Private Education – Worth the money?

The LEA schools still need QTS

How many of them are there now?

It’s strange that currently I am recruiting for a couple of teaching positions, and I wouldn’t touch anybody who isn’t qualified. Most decent international schools won’t. The mickey mouse ones are a different matter.

Yet the UK where I look to recruit from, is allowing schools to hire unqualified/certified teachers.

madness

PS I’m after KS1 EYFS, KS3/4 English and an Art teacher if you know of any that are interested in working overseas.

Saves money doesnt it. Makes it easier to get a body in front of the class.

How many of them are there now?

Most of them ( just less than 21% of all schools are academies, as of September 2014). But its skewed as Its primaries that are mainly in LE control and they have are smaller

Not that it matters I was clarifying a point

Saves money doesnt it. Makes it easier to get a body in front of the class.

Colleges don’t have to employ qualified teachers but we do some times. We don’t think it saves us any money and if it did we still wouldn’t use unqualified to staff to save money

However some times the only person we can find to fill the post is unqualified

Many thanks for all the replies, you’ve given me plenty to think about. Appointment made with local prep school about a sports scholarship, I’m also going to speak to the headmaster of his current school to see if I can get any reassurances about the future there.
I’m sure I’ll be back with more questions soon, sorry!

Colleges don’t have to employ qualified teachers but we do some times. We don’t think it saves us any money and if it did we still wouldn’t use unqualified to staff to save money

Oops

Colleges don’t have to employ qualified teachers but we do some times, employ unqualified teachers. We don’t think it saves us any money and if it did we still wouldn’t use unqualified to staff to save money

To attempt to answer the OP.
Both my kids go to state school (currently 16 and 13).
I would look ahead to secondary school for your child.
I took a view that if the secondary school achieved at least SOME top grades and had GOOD/OUTSTANDING Ofsted then it would be OK.
If my children are not in those top grades then I blame myself and them for not taking advantage of the resources available.
I am also a governor at local school and its a good school. With more funding it would be so much better. Our education system needs more money.
I have close friends who recently pulled their child from a private school as it was not working for their child. Said child now goes to an outstanding state school and is much happier and flourishing.

So for me and my family: State all the way if there is a GOOD/OUTSTANDING school…and get involved! Schools are crying out for good governors to help in the running of the school. Use the money saved in private education to pay for any tutors your child needs.

Molgrips

Not really important. He wouldn’t be where he is today if we didn’t move him to the private system.

My other son was let down by two state schools and is surviving but not thriving in a third primary. So, yes, I feel the state SYSTEM has let my boys down. In my experience.

Clearly we all want the best for our kids and I’m sure most would put their kids in private schools if they could afford it.

However it is a huge financial undertaking, as once they are in, you won’t want to take them out. £15k a year for five years is £75k which would make a massive dent in your mortgage, free up your finances so you can all enjoy a better life without pressure. If you do it for one child you’re pretty much duty bound to do it for any others etc. what may seem affordable now may in a couple of years be less so, for reasons unknown.

Therefore, if I was you I’d be looking at every alternative option before I went down that route.

We can only give our own perspective. Heres mine. I went to a local state school, likewise so did my wife, I did fine, academically school was no strain, went on to uni, good degree etc. That said, throughout school I was a always a bit on the shy side, and in the working environment it took me quite a bit of time to gain confidence. To me, and looking at my education, the state school was good from an academic perspective, but didn’t give me the opportunities to get into sport or try something like music or drama (it was in the 80’so with all the various strikes there was absolutely no extra curricular activities).

Looking at my eldest son, who has just stated private school last yr aged 5, I could see a lot of myself in him, in the right environment he would be confident, happy and eager to engage but when out of his depth or in a large group, his shyness would allow him to drift somewhere into the group and not be seen or heard. The private school we chose is small, class size of 7 in his present year group and with that the amount of attention he gets is 3 to 4x more than the state sector based on class sizes. More importantly the schooling is very personal, the teaching staff have the time to help him find his talents and whatever they may be, they can help develop them.

From a financial perspective, clearly its a massive under taking, but I am confident we can scrape through, expensive holidays, fancy cars, dare I say it, new bikes are not the be all and end all. Seeing my son eager to learn and experiencing everything the school can throw at him means I am in no doubt we made the right choice. OP I hope you too can make the right choice whatever that may be.

I’m sure most would put their kids in private schools if they could afford it.

Not so sure tbh as a number on here have said they would not do this and plenty can afford it and dont.

For me its not a cost/affordability issue. It’s the fact that I believe state schools should be and CAN work for all. Clearly there are some sink schools (plenty where I live) but good parenting is more important than private school.

