Petition to stop unnecessary stone pitching in the Lakes

Following some ongoing, and rather heavy handed repair work by Fix the Fells on the classic Boredale Hause descent into Patterdale, a petition has been started. Can you take a moment to sign it and then give it a share. Trying to make our voice heard as loudly as possible before it’s too late.

You can see the repairs here: https://www.facebook.com/fixthefells1/posts/2187346018160827

and the petition is here: Petition

Looks like a decent job to me, it’s not the whole trail they’re doing is it?

I’ve signed it.

@km79 – they’re doing most of both the bridleway and the footpath. I’d be keen to know why you think it looks like a decent job, because you’re the first rider I’ve heard say that.

<h1 class=”post-title”>unnecessary</h1>

Aye well, there’s the rub. Without knowing a lot more about the area, the current condition of the paths and the volume of traffic, I’d say it’s damn near impossible to say what is and isn’t necessary.

I have to say that, from the photos, I’m not seeing what’s wrong with the work and I can also see that the existing track has ended up in a gully with folk now walking/riding on the land alongside it. That will just add to erosion.

Aye well, there’s the rub. Without knowing a lot more about the area, the current condition of the paths and the volume of traffic, I’d say it’s damn near impossible to say what is and isn’t necessary.

Because there are better ways to fix a bridleway, read some of the comments and replies – thanks but we consulted, thanks but we, thanks but….

@scotroutes – Fair enough. I guess most of the issue lies with the manner in which the repairs are being done – I don’t think many riders, walkers or runners are fans of stone pitching and want to see the practice eliminated or reduced unless absolutely necessary.

Ironically, there is one particular section where the trail has widened over time, because people are avoiding walking on existing stone work.

I’d be keen to know why you think it looks like a decent job, because you’re the first rider I’ve heard say that.

Because I’ve walked and ridden a lot of different paths and for some places which suffer from over use and erosion it’s a good way to fix it and it lasts a lot longer than some of the other methods.

Ironically, there is one particular section where the trail has widened over time, because people are avoiding walking on existing stone work.

That’s the problem there. People DGAF and it’s always someone elses problem to sort out.

Your OP was lacking in any sort of background info, if you’re looking for people to support a cause then it’s better to provide some basic details.

Agree with the petition.

Another angle to consider is the other main user of the bridleway – horses.  I’ve ridden that many times over the last 25 years on horse and bicycle and I would consider the stone work to be not desperately suitable for horses/ponies either.

As in the Yorkshire Dales there seems to be a complete lack of accountability or genuine consultation before making widespread and expensive changes

I think the more pertinent question is whether its legal to surface a bridleway like that – I would imagine the horse riders aren’t best impressed.

@ninfan – we hadn’t even considered the legality of it!

Was keen to get all excited about another trail ruined. But those steps are quite small will clear easily ont hte mtb downhill and it actually looks doable to me to ride up them, welcome new challenge pity its a bit far from me.

Is the footpath higher up.and rockier IIRC? If so, it’s a better descent anyway….😁

@hofnar – the steps are relatively small, but there weren’t steps in the first place. As has been mentioned above, there has to be a more sympathetic way to repair erosion damage. Plus, the steps are easier and less interesting to ride.

@nobeerinthefridge – unfortunately not. The footpath is the lower path and they’re working on that one as well.

Have a chat with the folks at peakdistrictmtb, they’re dealing with the opposite problems in the peak park!

from my experience this is the only way to stop heavily used paths deteriorating into wide eroded messes.  The only other option is to put big water bars and runnoff channels in every few feet.  thats steep enough to me to require pitching imo

justinbeiber – what would you consider a better way?  Any examples of this?  I have never seen any for routes that eroded and steep

They need to tarmac it surly the lazy feckers

Looks like a good job to me? The pictures dont really paint a very good picture without any additional information but it looks to me like well made steps to take the heavy traffic.

for horses?

Im not a rider so i have no idea, but if i was a horse id much prefer that to some of the loose stuff you see in the peak or even the lakes. If you cant maintain a worn path to deal with the level of traffic then what option is there?

This is a trail for everyone. Fix the fells cant be expected to repair a trail with the 0.1% (horse and mtb) of users in mind. Any other method will be wrecked within a year and a gigantic waste of money.

Consider – what is better for your own niche sport or everyone else (99.9% hikers) who visit the lake district, and the long term preservation of the fells. Not much point spending thousands of pounds to preserve (at best average) mtb trails for a year or two when you can spend the same amount and not think about it for the next decade…

Don’t sign this, support fix the fells. In these times of austerity any actions to support our national parks should be supported by anyone who loves the outdoors.

