Prospective 1st time father at 45…GF and I are both terrified.. any insights?

Being a parent is very mixed but you’ll find very few that regret it.

Google suggests 1 in 12.

Yeah, a few mates (both sexes) have admitted as much.

The thing is here is everybody regrets nearly everything. It’s ok to have regrets, you will regret I either way, it’s coming to terms with those regrets that is important rather than expecting to live life without regrets. It’s unrealistic. Life is all about dealing with imperfections, compromises etc it’s better to admit a regret but except and move on than deny and try to convince yourself there is no regret.

I feel like these things are such fundamental life lessons. It’s the expectation of perfection that is wrong not the excepting of the imperfect.

Antenatal units in UK hospitals in our experience are pretty matter of fact about it, possibly because it’s simply so common.

My partner had some excellent care and understanding at 12 weeks. So as with many things there is luck.

The thing is here is everybody regrets nearly everything.

Really? I regret very few of the things i’ve done and choices i’ve made. Except for the obvious.
I’ve never expected perfection, and quite willing to accept the imperfect.

But the whole “parenthood” thing and how good it is, is misrepresented to some degree everywhere, media, family, friends, religion, medical profession.
Seems to be the default is that it’s the main reason people are put on this earth, and anyone who doesn’t lap up parenthood and love children is an evil monster.

As for all those who have felt pressure from relatives to have children, homosexuality is the answer!

Just on that point, there are several same-sex couples with kids at our school.

Seems to be the default is that it’s the main reason people are put on this earth, and anyone who doesn’t lap up parenthood and love children is an evil monster.

We weren’t ‘put on this earth’ but the whole point of any living organism is to continue its very existence and humans are no different to moss or haddock or daffodils in that respect.

I also take issue with your claim that ‘anyone who doesn’t lap up parenthood and love children is an evil monster’ – I haven’t seen that particularly evidenced here.

@thebrick

My partner had some excellent care and understanding at 12 weeks. So as with many things there is luck.

That’s encouraging to hear. I don’t think it’s solely the job of antenatal units, by the way. If people are more open about it, and it’s less of a taboo subject, it might cushion the blow a bit. Thanks for sharing, @thebrick – hope you and your partner are in a good place now.

We weren’t ‘put on this earth’ but the whole point of any living organism is to continue its very existence and humans are no different to moss or haddock or daffodils in that respect.

You’re begging the question that there is, in fact, a point.

I also take issue with your claim that ‘anyone who doesn’t lap up parenthood and love children is an evil monster’ – I haven’t seen that particularly evidenced here.

Here, perhaps not. In general society though, it’s a different story. It’s another of life’s great “but WWHHYYYYYY?!” stories. You must conform because we fear anything which is different.

You’ve almost insinuated it yourself just now, “the whole point of any living organism is to continue its very existence” so if someone chooses not to reproduce or can’t do so then their existence is pointless?

Thanks @bentudder

I regret very few of the things i’ve done and choices i’ve made. Except for the obvious.

Ok I wrote nearly everything what I mean more everyone has regrets. Which you admit you do and that’s my point, we all have regrets , there is nothing wrong with that it’s how deal with them and you shouldn’t be surprised if you have regrets. It doesn’t matter if it’s an important part of your life as these are the things you tend to fret over the most. You don’t consider and don’t regret the inconsequential. Regretting having kids is not the end of the world, it because it’s a big part of your life. The problem comes from the expectation of not having regrets. That’s the absurd thing. Regrets is just wondering what if but there is not what if there only is. We can wonder what is but it’s how you dwell on it that’s important.

“the whole point of any living organism is to continue its very existence”

I think that’s a bit clumsily put, and puts the cart before the horse. Nothing has a purpose. Living organisms today are the result of, the latest configuration, of millions of years of successful strategies. It’s more successful, generally, to quite like the babies you produce rather than want to drown them in the nearest lake at the first sign of trouble. And given the trouble, heartache and cost (financial or otherwise) of bringing a human child to adulthood, we have to get quite a kick out of the upsides.