Molgrips

Not really important

It is to those state school teachers and education workers who do a great job, and you just labelled as bad. That is my point. Do not judge an entire system based on a couple of bad experiences. But that is another thread.

Having just got in from a school performance of Mozart’s requiem, it’s clear in my mind that there are wider benefits. Breathtaking….

State schools have music too, THM.

Indeed they do mike – my SIL makes sure of that.

Molgrips

I’ve yet to meet a parent of a dyslexic that’s been happy with the provision afforded by the state system.

As I’ve said before, I’m sure it’s fine if you’re kids are mainstream.

Much as I am a massive fan of classical music [ Grade 8 ] I prefer pieces that are both completed and a lot less religious.
As others note, including you, state schools can be equally adept at promoting archaic music that almost no one listens to.

Most private schooled adults I meet seem more dependent on mum and dad, but life does appear to be easier for them.

I’m sure most would put their kids in private schools if they could afford it.

Not so sure tbh as a number on here have said they would not do this and plenty can afford it and dont

Most people in Scotland voted to stay in the Union Junky!

Private schools traditionally have a tendency towards turning out kids with a bit of superiority complex, which is laughable considering..

It can take a while for the victim to grow out of this unfortunate delusion in some cases IME

Teachers as state schools dont need to be qualified now either Quirrel.
In academies and free schools

The LEA schools still need QTS
This is England. North of the border you have to hold registration with GTCS, that includes a qualifying education degree or PGCE/PGDE, and update every five years at a level of learning ‘equivalent to masters’. I predict up here we we will have teachers holding masters as a matter of course shortly.

I also want to say that good teaching and learning has little to do with social status, fees paid, deprivation, learning difficulties and a hundred other excuses. Some of the best schools and teachers I work with are in challenging areas – and yet thier learning success is huge.

Teachers and staff are there to help children exceed what they are already capable of. Therefore your support of your child is also vital – but that does not mean pressure and hothousing.

My children go to some ‘the best’ state schools in Scotland, yet I really dislike the culture (in the secondary particularly). Snowplough parenting and hothousing is rife. Many of the children seem to succeed in spite of the teaching, rather than because of it. Our school has amazing exam results. And the highest dropout rate at university of any school in Scotland – and massive mental health issues alongside. Scary stuff.

The culture of a school is set by leadership. Op, I would encourage you to visit some other schools locally, and ‘feel’ the culture and children’s experiences be fore you write off ‘poor’ schools based on league tables, or decide that £15k p.a. Buys you a ‘good’ learning experience.

In the nrws this am. Best funded schools get around 6k per child per year. Worst 4k. Excluding Pupil premium. Compared to easily twice that spent per pupil in most private schools. Money talk despite all the noble views

Most people in Scotland voted to stay in the Union Junky!

I am not seeing the relevance of that point to this thread or that comment…I blame my flimsy state education for this.

The private school we chose is small, class size of 7 in his present year group and with that the amount of attention he gets is 3 to 4x more than the state sector based on class sizes.

Except it is proven that class size has minimal effect on pupil performance, compared to all the other things teachers and schools could be doing.

More importantly the schooling is very personal, the teaching staff have the time to help him find his talents and whatever they may be, they can help develop them.

^ this is just good teaching. And that can be found all over the place, not just private schools. Again, look up what is effective for teachers to do with their time and effort, for the best results. Things like formative assessment, micro-teaching, Piaget style learning, teacher credibility, relationship with children, differentiation, flipped classrooms etc etc are all WAAAAAAAAY more effective than having a weeny class size.

Best funded schools get around 6k per child per year. Worst 4k. Excluding Pupil premium. Compared to easily twice that spent per pupil in most private schools.

Sixth form colleges get £4k per student and we’ve had our funding slashed in recent years. A couple of years ago, a journalist phoned the town’s private school to see what they were doing that made Darlington stand out on the map of OxBridge uni admissions, compared to the rest of the region. They had to give the journalist our phone number because it was our students going there, not those from the private school 🙂

Late to this, to OP, Yes if you can afford it and it’s a good school.

All 3 of us went (day pupils)
Parents remortgaged to house to pay for it.
I’m a bit dyslexic so helped me hugely , brother and sister both got scholarships are they’re pretty clever & both have very good jobs.

Parents sacrificed quite a lot to pay for it though.

We’re lucky with our 2 as we have a very very good state school locally, but if this goes downhill we’d consider it but would be a proper stretch financially.

Things like formative assessment, micro-teaching, Piaget style learning, teacher credibility, relationship with children, differentiation, flipped classrooms etc etc are all WAAAAAAAAY more effective than having a weeny class size.

