University courses and contact time. Disappointment so far.

Bit of a rant really, but youngest has just started at Leeds Beckett and his first ever lecture on the course on Monday turned out to be a pre-recorded webcast.  His first face to face lecture is today but there is a decent proportion of virtual lessons and in person lessons.
He also showed us the upcoming timetable, term finishes on 13th December and although he returns on 13th, his first in person lecture he needs to be there for is 30th January!
And they are taking about increasing the course fees to £14k!
Seems to make a mockery of the need for accommodation, in his circumstances particularly as he’s only a £3.20 train ride from Leeds, but obviously they don’t publish the timetable till you start.  I can’t see him (us) bothering to incur the costs for accommodation in following years if it’s going to be like this.

And they are taking about increasing the course fees to £14k!

Have you worked out a pro-rata cost for it? My daughter spends about 7 months per academic year in uni. Even when I was in uni, early 90s, I complained about how much time was wasted and I didn’t have to pay for tuition, and accommodation was much cheaper than these days. (Also, I only had to pay for accommodation for the time I actually used it, and not the whole year which is the scam that landlords have now come up with.)

Assuming uni dogs just serve months notice to quit.

Unfortunately, he’s in IQ Halls/Dogs/Digs, so tied in for the full year.
The get out clauses are water-tight. Perhaps unsurprisingly.

Would you rather have a well thought out “webcast” with decent content or mediocre content delivered in person?

is university more effective at education if the students have lots of contact time or are left to self directed learning?

Before assuming that there’s nothing to do from 13-30th Jan it might be worth understanding if there are group projects, tutorials, etc to be fitted in by people themselves rather than the official timetable team.

and of course university is as much about learning about life as the subject; your cheap train ticket might be part of that learning but it could also be that moving out of home is much more impactful.

What course is he doing?

My daughters course ramps up from 8 hrs a week for the first couple of weeks to 18-22 a week later on in the term. She does have lab work though and I guess that will up the hours a bit as it takes longer to set up etc

Many years ago when I was at Uni, the first couple of weeks of the new year are for Semester 1 exams so no lectures until the end of the month when semester 2 starts

The Uni I work at have gone back to pretty much entirely in person teaching now. The lectures are recorded though, so a lot of the students don’t show up* anyway as they can just watch it at their leisure. Many of them say they prefer to watch the lecture at their own pace, being able to pause and rewind and read around something when they don’t understand it as explained by the lecturer.

*we’ve also just made all teaching mandatory attendance.

I’d rather well thought out content delivered in person, but I’m from a different era and did an engineering degree in the 90s when the only time not having in person lectures was a Wednesday afternoon.
As for the New Year break, he does have online lectures in that period but, clearly, he can attend those anywhere.   

As for life lessons, he is now a dab hand and cooking up dried pasta..

Would you rather have a well thought out “webcast” with decent content or mediocre content delivered in person?

In my daughters experience these we recorded over a year ago and recycled as they mentioned lockdown being only a year ago!

She also had revision weeks but no exams that semester.

We also had to pay accommodation until July but she finished for the summer at the end of April.

I support university education but they are somewhat taking the p…

There are pros and cons for virtual v in person lessons: if the lecturer is unclear you can interrupt, ask questions etc.  BUT recorded you can rewatch the unclear bits, and mediocre lecturers will find it harder to hide.  I also learned a “proper” subject 30 yrs ago with lots of in person stuff lectures/labs/tutorials etc.

There was luck of the draw which tutorial group you ended up in.  Learning was about quality of note taking.  If you missed a lecture you had to borrow someone else notes.  Technology isn’t all bad.

and of course university is as much about learning about life as the subject; your cheap train ticket might be part of that learning but it could also be that moving out of home is much more impactful.

I said that ^ to my daughter when she was thinking about uni, but really all that I learned as a student was the most basic cookery, how to use a washing machine every few months and an ability to find cheap beer. It was only when I moved away to work that I was forced to learn ‘life lessons’. Being a student was (imo) completely divorced from real life, but did develop social skills and contacts!