And upsides are basically everything that isn’t a downside (but even changing a nappy can be an oddly enjoyable, intimate, loving experience) then there’s feeling their touch for the first time, smelling their skin, watching them do nothing, open their eyes, sleep, smile, spread yoghurt on their face or sudocrem on the cat, ride a bike for the first time, run towards you laughing when you pick them up from nursery, discover who they are and what and who they love….

Doesn’t mean there’s a point to any of it, a purpose, it’s just how humans tend to react when we have kids. It’s normal for there to be differences and outliers: there’s a bell curve. Everything from the end of one tail, through the top of the bell and out to the other tail is normal.

The problem comes from the expectation of not having regrets.

That’s sort of the point though. You might regret having children. People do. I think it’s pretty important for people’s mental health that that’s recognised and it’s not trivialised with “it’s not the end of the world, you’ll get over it”. Also, if it’s just swept under the carpet constantly, people aren’t able to make informed decisions.

Interestingly, according to https://sciencenorway.no/children/how-many-people-actually-regret-having-children/1898652 people very rarely regret not having children.

I think that’s a bit clumsily put, and puts the cart before the horse. Nothing has a purpose. Living organisms today are the result of, the latest configuration, of millions of years of successful strategies.

I think we are both thinking the same thing, just expressing it differently. Saying ‘successful strategies’ is just a more eloquent way of saying ‘the whole point’.

You’ve almost insinuated it yourself just now, “the whole point of any living organism is to continue its very existence” so if someone chooses not to reproduce or can’t do so then their existence is pointless?

Not at all – as humans we have developed sentience so we are able to make conscious decisions on an individual basis whether that be because we don’t want the emotional or financial responsibility of a child, that the child may take away our freedom, whether we feel the world is already an overcrowded place or whatever – humans are alone in having the ability to make decisions on such an intellectual level. It doesn’t automatically make the individual pointless.

I also take issue with your claim that ‘anyone who doesn’t lap up parenthood and love children is an evil monster’ – I haven’t seen that particularly evidenced here.

Maybe not here, but out in the big wide world, it’s endemic.

It doesn’t matter if it’s an important part of your life as these are the things you tend to fret over the most.

Yes, I “fret” over important things. Absolutely.

so if someone chooses not to reproduce or can’t do so then their existence is pointless?

In a genetic sense, most certainly. We’re all human beings though not human doings. Stopping to admire the view or smell the coffee and eat the cake is to be encouraged.

I woke up this morning to a whatsapp message from the friend i’ve known longer than any others with a photo of his new twin family members. Total surprise to me – i’d assumed he would never be a father. He and his wife are 43 and 44.

I’m excited for them. I think it will be harder than if they were younger, but still rewarding.

I know the thread was started from a parental sacrifice persepctive, but I can’t be alone in watching the news tonight, as a parent (of a 10 and a 7 year old), and wondering what the hell kind of world I’ve bought kids into. Not sure I’d be enthusiastically pursuing parenthood at the moment.

wondering what the hell kind of world I’ve bought kids into.

It’s always been like that though.
The hope is that my boys – hopefully inspired by their parents – will make the world a better place.

^ this.

Someone’s children will make this world a better place, by being the medics, scientists, artists and peacekeepers of the future.

We are heading in the right direction, but there will be challenges on the way. Just because there are tough times ahead, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t keep moving.

We are heading in the right direction, but there will be challenges on the way. Just because there are tough times ahead, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t keep moving.

Nicely put.

^ this.

Someone’s children will make this world a better place, by being the medics, scientists, artists and peacekeepers of the future.

By that logic, someone may have cured cancer if they’d not had kids too. The scientist trying to cure cancer would have a lot more spare time to devote to their work if they were child free. Someone’s kid might kick of WWIV too. It’s not like every child born is going to advance humanity is it?

@tjagain had a pretty measured response. Don’t see why they copped the flak they did for their perspective. Even more uncomfortable to read all the posts saying “congratulations” when OP said they weren’t sure if they wanted to have child or not. I don’t recall people going around congratulating couples who are child free constantly. The default positon seems to be to assume “child on the way” == “good thing”. It isn’t always the case.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but for me. With or without kids, I would want my life to have purpose as I defined it. It could be anything like just having the best time you could, or curing cancer People who don’t have kids don’t have any less of a valid reason to exist.

