Smoking ban and Smokers

whereas I actually like beer.

Good point, I’d never even considered that as a criteria in pub selection. I can see you are a much betterer more discerning beerist than me so I’ll bow out :)

If public health is the priority, then the focus should be on vehicles.

of course, I agree with that, but using it as an argument not to do anything about smoking is just whattaboutery.

Is it? I’m not so sure.

To me, it’s a matter of resources. It’s similar to wasting time talking about putting number plates on cycles, or ramping up police operations to target cyclists for minor offences that pose little threat to anyone but themselves. Meanwhile 3,000+ people killed and seriously injured by motor vehicles each year, and a further 100,000+ injuries. Which one should we actually be spending time talking about if we want to make real change to people’s lives with a finite amount of resources?

There’s an argument that it could further stigmatise smoking and reduce it further overall, and that might be a fair argument. If we’re to look at what people are consuming into their bodies though, I’d rather see that focus placed onto our diet which is currently causing a health epidemic similar to the one caused by smoking in its heyday, yet is being largely ignored.

If a venue can’t exist without tobacco, it doesn’t deserve to exist. Non smokers make up 88% of the population.

I’m fairly sure social venues were just fine before it arrvied from the americas.

I bet the sanctimonious going to the non-smoking pub also don’t drink much and parade their screaming kids, see how that works out. I go outside the pub about once a month and scrounge a rollie and it’s bliss. Each to their own. As Robert Puttnam found, longevity can be a toss up between giving up smoking or enjoying social capital.

I guarantee you that if you asked any pub landlord or landlady  which group of people they’dlike to depend on for the survival of their business between:

a) the smokers having a fag in their beer garden

or

b) the kind of po-faced, self-righteous petticoat-soiler who thinks smoking outdoors (and much else besides) should be banned

… you’d have a unanimous 100% vote in one direction

We live in a capitalist consumer society where the laws of supply and demand are king and the customer is always right

Know any pubs that have banned smoking in their beer garden?

Me neither

I wonder why?

“I’d rather see that focus placed onto our diet which is currently causing a health epidemic”

Given your user name, I’d imagine that diet would be meat, lots of meat.

In general I’m agnostic about this (gave up smoking decades ago), except that I was at All Points East at the weekend to see LCD Soundystem. I was in the middle of the crowd and it was like going back to the 90s smoking-wise – I could handle the vapour and the occasional bit of weed smoke, but the cigarette smoke from the people around me was just constant and very annoying. My throat felt like I’d smoked half a pack by the end of the gig. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like there’s any plan to ban smoking in festival crowds.

I definitely notice people vaping more than smoking in the beer garden, the fruity minty bastards. **** off with your stupid candy floss smoke!

That said, I wouldn’t GAS if smoking was banned outright.

I can safely say one thing…

This thread has made me want to sit in the garden with a cigarette and I haven’t smoked for 16 years :—)

Without a doubt the initial smoking ban had a negative effect on the pubs in the village I lived in at the time, especially the mid week trade. The pub quizzes and games nights weren’t so much fun when half the attendees stopped coming! Within a few years at least a third of them had shut, a large part down to the drop in trade caused by smokers staying at home.

Things change though and in my current town the pub scene is probably as busy as it ever was, albeit in smaller bars rather than the tradition big pubs. The surviving pubs in my old village seem to be doing reasonably well too these days.

As for an out right ban, from my experience so few people seem to smoke now that I’m not sure it’s worth the agro, is it? If you included vaping I might be more interested but that’s unlikely to happen. I certainly don’t have strong enough feelings to get over excited either way tbh. Having spent a good portion of this year coming in and out of Leeds General Infirmary though, I have also witnessed the people standing outside smoking who are clearly dying from something that smoking isn’t going to help. Blows my mind that one!

For the record, one time 15 a day Marlboro Light smoker, stopped 12 years ago, never been tempted to vape.

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs.

Not here.  Loads of pubs locally – all doing great business.  The smoking ban had minimal effect on pubs

A car is a necessity to get to work.

Nope4 – its a choice and it impacts my life unfavorably

Know any pubs that have banned smoking in their beer garden?