And I guess, for me, that where the cynicism came in – I did an HND, worked for two years in London, then returned to get a degree and remember being quite unhappy with the sheer waste of time during that degree.

Digs not dogs.

It sounds like an unfair contract. If you re not allowed to leave the digs.

I’m curious if an IQ contract has ever been challenged successfully.  I’m assuming that IQ would be all be over the contract legally, but it might be “unfair” as you have no ability to negotiate terms, it’s either their way or no way.

All depends on the Uni – our Lectures are in person. On-line may happen if a lecturer can’t get in – e.g. train strike. You’ll also have tutorials, other contact and lots of course work – my daughter spends hours and hours on course work, but has to be in Uni 3 days a week – she commutes. The course work is more like a full time job, and then some (digital animation).

Of course, the OP’s son could use the spare time to go partying, many do, or get down to study.

Hard to say whether it’s appropriate without knowing the course. Contact time is important but not everything -What’s the rest of the course like?

Is there an opportunity to catch up with the tutor after the webcast?

Even back in the 1980s I did an entire maths module which was taught by watching video tapes in the university library. There was a weekly in-person session where students would do a mini-exam on that week’s work and then go over any wrong answers with the tutor.

Universities are places of learning, not places of teaching. Your son is not at school any more – it’s up to him to take the initiative now, nobody is going to spoon feed him.

I’m sure there will be a reading list/work for Christmas. And if there isn’t then it’s up to him. If he wants a first then he will need to do more than just what’s covered in the handouts.

Plus, I would regard 12k (or whatever) for a year in halls (and all the associated experiences…) as excellent value for money. Tell him to make the most of it because it’s a once in a lifetime experience, and it’s also one that many people do not get to have.

One week is no point to be judging this.

My daughter’s just starting third year, initially she found the lack of direct contact time (hands on Arts-y degree – media and creative Industries) a bit disconcerting but soon found there was a lot of reading and researching to be done around the subject, and to pass the degree you can get by doing a bit, but to get a good mark and to really understand and be proficient in the subject, is genuinely a more in = more out equation. She now reckons taught hours are only about third to half of what she actually does and this final year it’ll ramp up further. It’s a big change in learning from A levels.

Of course, the OP’s son could use the spare time to go partying, many do, or get down to study.

There are so many opportunities particularly if not commuting home every night. Her ‘hobby’ is acting/theatre and she’s been in I think five performances of various sizes, as well as co-directing some others, and is currently producing Duchess of Malfi for a few week’s time. As well as being fun the skills learned are going to be huge. There opportunities in sport, music, all sorts and it’s not just the participation, it’s being part of the organisation / exec, that makes the richness of the experience.

If all they leave with is a degree and the knowhow to work a washing machine / make cheap pasta then I’d humbly suggest they are missing a huge part of what Uni can be about..

I said that ^ to my daughter when she was thinking about uni, but really all that I learned as a student was the most basic cookery, how to use a washing machine every few months and an ability to find cheap beer.

Three essential skills!

It was only when I moved away to work that I was forced to learn ‘life lessons’. Being a student was (imo) completely divorced from real life, but did develop social skills and contacts!

A very broad range of social skills many of which are so subtle you probably don’t even know you’ve learned them.  Of course “stay at home” students learn a lot of those skills too – but there’s all sorts of trivial little issue of being on your own two feet that you discover.  Presumably £3.20 means he’s not far (in time/distance) away from the student body but there was quite a clear natural divide formed when I was there between – catered halls students // self catered flat students // live at home students.  My son could feasibly have lived at home (although the train fare is alot more than 3.20!) but I was keen that he got the wider experience – not because he’s a wild party type student, but precisely because he’s not!

We employ quite a lot of graduates. 20% overseas students or British students who studied abroad for a while // 60% British students who left home to study – even if they are back with parents now // 20% British students who studied at home and are still living with parents.   There’s nothing academically between them, but the ability to solve everyday life problems, work out how to come with difficult colleagues etc gets progressively worse from overseas / uk away from home / uk at home.   Our UK at home grads are, almost without exception, used to someone just sorting stuff for them.