People saying their kids are the best thing they ever did remind me in some way (though a lot more wholesome) of people who say “my parents battered me and I grew up fine”. They mean well, but they literally cannot know how the alternative would’ve turn out. They’re not so much biased as blinkered.

There are the practical questions for which you can put hedges in place. Let’s see if we can tick some of those off. And maybe some for the questions you didn’t.

– Can you support the child if x happens.
That’s what life insurance is for. If you’re that worried, get some.

– Will you spend the rest of your active life looking after this child?
You’ll probably spend a good chunk of it compromising on what you want to do. It depends on what your goals are. There’s a lot of activity you can get done before a child wakes up and after it goes to sleep in the early years. You won’t be able to go out for a ride on a whim for 12 hours because it’s a nice day in the early years. So evaluate your goals accordingly.
Adding to what you said about you being an immigrant. Do you have any family support? If you don’t, then there’s a good chance that you and your partner won’t have a weekend to yourselves together for a good few years. Can you handle that? You maybe able to work something out if you have a good support network with friends who can do some childcare for you. Or even consider moving back for access to family support.
Assuming you have the child now. You’d be 63 when they turned 18. Last I checked, there were 60 year olds who rode bikes. By and large, I think that’s a wash. I will say having less time does force some people to find discipline.

– Finances.
No question, if you want to give your child a fair go, there’s less for you in the resource pool. If you can’t afford a house now, you’re not going to have access to more money with an additional dependent.

While considering the practicalities, are you comfortable with the other risks a later in life pregnancy carries? I think these days, a late 30s pregnancy is not as risky as it once was, but it’s a bit more risky than having a child younger. How would you feel for example, having to look after a child with severe learning difficulties?

For the not so practical things…

– Should you “man up”
Hate that term. Arguably, you and your partner are being braver by questioning whether this is the right choice for you. It takes a brave person to go against what society tells them. Your partner must love and respect you a lot to be able to be so open with you about such a difficult thought. I know a few people who have had a termination, and I would not call any of them cowards. A termination is an active choice that requires courage and a lot of thought. Not one of them has had it flippantly.
It’s more common for people to become paralysed by fear, and wait too long so they no longer have to make the choice.

– The positives
I’ve heard people compare the postives to tons of drudgery interspersed with moments of absolute bliss. I think it’s a fair comparison. The lows are a lot lower than you could ever imagine, and the highs are pretty high. However, I, personally, would not have a child simply to give meaning to my life.

Only you, and perhaps more importantly, your partner can make the choice now. Sure, you’re asking the right questions and that tips the balance in the favour of you being a better parent. However, that’s the baseline requirement for a decent parent. I hope you and your partner are happy with whatever you choose. Whatever you choose, you’re going to be set on a path from which there will be no turning back.

You won’t be able to go out for a ride on a whim for 12 hours because it’s a nice day in the early years.

Junior did his first cyclosportive in the baby seat of our tandem at 5 months. A Babyjogger took care of the running. At seven he did 160km in day on a kidiback tandem and 1500km in six weeks cycle camping in France and Germany.

Adding to what you said about you being an immigrant. Do you have any family support?

I’m an immigrant so there was no family around. We just included junior in everything we did. We put him on skis at 22 months and by three he was left pattering around the time keepers’ tent while we raced. At the pool we took it in turns to swim while one entertained junior.

My own feeling on reading about your situation OP, is that a shortage of cash associated with parenthood is more of a problem than parenthood itself. Cash can solve a lot of problems and provide solutions.

Junior has added far more to our lives over the last 24 years than he’s taken away, Im 61 now and spent a week ski mountaineering with him recently to prepare his Eurosécurité. We were lucky, he came out healthy and never questionned our lifestyle till he was too old for it to matter. I know we’re lucky because friends have had handicapped kids, sick kids and some difficult cases to deal with. They’re in the minority but a minority that is sobering.

One of the guys accompanying his daughter to ski races when she was 16 was over 70. Your age really isn’t the issue.

You’re going in, if you do, eyes open unlike some. It’s down to you two to decide, all the posts here won’t help much, it’s how you both feel about each other and the prospect of becoming three.