That Maxxis "babes calendar" article…

molgrips and Big Dummy have it.

and it is either pathetic trolling by weeksy – or he is a just a teensy bit uncertain of his own sexuality and has to wave a “I’m macho and like calendars with boobs” to convince himself he is still straight… 😉

As my wife has also contributed:

Because it’s on public display, latently sexist men can see it, women threatened by sexist men can see it, but also kids can see it. I don’t want my daughters growing up thinking that this is sexy, that this is how you please men – by being complicant and submissive, and showing your arse. You don’t have to offer yourself as an object.

I think the reason so many men here don’t get it is because they *aren’t* sexist, not because they are.

As promised/threatened a couple of images from my 2016 calendar.

And off we go into ‘Art? Or cheap titillation/objectification?’ Territory

Bicycle companies (not specifically tyre-related) have a reasonably long history of exploiting the female form. Some I view as art, and some as cheap 70s man ‘phwooaaAhlookitKNOCKAzonTHAT?!’

Far be it from me to judge which is which on behalf of someone else. To some men, all ‘knockers’ are on ‘that’. They are the type that see product (female flesh) selling product (rubber) and this is a naturalised state of affairs in their cultural niche (garage walls in male-dominated workplaces)

I don’t want my daughters growing up thinking that this is sexy, that this is how you please men – by being complicant and submissive, and showing your arse. You don’t have to offer yourself as an object.

Why then is Lovehoney so Popular ? Victorias Secret opening lots of new shops ? Why do women go out and spend fortunes on underwear ? Because being sexy is GOOD. Being sexy makes both the man and the woman feel good… you’re not being submissive, you’re doing what’s completely natural. Showing your arse is a GOOD thing… Jeez.

How do we feel about this:

POTENTIALLY NSFW

http://www.hotshotscalendar.com/pages/help-for-heroes

Page 3 girls and similar do a calendar. Not strictly nude from what I can tell. Proceeds go to Help For Heroes

Congratulations on summing up my thoughts every time I read one of your posts

Euro – what other properties does that paper have? for example, is that smutty filth wipe clean?

Am I the only one who’s utterly incredulous that we’re 11 pages into a a raging argument about sexism and not one person has suggested a cup of Chamomile tea to calm everyone down.

Nobody.

I is disappoint.

<flounces>

How about a white wine for the little lady?

weeksy

The love honey and other stuff is about women taking control and owning their sexuality. Women like sex too.

The calendars and page 3 type stuff is about men deciding and determining what it, and women’s roles should be.

Got that?

This is a good point from molgrips

“I think the reason so many men here don’t get it is because they *aren’t* sexist, not because they are”

I’ve been reading the posts all along in this thread, and struggling a little. I may get flamed for this, but I like looking at pictures of naked ladies. A large number of the replies in the ‘against’ category have been making me question whether I am indeed being sexist/stuck in the 70’s etc for that reason. I’m fairly sure I’m not!

POTENTIALLY NSFW

Going back to the late 80s (don’t know what it’s like now, any mechanics/factory workers here may enlighten) – ‘NSFW’ would be sort of redundant, at least concerning the female form. Worked in a garage and a few factories where gynaecologically fecund middle-page spreads where evidently ‘SFW’!

This place is crazy.

Men look at women. It’s how it works. That’s why over millions of years women look the way they do. They look better than men. men like it.

You can argue about the last 100 years all you like, but you are fighting against millions of years of evolution.

for what ever reason, men have evolved to be more visual than women when it comes to sex.

There is a reason why men are physically stronger and more aggressive than women, they are disposal. Hence they are the ones who hunt and fight to support their “tribe”. Women are more important for the continuity of the species. In theory, 1 man can reproduce more than once per day, a women takes 9 months. If you lose 90% of your men, you can still come back, lose 90% of your women and you’re fecked.

Women are attracted to “powerful” men, men who can protect them and their children. Anyone going to dispute that?

I like looking at pictures of naked ladies, and I’m in the against camp. It’s possible to like looking at pictures of naked ladies and not think using them as a marketing tool is acceptable.

I’m thinking this a big part of where some people’s misunderstanding comes from – it’s all about context. Nobody is suggesting there is anything wrong or “70s” about natural desires. You can also do what you like in private. Having such pics up in public is an issue because it makes some women feel uncomfortable and reinforces stereotypes. Having such pics on marketing material is wrong because they might be put up in public, and even if not it’s still reinforcing societal sexism.

In summary, nothing at all wrong with your natural feelings.

There is a reason why men are physically stronger and more aggressive than women, they are disposal.

Who is ‘disposal’ (sic)? The man who dies in pursuit of his womans dinner? She just gets a new man, right? Or the woman who dies whilst protecting herself and children from an attacker while her man is at work looking at naked calendars? He just gets a new woman? Right? 🙄

You can argue about the last 100 years all you like, but you are fighting against millions of years of evolution.

And tigers eat their offspring, and chimps engage in infanticide, cannibalism and rape.

