I used to dream of having a Jupiter Ace when I was a kid as I loved the idea of programming in FORTH.

One for sale on ebay for £899 the other day 😯

I got an emulator for my mac instead. 😀

he doesn’t come across like a epicene, lisping, IT consultant

1. Ta, didn’t know what epicene meant, now I do.
2. OI! I’M AN IT CONSULTANT!

Kindly thtop inthulting uth! 🙂

Nothing I have tried has worked, really. Bitumen may do it. 😀

@chewkw – you going to tell Norway it’s all hunky-dorey and they can do whatever they want then or shall I? Lucky they have all that oil money.

Oh yes, we can grow ‘balls’ as you say and dictate the terms. Good luck with that one. Germany want to keep us in the EU but not at any cost and they are very powerful within it.

If we leave the EU it won’t be a bed of roses and people skipping through the streets. We’ll be outside the decision-making and the rest of the EU, which has generally seen the UK as a pain in the rear, will turn the knife.

Although I predict that when the referendum is done there will be a hell of a lot of jingoism about WW2.

Mark, think about the guy who starts his own business.

What, you mean…. like Mark, who started his own business? Called Singletrack/GoFar?

Norway is not a part of the EU.

Norway has to pay an awful lot to the EU to sell their stuff there. They have to pay towards and follow all the EU safety mandates, their design requirements, the lot. And they have no say in them either, since they are not EU members.

That’s what will happen if we leave. We’ll get a very frosty reception from France/Germany for a generation or so and then we’ll still have to give over a wodge of cash every so often to sell our goods there. Highly unlikely to be free trade between us, even if it is the other EU countries just giving us the snub.

For that reason, I’m ‘in’.

Before I sign off and do some real work, I’d like to remind all the tories here:

IT’S ALL YOUR FAULT WE NOW HAVE TO KEEP KATIE HOPKINS IN THIS COUNTRY.

Talk about dominatrix-fetishes, I reckon that’s the only reason they vote that way! 😉

As seen on twop twips:

ENJOY a fabulous 3D ‘Dickensian Britain’ experience by simply looking out of your window.

Wonder when those billions of welfare cuts are going to be announced? If it is child benefit I expect a load of right-wing whining to start.

Was that the same memo that told us about the double dip recession and a million more unemployed?

And the million use food banks, the deaths of poor people due to benefits sanctions and the like.

Still, eh, Gideon Osbourne has said he wanted another term to “finish the job”. So I must therefore guess that in 2020, around this time of year the state of the country will be one as they say in biblical terms “a land flowing with milk and honey”?

It will be interesting to live in this utopia which is due to appear. When do you think we’ll see the first fruits of this wonderful society emerge?

Wasn’t It was supposed to be fecked after the first five years?

Didn’t you get the memo? It is.

Silver linings – the evil Esther McVey has gone. 😀

patronising dramatics. The petulant equivalent of a toddler banging their fists on the floor in the frozen food isle because mummy didnt buy any ice cream.

Not so sure. Cameron due to his negative campaigning has backed himself into a corner – his anti-SNP rhetoric will feed into the anti-English Scots and the anti-Scots English and he has promised an in/out EU referendum to appease his extreme right-wing.

The UK could look an awful lot different in five years’ time.

I use my chromebook all the time. I wish it had a bit more oomph (Exynos ARM processor I think it’s called) but since I log into Google I can use documents etc. wherever I browse which is useful.

I am looking for a new laptop though for astrophotography, most likely a core i5 jobby. The numbers of devices out there is pretty confusing.

I think it is interesting that with the mainly very-pro-tory press flinging absolutely everything, including the kitchen sink, at Miliband the polls don’t seem to be moving much. I await tomorrow’s Sun saying he eats royal babies while dancing naked wrapped in the Saltire invoking demons to come out of his bum.

On the whole I think that’s a good thing, regardless of party as it shows the papers don’t really have the power we think they do. Perhaps they are just echo chambers.

Unless of course Miliband would be way ahead if it wasn’t for them.

I always love the rhetoric that comes about with elections.

“If X gets in the country is destroyed”
“If Y gets in the country has gone to the dogs”

What a load of tosh. If the Tories/Labour get in on Friday then we won’t vanish into a black hole. The world will keep turning.

Saying that, if the Tories get in then a lot of poor people are going to get a whole lot poorer.

Here’s[/url] the link. Remember it is a US site for US laws. He’s just done a really good discussion about US copyright trolls ‘Prenda Law’ and their attempts to extort people out of money by claiming they’d downloaded pr0n.

