assad with air strikes, Binners. It’s just that they don’t admit that bombing “jihadists” fighting against Assad is effectively supporting Assad even if Assad said he was agaisnt the British strikes (no doubt knowing that being critical of the British plans made the strikes more likely).

Well, they’re not using chemical weapons, have more accurate weapons and a somewhat more robust targeting policy.

How were things in the French Army 100 years ago Ed? I’d say that’s about as relevant.

Binners is right. If we wanted to use them as weapons, where’s the distribution and storage, where are the trained troops and delivery mechanisms? You can’t **** up with this stuff, if you don’t know what you’re doing you’ll kill more of your own side!

‘This was a false flag’ says arsehole who thinks everything is a f**king false flag

Not aimed at you personally yunki, just the article makes me laugh!

You’re right that more tends to come out in the wash, but I can’t think of an example where it transpired that the heads of Govt arranged it all over dinner!

Good post Kelvin.

edit: and fuzzywuzzy

Well im sure that officially we dont do those kind of weapons, but as its all top secret stuff, who knows?

Portion hold research stocks. If [tinfoil hat on] that’s just a front, nobody I’ve ever met in the military is trained to handle them or use them, we don’t have a delivery mechanism, how do we transport and store them. Imagine we were trying to hide our nuclear capabilities, not terribly credible. Occam’s razor suggests that actually Porton is….a research establishment.

Portion Down doesn’t have an offensive role, we don’t “do” chemical, biological or radiological. £40m is peanuts, I’d imagine that’s a scheduled refit that someone has decided to announce given events this week.

Its just odd, what gives a countries leader more support by the public than a conflict with another country and who needs that support right now regarding internal issues.

Are you talking about May or Putin?

A radioactive isotope is one thing (if it really was Russia) but a nerve agent raises the stakes in that it breaks international laws. If you were Vlad would you do that? When it’s so easy to kill people in so many other ways.

Bumping people off in other countries breaks international law outside of the law of armed conflict, however you do it. That’s why the PM’s words were carefully chosen the other day. Why indeed kill people in ways with the state’s fingerprints all over them? Why not fake a mugging gone wrong, car accident etc? Unless you’re an ageing autocrat in charge of a kleptocracy, trying to send a message to enemies foreign and domestic? Bit more plausible than Bond villains in hollowed out volcanoes, no?

We do have countermeasures for nerve agent, it’s Just that you need to be expecting to be attacked with it!

in which this substance might get into the hands of someone not acting for the Russian state

They really ought to have noticed if some has gone missing!