The return of coal mining. Bet Arthur Scargill is chuffed

Well, the electric arc furnaces are better (don’t need coke) but they can’t make virgin steel, so it’s for recycled material or secondary production only. Could work, if they can get plenty of uncontaminated material. I believe TATA want to install one at Port Talbot. The other bonus is they can be switched on and off.
Major downside is the horrific electricity demand.

Using hydrogen isn’t ready yet, unless anyone knows better?

Anyone else willing to bet this mine never actually opens?

My thoughts too.

If there was a genuine need for this coking coal for production of steel in the UK, I could see the sense. But if that’s not an actual thing I’d be amazed if the numbers work to make a profit out of exporting it.

Still need coke for steel…

No, we don’t. Just like other production, not decarbonising steel production is a choice. A poor one. Cheaper not to now, while governments allow it, but the cost environmentally will hit home so soon that not to do so is insanity. And all other paths realistically require governments to act, not sit back and wave through releasing carbon via coal extraction. Hydro generation plants (or hydro storage using other renewables for the base) need to be built to supply the energy for hydrogen-based or electric arc steel production. Markets need to be rigged to favour steel produced without coking. Existing producers need regulatory coercion and economic support to change their methods and energy sources… just like all other industries.

Who’s gong to go and work in this thing? The inter-generational legacy has been broken and no-one wants to work a mile underground in one of the most dangerous jobs in the world and come home covered in coal dust. Anyone of suitable age is going to go nowhere near it.

the PM is trying to rescind the ban on on-shore wind farms,

I’ll belive that when I see more wind farms, call me a cynic.

Import the steel!

Direct from China.

the PM is trying to rescind the ban on on-shore wind farms

The ERG and Home Counties Daily Mail reading pensioners have already scuppered that

Anyone else willing to bet this mine never actually opens?

Doesn’t every single government policy now end up with the inevitable U-turn?

This lot don’t actually DO anything. They just announce something – 40 new hospitals, 300,000 new homes a year, a nuclear reactor a year, Northern Powerhouse Rail, HS2 north of Birmingham, etc, etc, etc, etc – and that’s the last you ever hear of it as it’s all quietly dropped.

The only thing they actually DO is corruption and lining their own pockets

Where is this mine being proposed, behind the Nationwide at Swindon ?

Anyone who still says “we need this for steel” is an idiot.

85% for export. Unuseable in our own steel industry.

Company owned by offshore cayman island holding though. So opaque taxation.

Rest of the world is looking at us – and going “**** it – we’ll dig our own too”.

Bye bye humanity.

Company owned by offshore cayman island holding though. So opaque taxation

I’m going out on a limb her but… Tory party donors by any chance? Any Tory MP’s on the payroll as highly paid ‘consultants’?

If you thought the coke from the costa del marra was bad, wait til you see the hookers

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*not a hactual hooker, genuine Egreh gurning “athlete”

^^ Lol!
Cheers for that.😁

it’s a Tory ploy to get Extinction Rebellion to stop disrupting the M25 and London area and relocate them all to Cumbria.

It’s a race to the anus, the choccy- star fish?

racist/brexit labour voters hate Kier so what will they do? abstain? or vote lib dem?

Seems slightly unlikely (but not impossible) they’ll vote LD, tbh.

to avoid any confusion, I support the strikes. NHS/public service etc.

People will die, but the system is already busted.

Happy christmas.

In reply to Ernie.  No. US coal isn’t the answer.

The answer would have been (and STILL IS) for the Gov to not have d1cked about for 30 years not building nuclear power stations. Or tidal.  Even now in a massive energy crisis, its still d1xking about and avoiding the proper investment needed to have a secure long term energy supply. Still letting the market decide. Still loving the dash for gas in energy generation. The market will ALWAYS take the short term decision.  As you see now, a lack of energy isn’t the market’s problem.  The market will profit more from a scarcity.

In reply to Ernie.  No. US coal isn’t the answer.