The problem I have is that being offended is something you choose to be not something that someone gives you. I would imagine that most muslims regarding the cartoon thing just shrugged their shoulders and thought “Useless tossers!”. The word ‘offended’ has got too much power. Unfortunately with the ‘rednecks’ in the states the power of free speech cuts both ways. Perhaps they are offended by being called rednecks. Dunno, but in the same way they can draw images of the religious icon their opposites can draw pictures of Ayn Rand being a communist or something.

The problem with a “legitimate” criticism of, say, Christianity (to take the islam out of it) is that person A could say “I don’t think Jesus existed or that if he was he was actually God personified.” This, in my view, is a legitimate criticism, especially if backed up with some facts. If the pope, say, then got really offended by it do we then backpedal? In Islam that Mohammed chappie took on a child bride. This gets a lot of flack with some people calling him the p-word. As a result some Muslims are furious about that. Should that be banned?

I think we can all agree that the universal law should be “Don’t be a dick”. Unfortunately people on all sides continue to be so and therefore some laws have to be fixed down. I disagree with the people drawing cartoons but I believe they do have the right to do so; other people (“artists”) have done things like Piss-Christ (I think it’s a crucifix in a jar of urine – oh here it is on wikipedia and I would guess some from other religions). If everyone just ignored them they would go away. It is a bit like those threads where people would deliberately wind up TJ then sit back and watch the fireworks.

And I’m thinking 650b for my next bike!

You can criticise the idea that not drawing cartoons of the prophet is stupid , idiotic, and unenforceable.

Agreed. You can agree with any idea. Or disagree. Up to you.

What you are arguing is the freedom to do the thing rather than to criticise the thing.

If you mean ‘doing the thing’ means “Drawing an image of a religious icon” then yes, I do advocate those that want to do it should do so. Else some other person will say something like “Criticising 29ers is OK, but if you make a sign or something like a statue criticizing 29ers then that’s wrong.”

For example if you didn’t like the government of the day and say so fine, but ‘doing the thing’ and organising a protest is wrong?

It is not the same thing

It is – writing something about an idea is the same as saying it. In this case it was drawing something.

As for free speech how far would you let someone promote the sexual abuse of children in pursuit of free speech?

That’s incitement – not even the US allow that. But full marks at the trying to make me out as a child rape supporter routine. Come on JY, you’re a better man than that. 🙁

Rape ?

Incitement. Though look at “50 shades of grey” which many feminists have stated is a book about abuse not about a consenting BDSM relationship. I haven’t read but I’ll take their word for it. On literotica there are stories about non-consent. If you were to say, however, “I’m going to rape person X” then that is a threat which is not protected here.

Hate preaching?

In the UK that is against the law. In the US it is not (see: Westboro nutters).

Advice on bomb making.

I’m a chemist, don’t need to know that. Already know it, but it would be messy and I’d end up dead due to bad skillz. You’ll easy find that on the internet, along with how to make an atomic bomb. Again in the US it is free speech, but I guess the police keep a keen eye out. I was taught the structure and rough outline of semtex explosives at college. Should that be banned?

All of these freedoms of speech are curtailed.

In different countries there are different rules. I’m mainly talking about the subject, the US shootings.

Freedom of speech is not an absolute it has to be weighed against other things.

That’s very vague JY. “other things” What other things? Someone getting offended about religion? How about someone getting offended about breastfeeding? How about someone getting offended about politics?

Yes, freedom of speech has to be weighed against harm to others BUT the moment we start saying “you can’t say X as it has offended Y and Y may then kill/hurt someone” then the list gets bigger and bigger until you can’t say anything.

I suggest you read the popehat link. It is very interesting. He’s a pro-bono lawyer who deals with all sorts of stuff.

Your turn to answer now:

Do you support banning/curtailing free speech:

For religions (e.g. criticism of christianity/islam/buddhism etc.) also known as blasphemy, such as in this case where idiots drew some cartoons of someone who either didn’t exist or died a long long time ago?
For criticising the ruling monarch?
For criticising the ruling goverment?
For criticising 29″ wheels?
For certain political doctrines (any, whatever you fancy).

Libel curtails free speech: you can’t print anything you like without consequences.

Your point, caller? Free speech means you can say what you like, having to deal with the consequences of it are another issue. Something milder: “All 29″ wheel owners are idiots!” Does someone reacting to that with something like “No, you’re being horrible!” mean my free speech is curtailed? All libel is doing is involving lawyers. The *threat* of lawyers can cause self-censorship, but that’s another area.

