UK Government Thread

The only one acting like a child here is you Ernie. You’ve picked one sentence from a rather lengthy post and decided that’s what it is that everyone is liking. I’ll go out on a limb here and say you’re wrong. In fact I know you are because I’m one of the people that liked his post and it had nothing to do with you and the Tory-lite bit. Perhaps go back and read the entire post and have a think about why people might have given it a like that wasn’t anything to do with you.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about Funkmasterp. The post that I quoted was not lengthy, it was two sentences long. Here is the entire post:

So anyone to the right of Marx is aTory-lite? I’ve read some delusional arguments on here but that’s right up there.

I did not claim that anyone to the right of Marx is a Tory-lite, what a daft and ridiculous allegation. How can you have a grown up discussion when you have to respond to nonsense like that?

And how about sticking to talking about politics about the UK government?

@dazh

And there we have it. Any lefty types should shut the f*** up. I’ve always known there’s an active effort on here – mostly lead by binners – to silence any opinions that don’t fit in with the centrist-establishment consensus so it’s nice to have it in black and white.

Strawman

QED.

Have you ever not had the chance to say exactly what you want? Do you think that yours (and other) virtual monopoly on these sorts of threads dissuades others from joining in? D’you honestly think that yours is the only ‘lefty-type’ voice out of the hundreds of members of this forum? if you didn’t post d’you think others might feel more emboldened to contribute?

And there we have it. Any lefty types should shut the f*** up. I’ve always known there’s an active effort on here – mostly lead by binners – to silence any opinions that don’t fit in with the centrist-establishment consensus so it’s nice to have it in black and white.

Mate – please just leave it with the persecution complex. Take your tinfoil helmet off for a bit, eh? Nobody is trying to silence ayone. People are asking for certain other people to just stop endlessly repeating the same post about single issues, ad nauseam

Now… at the moment we’re presently discussing – or at least trying to – the investment in offshore wind and the end of the ban on onshore wind, which is a huge shift away from the previous Tory policy.

Have you anything to say about that?

Do you think that yours (and other) virtual monopoly on these sorts of threads dissuades others from joining in?

I’ve barely posted on this thread. In fact I’ve been relatively quiet recently as I actually have some work to do ATM. What I’m talking about is the pattern where someone posts an opinion, binners replies with a load of monty python abuse, then everyone else piles in and complains about the thread being destroyed. It’s fairly obvious what the source of the problem is.

Have you anything to say about that?

Funnily enough I do. There’s a plan to put a 76 turbine windfarm up on the Walshaw Estate above Hebden Bridge. It’s a bloody stupid idea*, has massive local opposition, but will probably still happen because the Labour party – especially the local councillors and our new labour MP – have decided that the blanket policy of building more onshore wind overrides any local specifics which mean some windfarms aren’t a good idea as in this case.

*It’s going to be built on deep peat which will release a load of carbon reducing the effectiveness of the windfarm as a source of carbon savings. All this is going to do is destroy a unique landscape and habitat, whilst releasing lots of carbon, and making a local landowner very rich while everyone else is pissed off and even more opposed at any action towards net zero.

igm
Full Member
I’m quite enjoying the opinions on windless days, batteries, solar and grid capacity……..

Interesting post mate! Thanks for sharing.

Do you think that yours (and other) virtual monopoly on these sorts of threads dissuades others from joining in?

How about sticking to talking about politics? That might help. And maybe tolerate the views of those who are not necessarily Labour Party supporters.

Or would that be a step too far?

This thread feels like Binners vs the world – the world being those of us who may (or may not) share the same opinion but would it exhausting to maintain a debate (argument) all day.

Storage moving to point of generation or demand rather than half way up the system which merely exacerbates the grid capacity issue

That seems to be one of the more interesting areas currently but doesnt seem to get much political interest in the UK vs elsewhere in Europe where they are building out local(ish) storage facilities.

One question is how closely this will all be tied to the 1.5 million new homes idea especially the “new towns” and also high density housing parts.

Surely it’s time for another hilarious Monty Python image isn’t it?

All this is going to do is destroy a unique landscape and habitat

It’s an intensively farmed mono culture designed for grouse shooting. 1. Not unique, and 2, a stretch to even call it a habitat (I doubt even the spagnum has survived up there), and the only ‘wild’ things growing up there are destined to be shot.

edit: I get what you’re saying about peat, but they’ve burnt off the heather so often, I doubt the peat is even wet anymore.

The power for new towns is going to be an interesting challenge and speaks to the wider underinvestment in the grid.

My personal opinion in working in sustainability and energy management at a larger user level for a number of years – renationalise the grid.

It’s currently operated by a number of localised monopolies. They are a nightmare to deal with and have to generate a profit for shareholders. They aren’t totally shit, we have a relative stable and reliable grid system, but there’s quite often a catch 22 when it comes to enhancing or upgrading the grid. End users can’t commit to projects because there isn’t the power availability, and the NGO won’t commit to the upgrade because the end users haven’t committed.

