Slippery roots and rocks technique advice and possible bad workman blaming tools

Hi all, following a rather damp ride today, I was after some advice on climbing wet rocks and roots. In a nutshell one of my wheels usually slips when I am climbing fairly steep stuff when its wet. The worst is when my back wheel just spins out after i have put in a burst of power and it really throws my weight off, sometime to the point where i feel like i almost go over the bars. Also front wheel slipping sideways on off-camber roots.

Of course picking a better line is not always an option…

This means often that i don’t put in max effort over wet roots or rock clusters, as i expect to just slip.

I’m running Kenda Nevegals at around 30psi. (didn’t check yesterday for exact numbers) Much lower and i get pinch punctures on the rock gardens on the way down.

Thanks in advance!

Can’t say without seeing the trail, but this sort of stuff is very tricky to get grip on and ride.

Think you’ll find that everyone has the same problem 🙂

You could try some new tyres, I have black chilli rubber queens and they help a bit. Run tubeless so you can have lower pressure in your tyres. Don’t think your going to slip because no doubt you will….oh and try to stay seated to keep weight on your back wheel when going uphill.

wrsists and ankles dropped, weight central on bike, tubeless tyres, trailstar or similar tyre compound and realx!

I would stay seated and spin up the climbs if possible, always scanning to see if anything is going to cause you trouble, like wet roots or slick slab etc and timing your power bursts between those obstacles.

As you probably know, steep out of saddle climbing is all about keeping your weight low on the bike, but far back enough to keep traction, forward enough to keep the nose down. Also a good rear tyre helps with this, but technique is key!

As for the roots coming down, stay loose on the bike (point your knees outwards abit if you can) and let it move under you as you take the straight line through it. A bit more speed usually helps to just bounce straight through that nasty patch out slippery roots.

Anyway that’s what works for me 🙂

Practice, and keep your speed higher so you can stop pedalling more when you need to coast over stuff.

I know sometimes it’s too steep to keep speed up, just need to get fitter then…

it feels like I’m not climbing smoothly, in that i slip when I really put the power down to get over something. Perhaps an easier gear and smoother pedaling.

Smooth is the key. Much easier with more momentum but its hard to keep that up when climbing. Putting a burst of power down will definitely cause a slip. As above its hard.

Get off, push around the obstacle, get back on again

Works for me

rocketman – Member
Get off, push around the obstacle, get back on again

Works for me

Thing is with that, my ‘ride’ would quickly become a ‘hike whilst pushing a bike’

It’s just hard tbh! Though if they are oem spec or older UST nevegals that won’t help either, they’re terrible (the normal aftermarket ones are fine)

Original spec Nevegals on 2013 Norco sight killer b 3.

Does that mean i can blame my tools?

Perhaps an easier gear and smoother pedaling

not necessarily, SOMETIMES, and there is no right answer, pushing a slightly bigger gear works better than spinning a smaller gear.

One section I know, a bigger gear makes it easier to loft the front wheel over a root step. and a little easier to keep traction on the gravel that follows after the first step and before the next root step.

Practice is the only answer

Mmm, don’t know, they might have paid the extra 3 pence for the good ones. If they’re very black and shiny more likely the duffers, if they’re a little grey-ish and dull then probably the real thing.

You can still blame your tools anyway, Nevegals used to be officially good and loved by STW then one day abruptly they were Out and got a total slagging ever since 😉

found this

says about using power through whole pedal stroke not ‘stomping’ as this can cause some slips. I run flats so will have to train myself to scrape stuff off my shoe (something i knew i should be doing)

First, arrive at said climb with plenty of speed to carry you up.

Second, ever seen a trials motorcyclist accelerating up a slippy slope? Where is his weight? Over the back wheel! Where is your weight when pedalling hard? Over the front wheel!

Learning to hang off the back will help with traction a lot. Think of pushing the pedals forwards, not down, but still keep a bend in your arms and your chest low.

If there are some big lumps to get over, accelerate ’til the front wheels’s over, rock forward to pull the back wheel over, then over the back to apply more power.

(Or just buy an uplift.)

Northwind – Member
Mmm, don’t know, they might have paid the extra 3 pence for the good ones. If they’re very black and shiny more likely the duffers, if they’re a little grey-ish and dull then probably the real thing.

You can still blame your tools anyway, Nevegals used to be officially good and loved by STW then one day abruptly they were Out and got a total slagging ever since

they are very black. wire bead.

I’m not great at technical climbing but I’m a lot better than I used to be! What’s worked for me: Stand up (not forwards); pedal on the grippy bits, pump over the lumpy stuff; don’t ‘scrape your shoe’, instead start your pedal stroke earlier with a strong push forwards from your hips; run a rear tyre that you trust and tubeless for low pressure without pinching.

