Facebook linky about trail builders

The typical ‘Waverley Beat’ post gets about 12 replies. Currently over 700.

Seems like they poked the wasps nest. But to be honest their post is pretty low-handed.

How refreshing that most of the replies are supporting the trail builders 🙂
A few miseries are stopping a skatepark being built here, and guess what, they hate the very existence of anyone below retirement age.

people in surrey complaining everything is private, theres no pulic facilities and the council are skint? irony.

They are correct IMO

Digging trails on someones private land without permission is not on, it damages any attempts to get legal trails. It damages the image of our pastime.

Yep, got to agree with TJ, it’s private land and the land owner is legally liable if someone gets hurt and they knew about the existence of the jumps. Its counter productive.

Seems like they poked the wasps nest. But to be honest their post is pretty low-handed.

Cant see the replies but why is it low handed? Seemed like a well written post to me, to try and raise awareness about an issue.

Shouldn’t be happening, private land and id be complaining to the police if somebody started digging holes in my back garden 🤣 not to mention what would happen if somebody stacked it. Its not just a bit of cheeky riding through someones wood is it.

They are correct IMO

Digging trails on someones private land without permission is not on, it damages any attempts to get legal trails. It damages the image of our pastime.

Which is all well and good if you live somewhere with access to plenty of legal trail networks, or are lucky enough to own a car that can transport you to them. If you’re a teenager in the crowded south east of England where legal trails are thin on the ground and you don’t own a T5 you might have a different view.

I agree in principle. Dialogue, consent and enlightened landowners working with volunteer builders is the ideal. But those enlightened landowners aren’t always that common and kids don’t always have the contacts or nouse to do things legally. But at the end of the day engaging with them instead of trashing the trails and boasting about it on social media would have been better. It’s youngsters, riding bikes and getting exercise and not getting into serious mischief. Damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

That opening post does the police no favours whatsoever and has probably alienated a lot of kids where there was an opportunity to work with them, earn their respect and nudge them towards doing things properly.

people in surrey complaining everything is private, theres no pulic facilities and the council are skint? irony.

Hello Mr judgmental!

What @blokeuptheroad said 100%

Petulant post, especially the ‘what if they came and dug up your garden’  nonsense. Like that’s remotely the same thing but it shows the level of thinking prevalent within the force. The ‘guess what thats going too’ line also really brings the down the post and makes it obvious they are enjoying spoiling other peoples fun rather than simply upholding the law.

Engagement has always been shown to work miracles in these situations – rather than p!ss all over the local youth why not use this as an opportunity to build a rapport and maybe they might see a bit of a drop in other more serious issues in the neighbourhood

Let’s not forget that if nobody dared build illegal trails decades ago we wouldn’t be in our current privileged position. Being able to access so many official and not-quite-so-official trails in the present is built on the efforts of many folk in the past who did exactly this kind of work out in the woods.

My point exactly @blokeuptheroad!

Over a thousand replies now. The majority critical of the tone of the post. Just a massive PR disaster.

Had it been a supportive post it would have had about a dozen comments i suspect.

Hambledon is less than 3 miles to s4p, so hardly no dirt jumps in the area that kids can use. A cheeky trail is very different to a great big dirt jump with a trench dug in to the ground. Agree that it would be far more helpful to get the local council to provide land and support to build a pump track and bike park rather than just telling kids off

Now, I am sure some people will say ” leave them alone, while they are doing this they are not causing other issues”

1) What “other issues” are they insinuating that cyclists might cyclists be causing?

2) Note “I” not “we”. That isn’t Surrey Police collectively or even Waverley Police, that’s some random pleb who’s naively been given control of their Facebook account.

how would you like it

… as demonstrated by the professional use of language here.

How did all the land become private in the first place?

@sharkattack  I recommend The Book of Trespass by Nick Hayes.  Not only will it more than answer your question but its full of fantastic art as well.