In my job I’m looking at decarbonisation of an industrial manufacturing facility, this may need a lot of power in the future to move away from using fossil fuels

@ernielynch

How about sticking to talking about politics? That might help. And maybe tolerate the views of those who are not necessarily Labour Party supporters.

Or would that be a step too far?

Whataboutism

Again.

I get what you’re saying about peat, but they’ve burnt off the heather so often, I doubt the peat is even wet anymore.

It is, there’s some local ecologists and grassland experts have checked it out and confirmed that it’s still a major carbon sink. Yes it’s a very degraded environment thanks to the grouse shooting but it could easily be restored (as they’re doing up at the Bridestones – https://bridestones.love/ ). If the upper Calder valley wants to contribute to saving carbon, the best way of doing that is to protect and expand the deap peat moorland, not destroying it.

And of couse there is the local sentiment argument. Whether we like it or not local people simply don’t want it. It’s easy to cry ‘Nimby’ but all that does is alienate people in these areas and set them against the wider effort towards net zero. As I’ve always said, if net zero is going to happen it needs the support of working people. Imposing stuff like windfarms on them in their local communities isn’t going to result in these communities supporting policy towards net zero, in fact it drives them towards the populists like Farage who want to see it all burned down.

This is probably going to get lost amidst the arguments but ho hum.

Really interesting response @igm….pretty much what my instincts were. I tend to stay away from the discussions on nuclear as it all gets a bit like this thread in general very quickly! I’m also not convinced by the arguements around hydrogen. Last government were very reliant on hydrogen for home heating in their plans, much to the dismay of the CCC. Hopefully that, alongside a big insulation push will change in this parliament.

Whether we like it or not local people simply don’t want it.

I hear you, but I reckon that’s largely because of who the landowner is rather than nimby-ism about windfarms, let’s be honest here, they dominate the landscape whichever direction you look in from Heb.

The funny thing is that, in 2019, Corbynism* was put to the country against a known liar, bit of a laugh, hide in a fridge, don’t engage in debate, joke candidate in Boris **** Johnson.

And Corbyn got thumped. The scores were literally on the doors. We can bemoan press bias, dumbing down of politics, FPTP, whatever. But Corbyn got hammered. Rogered. Trounced. Whipped.

That’s all you need to remember when folk start down the ideological purity route. I liked Corbyn. I liked most of his policies. I voted Labour in 2019. Nowhere near enough other people did. I guess we could go back and have another crack at it in 2029, but deep down we all know what would happen if we did.

*For want of a better term.

I voted Labour in 2019

Me too. And got mocked in the barbers for saying that I was going to do so. And since July we now have a Labour MP.

The ‘thread is a shit show’ response –  appears when it’s not going with a consensus of the centre right on here that believe they’re the progressives.

We’ve heard it all before.

If Starmer keeps up with his conservative authoritarian ways then expect heavy criticism.

@rone No, wrong take, IMO.

The problem is how posters are choosing to interact with other posters, political alignment isn’t really the problem although it may act as a catalyst.

Whether the negative interactions are direct or indirect, intentional or accidental. Its the choice in how responses are made that are the issue.

100% not something I’m innocent of on this forum.

Anyone else see the parallels here between it wasn’t Corbyn’s fault it was the nasty right wing press and voters who sabotaged him and the increasingly strident claims of that the Lefty cabal is being shut down by those rotten centrists.

And to keep this vaguely relevant I think it’s more a case that there’s many more of us centrists who now we actually have a government worthy of it’s name, feel more emboldened to take issue with the repeated negativity and demonstrably impractical views of a small number of very vocal posters. Posters now accusing others of the very behaviour they have been guilty of for years, it’s all rather hypocritical, and like the Tories, you reap the rewards of toxic environment you have created, the lack of tolerance, name calling and insinuation that others are less worthy human beings because of their political views is now coming back to bite you with a vengeance.

As for power policy (which is much more significant moving forward compared to the 2 child cap) I too am very glad onshore wind is back, and would happily see Scout Moor doubled in size (I can see from the other direction), it’s post industrial land anyway. I also think the grid is creaking and I would like to see solar generation at point of use massively increased so the grid will ultimately be less strained in future. Solar is already a mature and practical solution at domestic and commercial level and unlike wind can be installed easily and effectively on domestic properties. As EV cars become more common the need to get increased power out to all the suburbs is going to be a real challenge.

Thanks @igm very interesting

I notice there is no mention of tidal power.  It’s always intrigued me that there is so much predictable power sloshing up and down our shores but we can’t find a way to harness it.

Could it be something for the future or is it just too difficult?

Sorry to derail the thread.

As EV cars become more common the need to get increased power out to all the suburbs is going to be a real challenge.

I liked that post for the last paragraph.

Can we have a politics forum please?

Dozens of pages pass and it’s the same posters. I’m on holiday at present and just can’t see how some folk can batter in a dozen pages of circular arguments (well not argument more like shouting as no minds are being changed or outlooks altered) every day.