Great argument….

(edit – apologies to self and others if have responded to a trolling)

chimps engage in infanticide, cannibalism and rape.

Errr….. so do humans……particularly that last one.

“I think the reason so many men here don’t get it is because they *aren’t* sexist, not because they are”

I’d thought something along those lines yesterday but didn’t post it as i’m not really into internet arguing. My theory was that perhaps the ones who protest so much used to think about women in the ‘bad way’ but have now seen the light. They maybe assume that everyone else thinks the way they used and feel the need to convert all men into think as they do now. The fact is that not everyone treats women as objects and there’s no need to try and convert us. (perhaps weeksy needs a bit of work 😛 ) It’s what i’d like to call the ‘Born again identity’ theory.

Euro – what other properties does that paper have? for example, is that smutty filth wipe clean?

I’ve not tested it on anything other than coffee. Does that make me gay? 😀

Men look at women. It’s how it works. That’s why over millions of years women look the way they do. They look better than men. men like it.

You can argue about the last 100 years all you like, but you are fighting against millions of years of evolution.

for what ever reason, men have evolved to be more visual than women when it comes to sex.

There is a reason why men are physically stronger and more aggressive than women, they are disposal. Hence they are the ones who hunt and fight to support their “tribe”. Women are more important for the continuity of the species. In theory, 1 man can reproduce more than once per day, a women takes 9 months. If you lose 90% of your men, you can still come back, lose 90% of your women and you’re fecked.

Women are attracted to “powerful” men, men who can protect them and their children. Anyone going to dispute that?

@gobuchul – please tell me this was a joke post….

Errr….. so do humans……particularly that last one.
[/quote]

Yeah, let’s not fight millions of years of evolution

Gotta do the weights to get the dates!

If you aren’t six foot plus and built like a brick shithouse; you aren’t getting laid.

Nicely put molgrips.

If it’s anything, many years ago I would’ve put up the “I’m a strong independent female and I’m not bothered by this, I can give as good as I get in banter and don’t need anyone to argue for me” line.

I am now much more aware of we females are viewed in society and how really aggressive and nasty (yes I have deliberately chosen those words) some people’s views and actions are. I didn’t think I was particularly affected by this type of behaviour but looking back I can see I was very fortunate to have many strong, supportive male role models around me who probably did a lot to protect me from those people and their opinions.

However, some things did happen that I just thought “oh well, that’s blokes for you, get over it” and now I see that these I shouldn’t have let people get away with certain behaviours (nowt that bad, I’m not about to disclose or anything!). I too am learning about the world all the time and can see that whilst I am not necessarily bothered by something, certain things should be challenged because the effects are often much further reaching than I in my nice protected world can see.

My experiences are based on working on-site in the construction industry and the outdoor industry in the 90’s. I have spent most of my working life in male dominated industries and was usually the only female on-site these guys had ever worked with. It was an interesting and generally positive time, although one guy completely defaced my lovely pic of George Clooney ( I think it was him) I had up above my workbench. It was a headshot only and there were loads of scantily clad lady calendars all over the workshop!

Errr….. so do humans……particularly that last one.

tell me when…I have a wager…

although one guy completely defaced my lovely pic of George Clooney

That was me. Sorry. 😳

Worst. Batman. Ever.

All this hand-wringing ‘evolution means women should stay-at-home/take clothes off for tyre companies’ talk makes me wonder what happened? Female Britons of the Iron Age taught combat with swords. Did they not get the Memo From The Future via Keith in Marketing? Or did successive millennia of Christianisation put a different slant on women’s ‘place’, and one that we are only just realising? Women in Western Europe only just got beyond chattel status/to vote in the grand scheme of things. They have had more freedom/power in prior/different cultures – as such I would guess that it’s not a foregone conclusion that the female of the species remains ’emancipated.’

Reminds me of that book/film – ‘Orlando’. Powerful stuff. Can’t remember if it had knockers in it.

Once again – the level of outrage expressed by people like weeksy is far, far in excess of the ‘outrage’ in the initial article (or by anyone here who thinks the calendar is crap). But apparently she’s overreacting? Hmmm….

Molgrips and Binners have nailed it.

Can we end the thread now, please?

STW Overlords – can we also have a Trail Dog Calendar for 2017 please?

Go and spend some time in SWT favourite nirvana of Scantinavia Scandinavia and a few saunas will sort everyone’s hang ups (or down) out….

My experience from living in Scandi-land is that men enjoy looking at pictures of naked ladies, and that ladies treat them as silly boys rather than getting bent out of shape. It’s also my experience that you can talk to a beautiful woman without her glaring at you like you’re a mad rapist. Whether the equality came first, or the attitude came first, I have no idea.

You can argue about the last 100 years all you like, but you are fighting against millions of years of evolution.

You seem to have confused what our ancestors did and what is moral and what we should do now.

We also used to invade other areas, kill all the men folk and children and rape the women. I dont think it would be a convincing defence in court if i just blamed evolution if i did this now.