The answer would have been (and STILL IS) for the Gov to not have d1cked about for 30 years not building nuclear power stations. Or tidal.  Even now in a massive energy crisis, its still d1xking about and avoiding the proper investment needed to have a secure long term energy supply. Still letting the market decide. Still loving the dash for gas in energy generation. The market will ALWAYS take the short term decision.  As you see now, a lack of energy isn’t the market’s problem.  The market will profit more from a scarcity.

Seems slightly unlikely (but not impossible) they’ll vote LD, tbh.

If that is a reference to the the so-called Redwall seats there isn’t any evidence that they “hate Keir”, I have no idea what that claim is based on.

I would have thought that most Redwall voter’s don’t know enough about Starmer to hate him.

There is certainly plenty of evidence that they are prepared to vote for a Labour Party lead by Starmer, such is their current disillusionment with the Tories. In fact the Labour lead over the Tories in the Redwall seats is potentially far greater than the UK average.

This was a poll taken when Liz Truss was PM but Starmer was Labour leader then and Labour had a 38% over the Tories.

https://www.independent.co.uk/independentpremium/uk-news/labour-tories-poll-red-wall-starmer-b2196263.html

It doesn’t provide any evidence that Redwall voters are likely to abstain, or more bizarrely vote LibDem.

So what party will you vote for Ernie?

LibDem I think…….in solidarity with Redwall voters.

Based on your suggestion:

racist/brexit labour voters hate Kier so what will they do? abstain? or vote lib dem?

hmmmm

Total nonsense. It’ll take years to bring coal out
Levelling up by putting northerners down t’pit 🙂

I’m a member of mining history Facebook group, it has some interesting posts and photos of pits of old. Sadly it’s swamped by bitter miners who still think mines will reopen, coal is the answer and they were profitable. There was a massive self gratification thread when this was announced. The usual rubbish of how it’s needed for electricity as it’s the most reliable and efficient, that it’s down to electric car demand and that it’s a start of many. Only a few voices were pointing out it’s for export, a small amount for the uk in an industry barely hanging on and our trade deals are shit so no one will be keen to buy it.

Some steel industry seems necessary to remain a military power – this rusi article eventually gets to that point https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/use-it-or-lose-it-uk-must-decide-if-it-wants-steel-industry

That being said, some coal-related PR is unlikely to help.

This recent news on a new coal mine is not good. It sends some confusing signals, especially following COP meetings.

Perhaps it is all part of some Conservative Party Yes, Minister style plot to lose the next election and blame whoever wins with the fallout of nearly a generation of tireless failure to improve the U.K. economy and U.K. living standards?

As for voting libdem: vote libdem, get a Tory.

I’m a member of mining history Facebook group, it has some interesting posts and photos of pits of old. Sadly it’s swamped by bitter miners who still think mines will reopen, coal is the answer and they were profitable. There was a massive self gratification thread when this was announced.

I saw them asking people in the street about it and a bloke was banging on how they would be able to get their pride back.

IMHO think some people inhibit a weird past and don’t get the concept of things ‘moving on’ over time perhaps steampunk was right all along and we should be driving coal fired Teslas.

When I were a lad,I worked on installations at all the new ‘Super’ pits around York.
Hailed as the future of coal,with gigantic seams and jobs aplenty.
They didn’t stay ‘Super’ very long(10yrs) and my memories will be more of the strikes and the milk snatcher’s Gov giving everyone a kicking. 😔 😔
It was nice living around York though.Oh,and I had nothing to do with that big fire. 😆

IMHO think some people inhibit a weird past and don’t get the concept of things ‘moving on

The north west news last night had some retired miner banging on about a return to the glory days, where you could leave school with no qualifications and have a job for life darn’t pit

What it didn’t have was any 16 year olds getting misty-eyed at that particular prospect

This bloody country seems determined to become some weird 1950’s theme park. I’d love to know what the appeal is.

