Tubeless woes

I’ve never really had much trouble fitting tubeless tyres to either MTB or road bikes up to now – however, I have just about given up with a Schwalbe one TLE on a Hunt 4 seasons rim.  The tyre will go up after a squirt of about 50 psi from my comedy coke bottle compressor, but the beads just will not stay on the rims when I let the air out to put the valve core back.  I put a tube in and went for a couple of rides, took it out, tried again and exactly the same thing happened.  I’ve also tried a ratchet strap round the tyre.  I feel like sending the tyre back as unfit for purpose (except it’s now been used on the road and is full of sealant).  Any suggestions before I fit a tube again?

I made a ghetto tubeless bottle inflator the other day.

1st time i used it i took the valve core out and popped it into the rim. 2nd time i left the valve core in.

Worked fine. Try it.

You don’t get the sharp pop like without the core but it’s still fairly rapid.

Support the wheel off the ground so that the tyre isn’t deformed.

Is it fully snapping onto the tubeless ledge on the rim?
If not you might need more pressure, if it is, and then falling off, could you add a second run of tape to tighten it up?

Put your finger on the valve quick to keep the air in while you grab the core to screw it in?

Have you pumped up to at least maximum pressure on the sidewall and left for a day or so?

I just had the Maxxis Minions on my new bike refuse to stay up / sidewalls stay put. I cleaned the rim as best I can with alcohol. Then they were left 4 days at 50+psi….And now stay put.

I need 80psi in my ghetto lemonade bottle before i attempt to release into the tyre (without valve core). Gives enough pressure to attempt to seat the bead, and enough pressure to move my fingers around to get the valve core back in.

Lots of patience needed and sometimes MANY attempts. But you only need it to work once

Sometimes tyres need really high pressure to pop fully into place around the rim. Often you’ll get them on then there’ll be a hop in the circumference when you spin the wheel.

I’d try off the ground, more pressure, thumb over the valve whilst getting the core though you’ll probably lose all but 15 – 20 psi, then even more pressure once it’s seated. Oh, and plenty of jizz and much shoogling.

I seated a chums a few weeks ago that was so stiff that it wouldn’t seat even with a compressor.  I had to squash the bits that were leaking into place to get it to seal. I had to thumb seal the valve before installing the core or the tyre would unseat itself once deflated as it was so stiff.

Just leave the valve core in…

That is, after all, what it’s there for.

Thanks for all that.  I’ll try leaving the valve core in and a wee bit more pressure.

I just had the Maxxis Minions on my new bike refuse to stay  put. I cleaned the rim as best I can with alcohol.

Try cleaning it sober. You’ll probably do a better job.

https://www.merlincycles.com/beto-cja-001s-tubeless-air-tank-inflator-98943.html

And neat washing up liquid around the beads. Valve core out to pop on. This is no comedy joke tank at 50PSI. Very portable too.

I had trouble getting a new Big Betty Supergravity to seat on a mates bike a couple of months ago, tried several times with an airshot with no success. I was about to give up then tried with the track pump by itself and it worked straight away, obviously no where near the pressure of a road tyre but could be worth trying

Tried again but to no avail.  It holds air when still connected to the pump and Coke bottle, at 60 PSI.  However, if I take the hose off the valve I can’t get the valve core in fast enough to stop the beads popping back from the rim.  Tried with the valve core in place, but can’t get enough air in fast enough.  I’m going to put a tube in again and ride it like that for a few more rides.  Life’s too short to waste any more time on this little (definitely first world) problem!

Depends very much on wheel / tyre combo in my experience. Some go straight up slow pumping with a track pump. Others have taken me the best part of an afternoon and dozens of attempts with 120psi from an airshot (with valve core removed). Once they snap onto to rim they’re usually fine but it can be a challenge getting them there.

I’m going to put a tube in again and ride it like that

It’s not like a wheel with a tube in is unrideable. I’d just leave the tube in.

Both my mountain bikes are tubeless, but both road bikes and commuter are tubed. Number of punctures this year-2 on tubes and one on tubeless.

Once you’ve had a tube in it for 24 hours you’ll probably be able to take it out and get it set up tubeless. I had to do that with the Gravelking SS tyres on my gravel bike.

smatkins1
Free Member

Put your finger on the valve quick to keep the air in while you grab the core to screw it in?

Yeah honestly I think this is the correct answer. I mean, health and safety 30psi limit aside, Northwind accepts no responsibility for any hideous deaths caused by embolisms.

Like you and for the first time for years I’ve recently had this problem with a Hans Dampf ST and a Big Betty SG, one on a Hunt rim and one on a Superstar rim. I eventually inflated them by using a ratchet strap to hold in place with the core fitted.

Is it a new tyre or one that has previously been used tubeless? If it has been used tubeless before, are there any residues of dried sealant on the bead that are preventing it from sitting flush enough?

Based on my similar experience with 30mm Pro Ones on Hunt carbon 40 rims, chuck it in the bin and get some GP5000s. I really struggled to get the Pro Ones to evenly snap on the bead.

They were also swines to get on the rims using levers..

The 30mm GP5000 went on easily with just hands and popped on first time with the inflator.

Night and day.

It’s a new tyre.  Regarding the ratchet strap idea, I can’t even flatten the tyre enough to get the beads to rest against the rim.  Like I said before, though, the tyre will stay up when kept under pressure.  As soon as the pressure starts to fall, the tyre beads pop back off the rim.