Those woods aren’t someone’s back garden. Think it’s about time landowners had to justify why random bits of woodland are private and inaccessible. That said, I can see why those jumps could be dangerous and how that sort of digging is taking the piss without permission. But ultimately, can’t believe the police don’t have more important things to do. If it was a stolen bike, dangerous driving, dangerous dog, threats of violence, houses that stink of weed, they’d still be sat in their office firing spitballs at each other (maybe not in covid times). Obviously written by someone with a negative attitude towards cycling.

Lockdown has shown that there’s not enough public space and not enough options for people to recreate outside.
What do you expect people to do?
Additionally, it’s nice to see the police respond quickly to a bit of digging but if a bike gets stolen….
50% of UK land is owned by less than 1% of the population… we are going to see more of this.

Engagement works two ways.

As for illegal trailbuilders creating our pastime – utter pish. In the UK it started by people cycling on bridleways many years before the word mountainbike was thought of.

Sure if its a bit of plantation forestry and you are subtle there is little harm or if its just a rake the leaves type trail OK but digging jumps and pits – its bang out of order and the entitlement in those defending this is breathtaking

Pretty poorly worded post that, especially considering the times we are living in and what a load of bobbins it is currently being a teenager.

But a question to those that might know to either quash or confirm the urban myth……If I was a landowner and discovered that and did nothing about it then a third party rider (or maybe even the digger) hurt themselves am I liable in law currently? 2nd scenario; if I came across that, discovered who dug it, then gave them after the fact permission to keep it does that change my liability? Lastly, if I am liable what would the insurance likely cost me to cover it?

I guess answers to above might change how much sympathy I might have for the landowner – but regardless the post was very poorly worded.

reported for hate speach.

As for illegal trailbuilders creating our pastime – utter pish. In the UK it started by people cycling on bridleways many years before the word mountainbike was thought of.

Access to swathes of the English countryside occurred because of trespass.

its bang out of order and the entitlement in those defending this is breathtaking

Breathtaking? Really? It’s empathy, not entitlement. I don’t think I am “entitled” to build jumps on private land, nor would I do so. But then I’m a middle aged bloke with disposable income lucky enough to be surrounded by legal trails and the ability to travel to others.

But I can understand why kids with nowhere to ride might be tempted to. It’s not ideal and I’m not condoning it, but I can understand why they do it and I’m honest enough to admit were I in that position I might be tempted to do the same.

I totally get why private land owners can get a bit miffed with diggers and dirtjumpwankers can be the worst, especially if litter and antisocial behaviour is part and parcel though there is no evidence of that on the included photos.
There isn’t enough information about the location or history in the post to make an informed comment really, but it’s a shame that any engagement that may or may not have happened has failed, and once again some cheeky tykes have been moved on back to square one because every inch of this little island is “owned” by someone.

However you cut it though, is way outweighed by how much of a PR disaster this has turned into, so I’m currently just enjoying some community bobbies getting a ribbing. Bet they’re wishing they had kept their mouths shut with this one

Those woods aren’t someone’s back garden. Think it’s about time landowners had to justify why random bits of woodland are private and inaccessible

Why?

Do you want them to chop the trees down to stop kids digging a jump park?

As for the Access argument. Passing through access is one thing, digging is totally different. It’s comparable to the MXers who smash gates and fences down to access areas.

Local council could and should be quietly diverting these kids to their land and away from conflict. Plenty do on the quiet.

Access to swathes of the English countryside occurred because of trespass.

For people on foot, passing through, definitely not equipped with spades etc

For people on foot, passing through, definitely not equipped with spades etc

I’m pretty sure that mass trespass would’ve caused some damage.

Why?

Because huge areas of the countryside are off limits to the public in this country for no sensible good reason, just centuries old elitist selfishness. And I don’t mean to build dirt jumps like above, just access would be nice.

Do you want them to chop the trees down to stop kids digging a jump park?