Yes – I know of a few.  But then we had the smoking ban a year earlier here and folk just adapted

Meanwhile 3,000+ people killed and seriously injured by motor vehicles each year, and a further 100,000+ injuries. Which one should we actually be spending time talking about if we want to make real change to people’s lives with a finite amount of resources?

Many times that die from smoking.  79 000 at one set of stats

The original smoking ban did have a catastrophic effect on pubs.

As a smoker at the time I distinctly remember the first weekend of the smoking ban. I walked into my local – a proper old school boozer – and it was empty. Literally a couple of old dears sat with a sweet Sherry.

However, the beer garden was absolutely rammed. The landlord had ( somewhat sensibly with an eye on his profits) covered the beer garden over with gazebo’s and put patio heaters in. The pub had basically moved outdoors. People who were non-smokers were sat outside because ‘it’s dead in there and it sounds like you lot are having a right laugh out here’

My local here is another old school boozer where the landlord doesn’t give a flying **** if you vape indoors because he knows his market. If you did a survey of all the regulars (of which I am one) about banning smoking in the (tiny backyard) beer ‘garden’, every single one of them would tell you to give your head a wobble

Any pub landlord can put a sign up saying ‘no smoking in the beer garden’. They haven’t though, have they? Why? Because they’re not stupid.

Clearly very loicalised because round here the pubs boomed after the smoking ban

It was patently obvious that none of them ever went near a bloody pub except for once a year when they were on holiday in Cornwall where they’d invariably be that **** that asks the bar staff if they can do them a pot of tea

Nothing to add to the smoking ban arguement…..but that above is literally my mum!! She even takes her own tea bag FFS!

Less than 13% of over 18’s smoke. If pubs can’t turn a profit from the other 87% of the population then they’re doing something wrong.

but that above is literally my mum!! She even takes her own tea bag FFS!

Two of the pubs I drink in will happily make someone a pot of tea :-)

Less than 13% of over 18’s smoke. If pubs can’t turn a profit from the other 87% of the population then they’re doing something wrong.

Maybe they know their market? Just a thought.

Regarding the comparison between passive smoking and the inhalation of fumes or harm from vehicles well I’m pretty sure the population simply accept this as collateral damage for the benefits that modern transportation provide…where as smoking only gives comfort to the individual. Having said that I accept that the wife smokes as it keeps her calm and gives me a quiet life so there is that.

White van man can get to the building site to do some work with half a tonne of tools without having a fag on. But can’t grt there without the diesel engine.  Its not as though he’s fuelling rhe motor with 20 B+H or JPS Specials.

I don’t really see any point in an outdoor ban unless there’s any actual evidence of harm, and I’m not aware of any

Err… The effects of secondary smoke inhalation have been known for years and years.

Oh leave them alone, thats their part of the pub. They’re out there, all weathers, rain and snow. Just because it’s summer and some now want to sit outside, so propose kicking smokers out.

I guess if you are smoker, you are against the ban.  While there may be some considerate smokers who would leave the beer garden to go and smoke in a quiet area of the car park, most are inconsiderate and will happily light up in a crowded beer garden.  Even if they are in the minority.

Either way I don’t see why my health and enjoyment of a pint should be compromised due to others cigarette smoke.

Imagine them trying to enforce a smoking ban outside a football ground.

It won’t happen.

Part of me wonders if this is the New Labour government borrowing a trick from their predecessors?

They’ve not said they’ll implement the blanket outdoor smoking ban, just that it’s something they’re “looking at“.

That’s been the kind of test marketing of policy that the Tories used since 2019, leak and idea or a recommendation and see how the internet/vox pops/news reactions go and then either adopt or back away from the idea.

I think the SKS government is going to keep borrowing Tory tricks like this TBH.

As for the idea of wider smoking bans in public places, yeah I’m in favour, dunno if Vapists would be included but I’d have no problem if they were. But then I’m not a smoker. TBH though it wasn’t top of my agenda, I’d have been fine with them just voting through the age based sales restrictions Rishi failed to put to a vote and saving this up for later.

As part of a wider set of public health measures it makes sense to give the idea a good run through debate and chuck some other things in the mix for that discussion. But let’s not use leaked rumours or SPADs secret briefings to choose policies via the court of public opinion. It’s not worked well for the last 5 years…

Thats the same nonsense folk said about the original smoking ban or the lower drink drive limit in Scotland.  Both of course turned out not to be true in any way.