If all they leave with is a degree and the knowhow to work a washing machine / make cheap pasta then I’d humbly suggest they are missing a huge part of what Uni can be about..

massive hangover and some good mates and good times the ability to win mario cart races (the kids hate me for this)

contact time on courses vary wildly. i did civil engineering and we had a pretty full on week (25-30hr). mates doing media studies etc had bugger all contact time. my daughter had much less contact time but alot of time in a workshop drawing/making things or researching.

overseas / uk away from home / uk at home

Year abroad is where kid #1 learned everything that she’s applying to her post Uni life.

Kid #2 very keen to do the same… although not learning languages… so harder to get a placement abroad (don’t mention the B word)… so we’ll see…

Universities are places of learning, not places of teaching. Your son is not at school any more – it’s up to him to take the initiative now, nobody is going to spoon feed him.

I think is the key point. My lad reckoned his workload was 6-7 hours a day, 5-6 days a week – tutorials and supervision on Saturdays was fairly common.

From what I can tell,  his weekly accommodation  costs were similar to other universities, but Cambridge only charged you for the weeks you were there. He had to arrange it and pay extra if he wanted to stay an extra week or two or go back early, so the annual cost was surprisingly reasonable.

Universities are places of learning, not places of teaching. Your son is not at school any more – it’s up to him to take the initiative now, nobody is going to spoon feed him.

Interesting that nobody said that on the thread the other day about the son who couldn’t find his way around on the first day.. It seems that MTFU is only applied in certain places. (Where are the emojis kept these days?)

Cambridge only charged you for the weeks you were there

Most accommodation owned by Unis give you the choice of 42 or 52* weeks.

It’s private landlords letting to students that have moved to 12 months.

[ *well, 51 normally ]

I remember (20+ years ago) being jealous of the history students on my halls with only 1hr (one!) a week contact time, when I had 20+.

As others say, it’s not all about the contact time. It might even only be a small part of it.

When I was at Uni doing a Joint Honours, I thought all the free periods were for lazing about, attaining my honours. However I found out far too late that they expect you to do 4 – 6 hours of reading for each hour of lectures, so when you add in tutorials you should be working about 40 hours a week. Unsurprisingly I was lucky to get a Richard.

all our lectures, tutorials, practicals etc are now in person, though for supervision meetings I give students the option of meeting either face to face or online via MS Teams, some students prefer the latter as it saves them a trip to campus, and can slot it in between the loads of paid work they have to do these days to make ends meet :-/

As mentioned above, those first weeks of Jan are for semester 1 exams. You can find the timetable for this year here: https://www.leedsbeckett.ac.uk/our-university/term-dates/

All our teaching is now fully back in person; though sometimes there will be a ‘flipped classroom’ model where you watch a pre recorded lecture on the knowledge, and then use the contact time to talk about the concepts etc. It will depend on the Uni and course.

I do however remind my first year students that classically you were told you ‘read for a degree’.

It’s a bit of a challenge for lots of young adults coming into HE, even more support is needed now post covid. The additional support is available though. It’s a bit of a shock to the system, as they are now adults, and are treated that way.

Would you rather have a well thought out “webcast” with decent content or mediocre content delivered in person?

I would rather not have 5+ year old recorded videos which were out of date with the technology of today on a robotics course.

I would rather not have recordings from mid pandemic which also had oddities and bit which have been corrected after the lecture as ‘not right’.

I agree that there’s a need for a lot more self directed learning, group work, and initiative to solve problems and learn for yourself. Unfortunately my experience is that this is a useful excuse to reduce as much contact time as possible, assume that learners can ‘just do it/mtfu’ from day one rather than coaching them into it, mark group work deeply unfairly, and generally provide a poorly thought out learning experience using the excuse of ‘do it for yourself, it’s a life skill don’t you know?’.

YMMV.

Blimey, so my son gets a character assassination, needs to MTFU or not be spoon fed or whatever you think.  Thanks for that.