Not entirely sure what you’re saying there but chopping trees down to block trails and jumps doesn’t work, is a lazy way of trying to sort things out and is bad for both the environment and the land owner’s business harvesting trees, if that’s what they do. What’s needed is engagement.

Take nothing but photos. leave nothing but footprints

Why isn’t it muddy, that’s all I want to know.

@tjagain.. strangely just watched the documentary on the Everest clean up where narrator mentioned that quote. Nice one.

It damages the image of our pastime.

Oh do behave, If you think for a minute that folk see you trundling along with your missus on the back of a tandem and immediately think of kids building ramps in a wood, your GP needs to reduce your dose.

But a question to those that might know to either quash or confirm the urban myth……If I was a landowner and discovered that and did nothing about it then a third party rider (or maybe even the digger) hurt themselves am I liable in law currently?

I believe its the Occupiers Liability Act. Someone gets hurt on your land, even if they are trespassing, and you can be liable. Seem to recall the legislation Links to cases of trespassers on railway lines.

Someone who did the insurance exams this century may be more up to date and show this has changed.

There’s a happy medium with access and responsibility. I have sympathy with both sides, but you can’t build all the fun and then not take responsibility for any injury or possible environmental damage you may cause. Not if you’re an adult with a brain.

Take nothing but photos. leave nothing but footprints

@tjagain.. strangely just watched the documentary on the Everest clean up where narrator mentioned that quote. Nice one.

It is a lovely quote isn’t it?. Pretty much total ballcocks when applied to the life of any single human on the planet though. Look around you.

entitlement in those defending this is breathtaking

I don’t think it comes from a sense of entitlement, rather a sense of injustice that…

50% of UK land is owned by less than 1% of the population

…and there are so many parts of the land that you can’t legally go and respectfully enjoy.

Is it just an assumption that it’s kids? I’m very impressed if so, but suspect adults are involved.

There’s a world of difference between open access (which we should have south of the border) and digging massive jumps. Without knowing the site there could be a myriad of reasons the land owner doesn’t want it dug up, environmental considerations, is it a commercial tree crop, could be used for other commercial purposes that aren’t compatible with big holes in the ground.

Then as said above repeatedly there’s the legal obligations of the land owner, you may not agree with the way the law is worded but thats the legislation.

All that crap about kids having nothing to do, so what, same applies to thousands of kids, they don’t go and dig up the local urban park, or is that ok as well.

TJs use of the word entitled here to describe some of the attitudes displayed is bang on. This is not a cycling issue it’s one of trespass and more importantly criminal damage.

As Stumpy says – down south you should have right to roam same as we do up here. Open access to most land

This would give you the right to ride your bike so long as you did no damage

It would not give you the right to dig jumps,

As Stumpy says – down south you should have right to roam same as we do up here. Open access to most land

This would give you the right to ride your bike so long as you did no damage

It would not give you the right to dig jumps,

But who gives the landowner the right to refuse me access to land they ‘own’ but quite obviously don’t need/use? And don’t give me the ‘back garden’ argument because that’s BS and suggests you might be part of this ‘Waverley beat’ or whatever these knuckles call themselves

enjoying spoiling other peoples fun

Which plays well to the gallery….

How did all the land become private in the first place?

A question that the vested interests will avoid answering at all costs.

Take nothing but photos. leave nothing but footprints

I thought it was ‘take nothing but memories‘?

Quite a few landowners would get the arse if you were there taking photos too.

Not for any reason other than the inbuilt desire to exclude others from ‘their’ land.

English law is shit on access. You should have access to all land SO LONG AS YOU DO NOT DAMAGE same as in scotland.

this does not give you the right to build jumps. You do not have the right to build jumps in Scotland

I’m with TJ on this.

Always conflicted on these topics, on the one hand I want better access. On the other hand I want what little natural space there is to not sustain further damage and for other users to experience that natural space without it being a play park.