Secondly its easy to over rule evolution – I assume you manage to go the working day without feverishly copulating with any fecund female. Its really not hard to overcome our “genetic programming”

My theory was that perhaps the ones who protest so much used to think about women in the ‘bad way’ but have now seen the light.

What a load of bollocks I may as well say everyone who is really homophobic is secretly gay, I will accept it was not intended as a troll but your theory is BS.

I dont even know what “think about women in a bad way ” even means in this context and i have always [ from about 14] had females as my closest friends.

Why then is Lovehoney so Popular ? Victorias Secret opening lots of new shops ?

Perhaps exactly because of the calendars?

Perhaps the underwear is not a great example – but how about something like make up? It’s time consuming and not that pleasant to wear, and causes hassle, but many women feel the need to do it. Now, they might be doing it for themselves, because they want to look pretty for themselves – but a) why do they feel better when they look pretty? And b) who defines pretty?

a) Maybe because they feel that women need approval, because society is constantly talking about how women look as if it’s really important…?

b) Maybe pretty is defined by the men who make the calendars and the movies and the pop videos and the men who look at the calendars and the videos and approve…

Just to re-iterate, it’s nothing to do with appreciating your preferred sex visually. That is NOT the issue at all – we all do it. That’s how we’ve evolved. It’s about how we communicate because as social creatures we are influenced by the behaviour of everyone else.

Weeksy and others – a serious suggestion. Perhaps you should read some feminist literature or watch some movies, with an open mind – then you would hear the other side of the argument.

It’s all very well saying that this isn’t a problem when you simply haven’t experienced it – and you’re not likely to, cos you’re a man.

C) maybe the like to feel attractive and like to look pretty in their own eyes.

Malvern Rider – Member

All this hand-wringing ‘evolution means women should stay-at-home/take clothes off for tyre companies’ talk makes me wonder what happened? Female Britons of the Iron Age taught combat with swords. Did they not get the Memo From The Future via Keith in Marketing? Or did successive millennia of Christianisation put a different slant on women’s ‘place’, and one that we are only just realising? Women in Western Europe only just got beyond chattel status/to vote in the grand scheme of things. They have had more freedom/power in prior/different cultures – as such I would guess that it’s not a foregone conclusion that the female of the species remains ’emancipated.’

I don’t think anyone is saying that all women should stay in the kitchen (to paraphrase a little). There is nothing to stop women who want to wield swords from doing that and there shoudl be nothing to stop women who want to get the tits out from doing that either (non that that is happening in this calendar). The two things are not mutually exclusive. To make the leap from one slightly risque calendar, to the above quote is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read.

I do accept the last point about emancipation and all that, but I reckon theres far more to be lost than gained by taking offense at a very innocuous calendar. It potentially devalues all the other arguments which are far more significant.

think you missed the point molgrips was making chip : /

Adele has worked in exactly that “beauty” industry for all her professional life, Molgrips. She does beauty columns for the very magazines that most strongly promote the make up (Adele’s speciality as far as I can see) lingerie, physique and attitude that make up the “perfect” women according to women”s media. She talks about renewing her lip gloss in the final seconds before going to an important interview.

That’s all fine, who am I to criticise? However I can’t see much difference between a swim suit feature in Marie Clair and calendar girls except that the calendar girls are less likely to look anorexic.

There is nothing to stop women who want to wield swords from doing that and there shoudl be nothing to stop women who want to get the tits out from doing that either

You’re now arguing that as all avenues are equally as open to everyone, regardless of gender, and therefore sexism doesn’t exist?

It potentially devalues all the other arguments which are far more significant.

Only with people who aren’t very bright

I’m guessing you didn’t read gobuchul’s troll post about not fighting evolution.

C) maybe the like to feel attractive and like to look pretty in their own eyes.

Do you think if a shipload of little girls washed up on a desert island and were looked after by wolves they’d grow up to worry about makeup and lingerie? Really?

Society defines pretty. Look at those societies in wherever it is that value huge arses on their women, or the African ones that multilate their faces. And so far, most of that definition has been done by MEN indirectly, through such means calendars like these.

You really don’t get the difference in context?

You’re now arguing that as all avenues are equally as open to everyone, regardless of gender, and therefore sexism doesn’t exist?

Er, what? No i’m not. I’m saying “who the **** are you to tell women what they should or should not do?”.

As you (and I’ll spell this out because I know you wont get it otherwise – by “you” I mean the contributors to this thread who are of the opinion that this calendar perpetuates some fantasy male dominance over all women) seem to be saying to me.

Only with people who aren’t very bright

Quite so.

Stalemate?

No i’m not. I’m saying “who the **** are you to tell women what they should or should not do?”.

Re-read. I’m not saying women shouldn’t make themselves pretty or whatever else they want. I’m saying people should not create and display calendars like this. Because of the implications.

Implications of which you are seemingly unaware. Which might be a good thing, because it means they are not universal.