The point I (not my son) was making was I’m surprised and disappointed with the scheduled contact time in his timetable.

And don’t get me started on both cost Vs quality of halls owned by uni’s and the horrid contracts inflicted outside of the usual landlord contracts.

@rockhopper70 – you’ve my sympathy, our sons heading to uni have left me with similar feelings.

I’d rather well thought out content delivered in person, but I’m from a different era and did an engineering degree in the 90s when the only time not having in person lectures was a Wednesday afternoon.

Same here, packed schedule most days with lectures or labs, all in person. Only had Wed afternoon off (Eng 89-92). Often didn’t have time to walk back to Halls for lunch as we only had an hour off for lunch and the Eng building was miles away from Halls,

Many folk on here remember Uni life and education from 30 plus years ago – it’s moved on folks.

It’s not the same as mandatory school/college, students have a lot more time, but it’s expected they use that for study.

I will also add, the timetable systems always seem to struggle this time of year and it takes a bit of time to get stuff sorted – listening to complaints today about it, but it’s the same in every Uni – look at the logistics of managing hundreds of rooms, thousands of students and the individual requirement of each cohort.

It’s also a big shock to parents.  They (and me with my kids) have gone from their children getting xyz, timetable, etc, and now, over the summer it’s, right you are at Uni, you can turn up at these ‘sessions’ or not, but you need to read emails, log into your ‘moodle’ etc and read what you need to do.

It’s a massive shift from statutory education, to studying a subject they actually have to do on their own, but with guidance and advice. Remember also, your ‘child’ is now an adult – Universities, by law, speak to the student first, not the parent – that’s a huge shock for most parents, and, currently, with the new intakes post covid, the lockdowns have not helped the youngsters at all.

It will get better OP. The gaps usually ease the student in, but you’ll find he has assignments in over Christmas and January, and, has been mentioned there are exams/assessments going on. Most students used to get piddled up the first few months. The new Gen Z’s aren’t quite the same, many don’t drink…   Also gives student’s time to go see the SU and get involved in groups etc etc.

Biggest issue my daughter has had in Year 1 and 2 has been Collaboration working.  You work with students from other courses to get a project together. This is a large assignment – so as an animator, she’d work with musicians, actors etc etc. That’s what they are expected to do. It’s been hard as she’s had members not participating until the drop dead dates, some folk won’t work in a group, but that is what a working life is like, you ‘collaborate’.

My daughter is just heading in tomorrow,  for year three. She’s had a break over the summer since June, but she’s been working up her final piece of animation – she’s had to research it, so she’s been coming out with us when we are out to get ‘ideas’ of locations etc, to base her animation on.

I’ll also add. Has any of us had a talk/lecture about the difference of us Gen X, the lot in the middle, and is what is our Gen ‘Z’.

As a Gen ‘X’ member of staff at a Uni, we had a very enlightening workshop about Gen ‘Z’, given by lecturers, but mainly Gen ‘Z’ students.  Made a hell of a lot of sense as a Gen X parent of a Gen ‘Z’ person.

I felt very old fashioned, but the Gen X work ethic is very different to the Gen Z – they will just challenge stuff – us oldies get on with it, as our parents were born in, or after the war. Things have moved on.   It’s quite scary..

We have been fully back to in-person teaching for two years now, and I’ve just checked our new level 1 intakes timetables, and they have 22 hours contact time this week, which will be pretty consistent across the semester. It depends very heavily on the degree type, and we are recognised as having about the highest amount of lab time in the discipline,  but as described above, if you are just able to recite what you’ve been told in lectures, you can get an ok pass. If you want a 1st of a 2.1 you need to be investing in a lot of that other time.

A Scottish degree requires 120 SQCF credits per year, which we split into 2×60 credit semesters. Each credit is supposed to take 10 notional hours of student effort, ergo 600 hours per semester, which are 10/11 weeks. The balance of contact time to self-study time  will vary hugely according to discipline – arts subjects tend to be lower contact time and more self-study.

(and don’t mention the psychologists where I did my degree who had 6 hours per week, while we had 30….)