When you have a tube in the tyre and you pump up the tube , do you hear the beads popping on to the rim ?

When you let the air out of the tube do the beads stay on the rim ?

If so then dismount tyre on on one side, take tube out, add valve and try again, pushing down on tyre over valve to keep bead on edge of rim.

Ig that does not work , probably have a slack tyre and you need another round of tape. make sure tape is wide enough so it goes up to side of rim to increase the circumference where the tyre sits. You might need to go wider than normally recommended and arch the tape to get under the hooks when inserting it.

Mine held pressure but wouldn’t seat properly without major faff and initially LBS intervention. The rear got binned after a flat which wouldn’t seal and I fixed with a plug, but the bead popped off and wouldn’t reseat properly although it held pressure, I had a wobbly tyre. Increasing pressure to try to force it to seat pushed out the plug so I eventually gave up and binned the tyre

The front is still a Pro One (they were on offer from Hunt when I bought the wheels) but if it ever goes fully flat, I’m expecting the same issue and I’ll just replace it with a GP5000.

Appreciate that the above is probably not much help …

50psi probably isn’t enough – I’m kinda surprised it even starts to seat at that pressure. I’ve got a Giant tubeless inflator, and I normally take that up to 140+ psi, and even then, sometimes it can be a bit of a faff.

My schwalbe ones fell off the rims all the time when deflated. I just pumped them back up to 70psi then rode them with no issues. Some tyres just do that.

have you tried putting the valve in them pumping back up?

50 psi is only just bordering on enough pressure to pop onto the rims but pump them up till the pop on then set the pressure.  If they really wont pop onto the rim i usually run some soapy water round the bead or a quick spray of silicone.

i’ve had them deflate with punctured and they’ve still stayed put. Only when really low psi did they pop back off but a c02 was enough to pumpmup and get going once plugged.

I have ordered one of those Beto inflators from Merlin as recommended earlier in the thread.  Delivery due tomorrow.  I suspect that a blast of higher pressure may do the trick – I think that the reason the beads keep retracting from the rim is that they weren’t properly seated in the first place, even though they were holding air when kept under pressure by the Coke bottle (which will now be honourably retired).

After the initial blast, I normally find I need to take the pressure up to at least 80psi to get Schwalbe Ones to seat fully.

Thanks Aidy, good tip.

80psi will do it for sure

Based on my similar experience with 30mm Pro Ones on Hunt carbon 40 rims, chuck it in the bin and get some GP5000s. I really struggled to get the Pro Ones to evenly snap on the bead.

They were also swines to get on the rims using levers..

The 30mm GP5000 went on easily with just hands and popped on first time with the inflator.

Manufacturing tolerances are crazy, I have the exact same wheels and the Pro Ones went on fine with just a track pump, but GP5000s while not hard to get on still needed the airshot.

Quick update – The Beto air tank thing arrived, so with mounting excitement I went into the garage to hopefully inflate the rogue tyre with ease.  However, it performed no better than the Coke bottle.  Exactly the same issue with the beads popping back from the rims when the air was let out.  The tank wouldn’t lock on to the valve without the core in place, so I had to hold it in place and as soon as I removed it the tyre had deflated and the beads popped back before I could replace the core.  The instructions for the tank strongly hint that the core should be left in – there is no way that the air rushes in fast enough like that.  Plus, 160 psi is virtually impossible to achieve; after 4 or 5 attempts with 140 psi in the tank I was knackered.  I don’t know whether to send the tyre or the tank back, or both.  Neither are fit for purpose, IMHO.

Are you sure your tape is good and your valve is sealing properly?

Once I’ve gotten something to start to seat, I’ve never had major problems getting it to seat all the way with just a track pump.

Have you tried neat washing up liquid on beads, using the Beto unit with as much pressure as you can but crucially keeping the track pump attached to the top tank valve. The rubber lead goes to tyre ( yes hold down track pump handle when you flip the Beto pressure lever)
The result is a very good blast from tank and then you pumping like a goodun on track pump till about 50psi is reached. That is a lot of quick air.

If the bead pops back off after that, then I would as previously suggested by a poster given up on that tyre rim combo.

Can you continue to add air through your pop bottle compressor?

Admittedly I have an Airshot. So I wallop 120 psi in that, blast the tyre on (still usually only gets to around 20 psi). Then keep adding air through the pump to about 40 psi. I can then usually unscrew the Airshot, whack a finger over the valve stem, pick up a core and quickly shove it in and start doing it up.

I know some Schwalbe beads can be a bit bent up in packaging.

I would normally pump them up with a tube and leave them them like that for a few days.

Hopefully bead will tighten on to rim.

Then try again to seat .

Regards,

Max

I’ve got an Airshot and it screws securely on to the valve with or without the core.

Also it took me a while to realise but if the beads don’t fully seat you can leave the tank connected and top up through the tank with the track pump so you don’t lose the pressure you’ve already achieved.

If you don’t think the beads are fully seated try using washing up solution to lube it up.

with mounting excitement

I see what you did there.

Thanks.  Unintentional unfortunately!  Anyway, it is possible to add air with the coke bottle, but not with the Beto tank because the nozzle won’t stay on a presta valve with no core.  However, as soon as the air is released (to replace the core) the beads pop back off the rim …. every …. time …..   Tube fitted now (35g Ali express TPU one).  I’ll maybe try again in a few weeks.  Or years.