Anyway, as you’d expect, the voice of sanity on this is Caroline Lucas who sums up perfectly this total nonsense

Climate-wrecking emissions; unwanted by steel industry; stranded asset within a few years. This will be a toxic, costly & useless dump by 2030. Cumbria needs lower bills, more jobs & economic revival – a coal mine won't deliver them.

Me for @guardian ?https://t.co/rJUq2RmRUl

— Caroline Lucas (@CarolineLucas) December 7, 2022

Does anyone know how they are planning to staff this new mine? Will they be importing all the mining industry engineers?

The skeptic in me thinks this is a distraction technique for the other stuff the government is about to do. Get all the public fuming, sweep something else under the carpet…

JeZ

I think it’s just another part of their ongoing culture war

It’s literally all they’ve got left

Let’s open a coal mine, while not building any wind turbines. That’ll wind the lefties up and let Barry the Brexiteer cabby and the Daily Mail reading pensioners of Eastbourne know that we’re on their side

I still don’t think it’ll ever happen, mainly because there’s absolutely zero economic case for it. It’s got white elephant written all over it.

But it allows them indulge in whatever the opposite of virtue-signalling is, to appeal to their Brexity, senile, racist base, and it’s somewhere frightful up north so they couldn’t give a shit about it anyway

Indeed, they’re experts at it.

Maybe they could link it in with plans for that Irish tunnel project. 🤪

Total nonsense. It’ll take years to bring coal out

18 months after the start of construction apparently, it will use some existing mine shafts. So possibly operational before the next general election.

I am not aware of any public money being invested so presumably if the West Sussex based firm is willing to sink £170+ million into the scheme they are expecting a healthy return.

I have no idea why the company feel there will be a strong market for their coal, other than Tata saying they would buy some, but presumably they have looked at the economics behind the proposal as much as the geology?

Some steel industry seems necessary to remain a military power

And ironically to move away from non-renewables – each wind turbine uses about 200 tons of steel.

Listening to Radio 4 this morning it sounds like all the usual back handers going on between companies and politicians.

Interesting that this all started with a Labour Council before getting any where near the conservative government (blood labour for balance)

Also said it was only a temporary measure.

Screams of someone wanting to make a fast buck at everyone else’s expense

It won’t save them but I guess that they can get a bit of political capital out of the scheme by claiming that a Tory government made a substantial investment commitment in the North which presumably an incoming Labour government will scrap.

You’d like to think financial reality will kick in and it will be consigned to the bin with (what have been more useful) flagship projects in the north like the British Volt factory, anything on Teeside, freeports, HS2 and all the other amazing levelling up NPH projects that are going exactly nowhere fast.

However to clarify my earlier point what I was getting at is that opencast/strip mines are still being opened* and mined, for coal to burn, and never make a whisper on the national news, but this (relatively) green coal mine for a type of coal the world kind-of still needs for steel which we’re definitely not getting rid of any time soon is causing some kind hullabaloo. Which I think is weird.

* EG the one they opened 2 miles from my house, in 2019 IIRC.

Does anyone know how they are planning to staff this new mine? Will they be importing all the mining industry engineers?

Still a few mining engineers about in the UK, though ever decreasing as course numbers dwindle, and most end up working abroad as young grads for obvious reasons. Takes a decent offer to attract them back.

Imagine they will use a mining contractor initially, with oversight from an owners team. My understanding is they were looking at advancing existing excavations (once they’ve pumped the water out) using pretty standard machinery. Would take a couple of years to train some locals up as operators and gradually displace imported experience with homegrown.

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>Double post</span>

Is this one of those double posts?

There be strange happenings on this ‘ere forum. Probably the ghostly echo of a troubled previous post.

So, it seems:
Either the coke is for domestic use and UK steel production will now be more polluting (higher sulpher content). No good for our green credentials + sends the steel industry backwards.
OR
The coke is for export and that’s ok because other countries can pollute what they like. Makes the govt look like lying buggers and no good for our stewardship of the planet.