TJ, you are banging the same drum after your initial post all the way through this thread.

I was actually talking to my best mate about it earlier, who happens to be a publican (his own pub/hotel).

We agreed that it massively hurt the industry the first time round and he is massively against this round of nonsense as it will affect business again. He’s a lifelong non smoker.

But of course your anecdotal observations mean everyone else is talking bollocks

Jesus H Corbett! You’re not Roy Castle performing in windowless working mens clubs every night, where every single member of the audience is chain smoking Carsten Full Strength

You’re sat in the open air in a ****ing garden where the odd person is having a fag with a pint

FFS get a grip. Do you really think this is the kind of think the government should be concerning themselves with?

ASTR – I suspect its actually different experiences in different areas. Sorry for banging on tho :-)

I have been going in the same pubs for 35 years on a regular basis.  They are as busy now as they have ever been.   I am friends with one of the landlords and chat to him about it all.

dunno if Vapists would be included

ruddy well should be – the argument is identical

Wonder when the pub trade will realise it may bring in NEW customers- those that don’t want to have to suck in 2md had fag fumes and chose not to go because of fumes ?

(Certainly puts me and Mrs off eating or drinking anywhere where there is fag smoke.  It’s not just pubs, but cafes too.)

Hopefully another £10 on a pack in the October budget to help fill the £22bln black hole

Either way I don’t see why my health and enjoyment of a pint should be compromised due to others cigarette smoke.

**** hell, it’s not like you’re sat in the lotus position readying yourself for a reiki massage. You’re in a beer garden chucking poison down your gullet.

“enjoyment of a pint” – have it at home where you belong.

I was actually talking to my best mate about it earlier …

While we’re sharing anecdotes, I remember the endless debate and dire threats of insurrection prior to the introduction of the smoking ban in Scotland. In the end it was a complete non event. Everyone just shrugged and got on with their (less smoky) lives. I suspect a wider public smoking ban would not actually bother many people at all. The number of people who genuinely smoke just for pleasure must be very small. The overwhelming majority are doing it because they are hooked on an extremely addictive habit. That’s why it’s not at all surprising to see seriously ill patients puffing outside the hospital entrance.

**** hell, it’s not like you’re sat in the lotus position readying yourself for a reiki massage. You’re in a beer garden chucking poison down your gullet.

“enjoyment of a pint” – have it at home where you

Guess you are a smoker then ? Enjoying a drink in the fresh air, it shouldn’t be contaminated with cigarette smoke.

If it annoys Patel, Jenrick and Farage it must be a good thing.

Never really sure why pubs closing is seen as such a bad thing, they only produce pissed idiots anyway.

I don’t do something that mildly annoys me, therefore it should be banned.

Cycling, dog owning, men with long hair, crocs, indie type music, fried chicken takeaways, ‘Athleisure’, horse racing, Crystal Palace … I don’t do any of them, but occasionally I find than mildly irritating or inconvenient, get rid of all of them.

I don’t drink alcohol and my life would be improved if other people didn’t, should I campaign for a ban? All your favourite pub gardens could serve tea and cheese on toast instead – I’m sure they’d be fine.

But of course your anecdotal observations mean everyone else is talking bollocks

Thank **** you disproved his anecdotal observations with your own.

at least in a pub/resterant you can sit inside

But that’s the point. Pre ban the smokers tended to be inside and those who liked the outdoors and fresh air sat outside. Post ban it’s hard to sit outside without the waft of someone’s cigarette smoke. Oh and it’s not so much the health issue that worries me, it’s just the smell. Same with vapes, I hate them.

There need to be hermetically sealed rooms the smokers and vapers can go to.

I just can’t figure out with all that is wrong with the country Starmer and Co think this is worth any attention currently.

Is he trying to get every cohort against him?

Do you really think this is the kind of think the government should be concerning themselves with?

No I definitely don’t. Not currently anyway.

Enjoying the polemics on this thread lol.

I think it should be either vapers or smokers that are banned but not both. I’d ban vapers! Hate the sickly sweat smell.

I just can’t figure out with all that is wrong with the country Starmer and Co think this is worth any attention currently.

Have you bothered to read the reasoning?