The thing in the states about the cartoons *is* extremely well-defined in their first amendment. No ifs, no buts, a very narrow view of what isn’t protected free speech. In the UK there are laws that curtail free speech in certain areas, I agree that’s the truth. On this issue though, I’m with the US and my line is “Don’t attack people (unless they deserve it – Jimmy Saville anyone?) but ideas – go for it, I don’t care.”

An interesting aside from a US-based lawyer on this specific issue. There are only a few areas in the US that ‘free speech’ is curtailed.

popehat[/url]

(To your response: no, libel doesn’t curtail free speech, it just makes [in the UK] someone justify their statements or be held liable, and the ‘attacking…’ part is my personal belief, which again does not curtail free speech but there may be laws in different countries which apply).

@Northwind, you are giving “the press” too much power and credit. The vast majority of people don’t read a newspaper. Miliband comes across poorly on TV which is where most people see and hear politicians, the TV companies run a clip of him speaking and that’s when/where people form an opinion

Which I guess would mean that people think that Miliband comes across the same as Cameron then, since they’re neck-and-neck?

@ransos

So if I printed homophobic lies about you on the front page of a national newspaper, and encouraged shopkeepers to not serve you because you’re gay, you’d be ok with that?

If they were lies about me that would be libel and I would have access to the courts for reparation. Remember that the eejits in Texas were not attacking a person they were attacking an idea. My views/beliefs are not sacrosanct. If someone wishes to challenge them fine, I may even change my mind. Same for everyone else.

Attacking a person (muslim/christian/atheist/gay/white/black etc.) is wrong.
Attacking an idea (religious/political etc.) is not wrong. There should never be a belief that cannot be criticized, regardless of how much a person believes in it. If you’re offended by your belief being criticized then I point back up to Stephen Fry’s article: tough, stop whining, support it with facts.

And yes – that has already been done many many many times, in my lifetime (attacking gay people), including loss of jobs at interviews and comments from people around me. I slap down personal attacks but if someone says “I don’t like the gays” then I think they are an idiot and ignore them.

I’m with carbonfiend with this one.

Freedom of speech means freedom to offend. As a gay bloke I have had tons of abuse (especially from religious nutters) but it’s their right to say what they want, as long as they don’t come after me with big sticks.

As Stephen Fry said:

I’ve crossed my willy for you. And so has my wife*. 🙂

Good luck Bullheart!

(*-may not be true, either the willy or the wife bit)

@jambalaya – fullfacts.org (non-political) has the data and analysis here. Not that this is just for the Trussel Trust; there are more foodbanks out there which are not managed by them and no data is available.

fullfacts.org

It is still disgraceful that one of the richest countries in the world has this happening.

Also, even if the Tories do get first dibs at a government there is no stopping say Labour + other parties voting down everything they put up.

EDIT: That wikipedia chap, wasn’t Grant Shapps under another name, was it? 😀

I didn’t realise Bradford was illegal. When did that happen?

@mike, Whilst I agree that any venture needs team work and contributions from many people from and economics/taxation perspective this isn’t true. At the extreme all the “lower paid jobs” could be outsourced abroad.

Eh? How would street cleaners and the like get outsourced abroad? Wouldn’t UKIP’s collective forehead vein explode if thousands/millions of people turn up at the ports each day?

@jambalaya

@Adam you haven’t noticed bankers leaving, do you actually follow this ? How would you notice ? As someone who’s been in Finance for nearly 30 years I can tell you many bankers have left the country post the financial crises mostly as the number of jobs has declined markedly, some have left for tax reasons after the top rate when to 50%. If you look at the number of non-doms it peaked around 2006/7, I strongly suspect the number has fallen as banking jobs have been lost.

To be honest, I haven’t noticed. That’s the whole point. I haven’t noticed.

Let them leave. It is wrong that a government keeps hitting the poorest to pay for the richest.

1. They don’t avoid any tax on UK income.

Which is no doubt minimised via tax havens to reduce any tax they do pay.

2. 5,000 of the 115,000 pay an annual fee instead of tax on income earned outside of the UK. These people typically own substantial businesses / investments outside of the UK.

So about 4.3% then. Oh dear. How sad. Never mind.

3. If we force the 5,000 to pay full tax on their investments outside of the UK the odds are most will move to another country where they don’t need to.

BINGO! Used every single time. I haven’t noticed swathes of bankers leaving the country of late. It won’t happen.