This is a trail for everyone. Fix the fells cant be expected to repair a trail with the 0.1% (horse and mtb) of users in mind. Any other method will be wrecked within a year and a gigantic waste of money..

Why?

because any o0ther method will get washed out in the first winter.  thats why its done this way.

I would like someone to say what other method could be used?

erosion on lakeland paths need repairing.

seeing it only from a mtbers point of view is very narrow minded.

seeing it only from a mtbers point of view is very narrow minded.

You read the comments? It’s fairly universal criticism from all sides there.

I would like someone to say what other method could be used?

I’d like people be given the chance to discuss it.

I’m surprised to see such a negative view of people who spend loads of their time trying to help preserve our wild environments. Their work must surely be supported by the National Parks Authorities. If it is so offensive to some mountain bikers then find other routes!

To answer the most recent point, I’m not approaching it purely from an MTBers point of view. When I’m out walking or running, I prefer loose, interesting trails. Not steps.

Also, in winter time and when it’s wet, these steps are going to be lethal.

As for whether these trails are average, I beg to differ. This was one of the best singletrack descents in the lakes. Way above average.

Finally, if you read the petition, you’ll see that we’re in favour of maintaining and supporting the National Park and it’s paths. We just want Fix The Fells to take into consideration ALL trail users and repair them in a slightly more sympathetic manner.

so justin – what method do you think should be used?

what method do you think should be used?

Consultation and discussion?

Errrrrrrrrr coz amost everyone using it is walking it? Its not rocket science is it – there is a limited budget, so do the best, most economical option for the overwhelming majority of users (aka hikers).

As to why exactly? Basically, every other type of trail will erode and become a horrible sloppy rut in the ground in a year or so. This makes all the money spent on maintaining the integrity of the fell pointless.

I say this as a lake district local – MTB is a tiny fraction of users, and at the end of the day, economics win. I for one, am glad to see fix the fells getting to it!

MIke – thats what has been done and this is the best method available.  I’d like you or justin to say how it should be done instead.  You are the guys saying this is the wrong method.  So what is the right way?

@tjagain – I’m not a trail builder so I don’t know. I realise that this lets you win this internet argument, so well done you. Have 10 points on me.

@andylc – I don’t have a negative view of the people doing the work, and I don’t think the person who started the petition does either. Our collective impression, and I say this as politely as possible, is that Fix The Fells don’t fully grasp what mountain bikers like riding on. For example – at a previous dig day in the Duddon Valley, they were wanting to remove a boulder from a path because they saw it as a problem. It was only when a couple of riders rode it and showed them why we want features left in, that they understood and it was kept.

As for finding other routes, we do. But it would be nice if we didn’t have to.

Mikewsmith:

Because there are better ways to fix a bridleway

Which are? I honestly don’t know, so would like to be educated before signing the petition.

Agreed with TJ – Mike and Justin, if you could give us the best way of repairing trails that accommodate all users with the minimum economic outlay and maximum longevity I would love to hear it.

Until then, stop thinking about yourselves, and start thinking about the millions of people who visit the lake district not on a mountain bike each year…

I’d like to find them before everything gets pitched up there, seen a huge variety of track and trail construction over the years lots which is multi use and well done, from the pics and responses this seems to cause problems in winter, for bikes, for horses, for runners… Is that a good solution? The simple part is in winter pitched rock trails become an ice sheet making them unsuitable for anyone. Who decides the priorities or method of fixing?

I think the more pertinent question is .. who gives a ****! :lol:

@gingerbllr – I’m not just thinking of myself as a mountain biker. As was mentioned earlier, negative comments on the fix the fells Facebook post come from all users; walkers, fell runners and mountain bikers.

I’ve ridden horses up and down paths like that. It’s absolutely fine and far nicer to ride on than tarmac or gravel if it’s steep.

Over 20 years ago I did help with similar Lake District path repairs – I wonder how that path is now? They were big stones, not easy to move!

I don’t know the route but it sounds as though there are two pretty much adjacent routes, one a footpath and one a bridleway.  Hard to see why both need to be treated the same

If the vast majority of users are walkers then, yes, they must be catered for but you have to also assume that they are likely responsible for the majority of the damage that then led to storm erosion.  Perhaps they could be “encouraged” to stay on the resurfaced footpath and leave the bridleway alone ?