I suppose this is a political thread flounce as they are pointless.

It’s currently operated by a number of localised monopolies. They are a nightmare to deal with and have to generate a profit for shareholders.

I think if the country does go for distributed power and storage then there is an argument for local companies eg for a new town spinning up a bunch of solar + wind + storage facilities to allow mostly independent functioning but with a connection to the broader grid.

Surely it’s time for another hilarious Monty Python image isn’t it?

Oh wait, that’ll never happen ?

 but we can’t find a way to harness it.

My perhaps entirely incorrect understanding is that the sea bed being a notoriously difficult environment for machinery of any sort makes taking energy from it very much harder than almost all the alternatives.

Can we have a politics forum please?

It’s easy to avoid the politics threads, they’re normally very clearly titled. The problem with those threads having the same few posters making the exact same points over and over again, so you can’t quickly scan and see any geniuley new content…? No real answer to that I’m afraid.

The problem with those threads having the same few posters making the exact same points over and over again, so you can’t quickly scan and see any geniuley new content…?

Indeed. Like the rest of the forum there’s genuinely interesting novel information on here, it’s just ruined by the big hitters drowning it out with their noise.

As EV cars become more common the need to get increased power out to all the suburbs is going to be a real challenge.

If not already in existence (IANAE), to get planning permission for any new building development (there’ll always be a justified exception) surely there could be a requirement to have solar installed on every building? That could help reduce grid demand.

makes taking energy from it very much harder than almost all the alternatives.

It seems to be a smaller market and so has had far less investment and hence progress to date.

Depending on the type, especially the barrage types, there are also significant environmental concerns as well.

Not sure its helped that a couple of the recent schemes at least in the UK seem more dodgy get rich schemes rather than a proper plan.

Thanks @dissonance

At one point, developments needed a minimum % of roofs with solar installed IIRC… the problem is/was that the local grids couldn’t feed back enough unused electricity during the day. If you mandated solar AND storage, that could be mitigated though… and we have that technology at volume now.

surely there could be a requirement to have solar installed on every building?

The French passed a law requiring any carpark with 80 spaces to have a solar canopy installed which seems a good take on the subject.

Having the gathering is only half of it though. Thats where local storage options come in as well. After all a lot of the cars will be getting charged overnight.

My perhaps entirely incorrect understanding is that the sea bed being a notoriously difficult environment for machinery of any sort makes taking energy from it very much harder than almost all the alternatives.

IANAE but this is what I’d heard too. Also that they get blocked up and broken by debris.

My perhaps entirely incorrect understanding is that the sea bed being a notoriously difficult environment for machinery of any sort makes taking energy from it very much harder than almost all the alternatives

That makes lots of sense, but if it could work for any nation it must be us. If there is one thing we have which is genuinely world leading it’s our tides.

This is the ‘current’ tide map

I notice there is no mention of tidal power.

Not against it in principle, but…

Tidal lagoons are difficult from an environmental point of view changing of changing the ecology in the lagoons.

Tidal flow (or wave power, or similar) keep getting tested but it doesn’t seem that there’s anything reliable in the long term just yet that’s available to be deployed at scale.

Someone will sort those in due course.

If not already in existence (IANAE), to get planning permission for any new building development (there’ll always be a justified exception) surely there could be a requirement to have solar installed on every building? That could help reduce grid demand.

That’s the energy / power confusion.

Domestic solar will assist with annual energy provision, but not with peak power demand.  It’s probably better in reducing grid capacity issues than merchant solar, but not the peak power the grid needs to meet.

The local grid is pretty much stronger enough for domestic EV charging already (there are some exceptions).
Fast charging is more problematic.

Thats where local storage options come in as well.

How difficult are those storage options technically? (Planning, nimbyism) aside).

I’ve often, naively, wondered why we need to build solar farms covering entire fields, whilst building housing estates that are covering other entire fields. 2 birds with one stone. Naivety on my part. I’m not a technically minded person so this stuff both intrigues and baffles me.

Also, apologies, realise this isn’t the place as it’s about Government, however, again, naively, I’d have thought this would be easier to put into place,whilst putting fewer folks noses out of joint.

I did not claim that anyone to the right of Marx is a Tory-lite, what a daft and ridiculous allegation. How can you have a grown up discussion when you have to respond to nonsense like that?

Well no, you didn’t.  I was taking the proverbial out of this comment of yours

You do realise where the term centrist comes from don’t you? If you are in the centre you are by definition closer to the Tories. So you might not like the term Tory-lite

You just said that anyone who you consider “centrist” was in fact “Tory-lite”. Despite the fact that being in the centre would make them the same distance to whatever you feel the opposite of Tory is, presumably “Marxist Lite as well.

I was highlighting the daftness of your point of view, and by extension the whole binary “left is good, not left bad” argument that puts so many people off getting involved in these threads.

And it seems to have needled you.