4. The 5,000 pay around £8.2B in tax. If Ed Millband is right we can take away non dom status and they will all stay – it’s an unknown if the income tax on offshore investments will be greater than the amount collected through the annual charge. If Ed Milliband is wrong, some / all will move and we will not only lose the £8.2B, we will also lose the income tax they earn on UK earnings.

DOUBLE BINGO!

Lets face it, their overseas earnings will be held by company A which is owned by company B etc… which is owned by some tax haven.

I’m thinking of joining this lot:

we will drive them to the airport[/url]

They can add the non-doms to that list

Leaving to go to Glyncorrwg on early Friday morning, popping over to do White’s Level then settling into the Bryn Bettws cabins then perhaps Final Descent of Y Wal.

Then Saturday may be ‘Blades’ or even ‘Skyline’ if I feel like it, leaving the cabins and going across W2 route,. Sunday (after pub dinner in Collier’s Arms on Saturday night) will most probably be Penhydd before relaxing and either coming back on Monday direct or via Cwmcarn.

😀

Is disappoint.

Mate of mine’s wife gambled away all of their joint savings on online bingo. They were both contractors and had built up a nice fund of £200k. It all went plus another £25k on credit cards.

They tried to work it out but eventually got divorced; it forced them apart. Very sad. I think she just couldn’t stop herself. The problem is that even if you do things like block access on the router etc. a 3G phone will still get through and I bet the gits who run these things have apps to make it easier to throw away your money.

I’ve always been weird with gambling. I only ever gamble if I know I’m going to win. That is, never.

I think this chap needs to talk to his other half for help if he’s so far gone he can’t stop himself as he’ll need help and distraction. Otherwise the partner will end up with a hell of a surprise (like my mate) when a bill arrives (in this case a massive credit card bill).

I wanted the egg custard. Git.

Am in NATS and our membership is fairly healthy.

We do have a secret weapon though: cake at the end of the ride. We rarely if ever go to the pub afterwards as most people are driving. We have quite a few people on the faceache page who aren’t members and chat but we keep an eye on membership, a couple of rides for non-members then join.

MrAdamW is in Derbyshire Cave Rescue (DCRO). From the claustrophobic side to the extreme exposure side that is Titan, near Castleton.

I last did caving in Yorkshire, going through the Cheese Press was too much for me. 🙂

Strange thing, depression. I *think* I have depression but I guess it will take a doc to work it out.

I’m sleeping generally OK but I have absolutely no interest in anything that I used to be excited by. Everything is flat, everything is grey. I feel as if someone was to give me £1m then I’d say ‘Meh’. I cannot think of anything I want to do now or in the future. I worry about everything and can’t see anything improving. Sort of ‘waiting for death’ and not caring about if and when it happens. 😕 I’ve been like this for many years. I’m concerned that if I see a doc and they say “Yes, it’s depression” I will have wasted so much life in this state. It just feels normal to me now.

When I was at college at the crux of coming out I used to get manic episodes which were bizarre. I’d descend into lethargy and tears over a few weeks and I wouldn’t know why and then something would happen – I’d hear a bit of Beethoven, see a bird in the sky, smell something nice and *POW* I’d be flipped and be crying because I was so happy and didn’t know why. This would last a few days before the descent into sadness again. Must have been depression/stress related. Once I came out they went away. The manic episodes were interesting though; I was full of energy on top of the world and I felt as if I could do *anything*.

I am wondering what would have happened to the producer if he’d actually seen red and battered Clarkson to a pulp in retaliation. Would he still have his job?

I see that the trolls on twitter have started issuing Oisin Wotsisname death threats. 😕

As a ever-so-slightly interesting aside I live in a place where the mahoosive ASDA was rebuilt to an abso-effing-lutely mahoosive ASDA. At that point they put a parking levy in. There were machines where you put in a pound to get a ticket and the money would be refunded as you bought something in the shop.

AFter about three months they were removed. Most probably due to people not having the change and going to the massive Tesco across the road, along with the cost of checking cars in a very busy huge car park.

Then they tried barriers where you had to show a receipt for more than £4 spent in ASDA to a man in a box. That lasted about two months. I think they’ve gone to the Europarks type thing now.

People want free supermarket car-parks. If there was a charge of a few quid (up to a fiver, say) for overstaying (unless egregious such as a weekend or something) then most people wouldn’t complain.

@wanmankylung

That’s cos there are many different sizes and types of dog. There’s not that many types of humans; we don’t vary that much. Most probably drugs are more expensive too.

Apologies, I meant HTTP header.