If you accept Hattie’s research, which not everyone does[/url]. But that’s probably a debate for a different thread/day 🙂

They had to give the journalist our phone number because it was our students going there, not those from the private school

Although this would have probably been because the universities have been forced to take more students from state schools and that the average state school has 3x the number of pupils than an average private school.

Only one more term of fees to go 🙂

But very sad to watch last competitive match this weekend. Still might be able to buy a nice bike and car next year!

Still view it as the best investment I could have made and worth the sacrifices. Who needs a fancy car?

We choose to send both out boys to a local independent school from age 7 till 16. It was not just the smaller class sizes or quality of teaching that swung it for us, it was also the extra-curriculum activities (sport, music, chess, etc), the fact that they develop the child not just academically but in the round.

The other point that is often not spelled out is that disruptive children are often thrown out of independent schools. They don’t have to be inclusive or accept bad behaviour. In our case I knew of at least a five who were asked to leave, and that is after warnings for behaviour. Teachers can focus on teaching not on crowd control.

At 16 both choose to move to the local 6th Form college, since they had got fed up with the inclusiveness of the school.

The other point that is often not spelled out is that disruptive children are often thrown out of independent schools.

THIS is a real risk – especially at boarding schools. “Normal” teenage behaviour at the weekends remains against rules with suspensions and expulsions quite easy to get!

Late to this too –
my youngest has been entirely privately educated (thanks to grandparents mostly) and he’s lazy but bright, academic and has gone to good private schools and is now looking at Oxbridge for uni

My middle son (thanks to my ex-) ended up going a state academy, he’s lazy, hated the school, not academic and has ended up with not many qualifications. Now working nights at ASDA

The son of a friend went through the state system (catholic school) but he’s pretty determined, bright and academic.

The key factors seems to be parental support but this applies to both state and private.
Whether the kid likes the school – there are good and bad in both state and independent sectors
but to succeed in the state sector I think the kid needs to be self-driven, in the independent sector they will be pushed, cajoled and encouraged to get the best out of them. The state sector the kid has to want/need it for themselves as the system is more geared up to getting an education to all rather than excellence.

They had to give the journalist our phone number because it was our students going there, not those from the private school

Although this would have probably been because the universities have been forced to take more students from state schools and that the average state school has 3x the number of pupils than an average private school.[/quote]

We’ve got about 2000 students, so we’re quite a bit bigger than the private school, but it’s a long-standing trend so it’s not down to changes in admissions policies. Ten students this year have offers from Oxford or Cambridge, from around 700 uni applicants in our second year.

Our results are better on almost every performance measure, despite being non-selective.

is just good teaching. And that can be found all over the place, not just private schools. Again, look up what is effective for teachers to do with their time and effort, for the best results. Things like formative assessment, micro-teaching, Piaget style learning, teacher credibility, relationship with children, differentiation, flipped classrooms etc etc are all WAAAAAAAAY more effective than having a weeny class size.

All these things are much easier to do with a small class.

in the independent sector they will be pushed, cajoled and encouraged to get the best out of them.

Of course.. not every kid responds to that… If private schools are results driven that might result in too much pressure for some people.

Interesting to here from you Miketually

I use to live in Darlington and teach in Northallerton

Now I teach at Luton Sixth Form College. Looks like your college is doing a great job, impressive stuff

Although this would have probably been because the universities have been forced to take more students from state schools and that the average state school has 3x the number of pupils than an average private school.

Private schools have about 8% of pupils but these pupils gain 50% of the places at Oxbridge. My experience is that they see themselves as simply seeking the best students (who could get a 1st) rather than, so they say, what school they went to. However I have seen a lot of unsuccessful privately educated applicants for Oxbridge and medicine. Sadly their sense of entitlement comes and bites them on the bum, hence the ‘Oxbridge reject’ syndrome crippling people for the rest of their lives. Last year a friend was on a medicine interviewing panel where they unanimously rejected a head boy from a top HMC school in London. That would have enraged a few people expecting to pay their way into high places.

Although this would have probably been because the universities have been forced to take more students from state schools and that the average state school has 3x the number of pupils than an average private school.

Best mate did admissions for 3 years at an Oxford College (over 10 years in his subject)

For him the private school student has more to proove. The worry being that they have peaked at A-level in a system that left them with less need to work independently

But its all about the best students, not quotas

Yet the UK where I look to recruit from, is allowing schools to hire unqualified/certified teachers.

Quirrel – you’ve said this twice now, and in the case of Scotland (still part of the UK) that is incorrect. All teachers state or independentMust Be fully registered with GTCS and that means having your teaching qualifications in order. And as of last year, teachers in Scotland have a professional review which is completed in 5 yearly cycles to ensure that they have quality CPD and reflection on their own roles/performance.