For wet roots on tricky inclines, momentum is key. And practice. Get off and really look for a line, it took me ages to clear a section on my local trails until I spotted the right line.

As others have said it is all about momentum and keeping the weight sufficiently over the back wheel. Slippery roots and rock will never be grippy if you are stalling and trying to inject some power, however smoothly applied. A bit like descending the slippy stuff, the best advice I’ve been given is to spot the grip and not worry about the slip. In other words, really focus on hunting out every little section of trail than can give you grip to build momentum to glide over the slippy stuff. Every little bit of loam between the roots, foliage to the edge of the trail, rock angled to give some grip, etc is your friend. Of course, how much you have left in the legs relative to the gradient is the bit that takes real hard work to overcome 😕

thanks all, I’ll try some of the tips. Must get a tyre I trust too! Any recommendations on that one? 27.5…

Practise. Twrch climb at cwmcarn is great for this sort of thing!

Need to shift between putting weight forward and back, depending on the gradient – enough forward to stop wheeling and enough back for traction. When you come to a root / rock try to cross it perpendicular and at a flatish bit if you can (normally close to the trunk). If it is steep you can pop a mini wheelie to get the front over by rocking back slightly, push the pedals hard and then unweight the rear and push the bars forward to roll over. You don’t want to be pushing the pedals hard when the rear is on the root trying to grip – that usually ends with a stem / groin interface.

If you have to ride a root at a camber and you can’t pop the wheels over (or bunny hop) try to anticipate the slide most of the time by staying loose on the bike you can catch it quite easily.

Tyres wise nevagals aren’t great imo, but certainly not terrible. I usually run mud x’s over winter. Lower pressure makes it easier, as does a 29 wheel over a 26.

Oh yea. Make sure you are in the right gear!

if standing, pull up on the opposite bar to the pedal that’s in it’s power-stroke.

I don’t think anyone’s mentioned this yet…

Assuming you are seated, looking up the trail and have chosen the smoothest line over the roots…

Increase cadence and your speed.
Still seated un-weight the front end by moving your head and shoulders up and back.
As your front wheel goes up and over the roots ease off on the pedals and let your body weight move forwards again. This needs to be a smooth transfer of weight.
So in other words, reducing the power going to the rear wheel reduced the chances of wheel-spin and shifting your body weight helpd maintain forward motion.

Thing is with that, my ‘ride’ would quickly become a ‘hike whilst pushing a bike’

That’s a pretty popular niche on here.

Good weight balanc, smooth cadence and light touch is my answer. If one of you tyres slips more then your weight is not right, shift it over said slipping wheel and if this still doesnt help different tyres might but if still no joy then chances are not many would get up that section and we’d all be walking, so chill and take a walk.

the best advice I’ve been given is to spot the grip and not worry about the slip.

Sums up perfectly what I was thinking my advice would be. Don’t forget to look ahead for where the grip is. I know I things start going wrong when I start looking right in front of my front wheel…

You often have to ‘jump’ from one patch of grip to another – not literally (ie wheels stay on the groud), but just accept that there’s going to be a slide between two safe, grippy bits. Looking ahead is key to this, and it also really helps keep the momentum people have mentions on rooty off camber bits. It also keeps the steering smooth, which helps.

Also, not all roots take you down the hill. Look for the ones pointing in the direction of the trail and use them. I try to float the front wheel over the ‘wrong’ roots, push the wheels onto the ‘right’ ones to keep height on the high side of the trail.

When it’s generally off camber, downhill foot down, too.

QECP is great for practicing this sort of stuff, if you’re local!

QECP is great for practicing this sort of stuff, if you’re local!

hmmm. You are not wrong there!

I rode late on Saturday afternoon after a day of drizzle. To be honest I bloody hate that sort of riding which is a real shame as that’s pretty much what local riding is for me.

I managed to have to dab a couple of times on the first climb on the red but it was the long traverse (hard shoulder?) that annoyed me most with the off camber roots really tricky. I find myself taking the progressively wider lines that are appearing to avoid the worst of it to give myself an easy life, which annoys me even more for doing it than the slipping in the first place!

To be fair a drop in pressure in both tyres, a little pressure out of the fork and the compression setting on the fork turned right down did help a bit.

I did resolve though that if it’s only slippy roots on offer it’s back to road riding for me.

I’ll try and check for the areas of grip. It’s the mud / rock / roots combo that really gets me.

Went out today, tried what you guys said and the best thing was either sitting down more and spinning easier gear, or standing up with weight further back. Pleased with progress

Across the globe bike bit manufacturers shake their heads at the complete lack of new kit being purchased by the OP trying to resolve his problem 🙂

lol 🙂