Partitioning a garage

We have an integral garage which runs the length of the hallway. It’s full of bikes and sundry other household junk.  I’m thinking that it might be possible to build a wall about 6ft or so from the end of the garage and then knock a doorway through from the rear section into the hallway.  The resulting room wouldn’t have any windows but I’m thinking we could get a daylight ceiling panel to mitigate that.  It could be a storage cupboard or it could be a study for my wife.

I’m guessing it wouldn’t need any kind of planning permission, but I’m thinking there might be issues with regulations.  If we called it a closet, it might not need windows, however if they thought we might want to use it as a ‘living space’ then it might..?

In terms of building – I’m assuming we’d just build a wall from blocks at the end of the garage, but we’d need to fit some kind of ties to the existing walls otherwise it’d just fall over.  I don’t think I’d be confident enough to knock a hole in the wall but I could maybe get a builder to do this then finish the doorway myself with architrave and all that stuff.

Anyone done anything similar?

No idea about regulations but you don’t need to mess about with blocks/bricks. A stud wall would be fine for what you need and a lot easier to do. Not 100% sure of the layout but if you’re cutting a hole for a door is not much more work to cut a hole for a window.

if you’re cutting a hole for a door is not much more work to cut a hole for a window

Either we have a window into the hallway, the garage, the kitchen or next door :)

Stud wall is a possibility yes but I’m worried about security.  Don’t want people breaking into the garage then realising they can chop their way into the house at their leisure where no-one can see.  Also I want good insulation.

I have cut a doorway thru a wall. Knocked a brick out above where I wanted the lintel,  bit of timber thru and then a scaff board  wedged under it. I knew it wasn’t supporting anything bar 3 ft of brick above it.  Carefully cut a line of bricks out and inserted a lintel –  then a FYT cuttof saw and simply cut the doorway out of the wall.  If worries about weight above then do it properly with acro props

Block work is fairly easy to do if you remember ” the amateur does it either quickly or well, only a pro can do both”  You get a metal strip that screws into the existing wall and then every course of bricks you have a horizontal piece that clips to the strip and lies between the bricks

https://www.screwfix.com/p/sabrefix-wall-starter-kit-stainless-steel/56037

https://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/using-acro-props.htm

You will need building regs and they are strict as if a future owner of the house were to decide to knock the internal partition down and park a car in the garage again there are all sorts of issues with fire and pollutants. Not impossible to do but should be done right. Fire doors, double thickness fire rated plaster board etc.

Make sure you back up the contents first.

it might not need windows,

have you tried switching them off and on again?

A quick scan of the building regulations suggests that you won’t need a window as long as the ‘utility room’ exits direct to the hall and has a ventilator with an area of 2500mm2. But, as TheDTs says above, fire spread and fuel spillage from garage to house must be addressed properly. See Approved doc B.

I’d stud wall it, easier to insulate too. Quicker and less mess. Don’t think it makes much difference security wise. No would know it’s a stud unless they started breaking through anyway.

Think you’ll need a fire wall between. We had to do it in our large garage and now will need to do it if the garage flat is to be a living area.

if a future owner of the house were to decide to knock the internal partition down and park a car in the garage again there are all sorts of issues with fire and pollutants.

Ok, but if I build a proper block wall it’s not a partition is it?  So it’s no more reversable than any other alteration…?

No would know it’s a stud unless they started breaking through anyway.

It’d be pretty obvious.  A garage that’s about 8ft shorter than it should be.

Re knocking bricks out – the downstairs wall’s not made of brick, it’s made of very soft thermalite blocks, and it’s a load bearing wall in a three storey house…  If I cause my house and next door’s to fall down I’ll be in a bit of bother; a builder will have insurance.

It’s the wall / doorway between the garage and house that is the issue not the partition.

Stud wall is a possibility yes but I’m worried about security.  Don’t want people breaking into the garage then realising they can chop their way into the house at their leisure where no-one can see.  Also I want good insulation.

Unless you live in a high crime area or war zone, you might be worrying too much.  If they are brazen enough to start ‘chopping’ through walls, it’s not much of a leap to breaking/removing a back door window?

True, but if you can gain access to the garage you can hack away inside to your heart’s content without being seen. But yes, I am probably worrying about it too much. But having been burgled, this tends to make you worry.

Any thieves are likely to stop when they get to your ‘garage full of bikes’.

Chopping through a stud wall (especially a double thickness one for fire regs) isn’t going to be particularly quick or easy, they want maximum return for minimum effort so would just break in through a window or door anyway.

Any thieves are likely to stop when they get to your ‘garage full of bikes’.

To be fair, it is the best room in the house to rob.

Its funny – there are places in the world where it is absolutely standard to have a stud wall between the house and attached garage, some with a connecting door into the bargain.  I always wondered why they don’t get broken into all the time but they don’t.  In fact I’ve never heard it hapoen.  Windows are easier and believe it or not, quieter.  I’ve seen a few houses that just got the front door kicked in.  I think quick in and out is the name if the game, even though they could spend the day in your garage and not get discovered.

The block supporting wall thing is slightly overblown.  Bricks/block/earth etc is self-supporting at a 45 degree angle, so you don’t have to hold up all the bricks above – just like arched window bricks work.

I think quick in and out is the name if the game,

The advantage is as much psychological as anything else…!

So anyway.. you’re saying that knocking a door through will be easy… ? :)

I believe the floor needs to be lifted too – not sure of the height but you can’t just cut a hole for a door, panel it off a bit and call it a room.

To be fair, it is the best room in the house to rob.

noted :-)

I’ve had this done.

diagram 4 I think for my garage

https://www.rctcbc.gov.uk/EN/Resident/PlanningandBuildingControl/BuildingControl/RelatedDocuments/Guidancenotesforgarageconversions.pdf

I lost a noticeable amount of width/height from the space due to all the celotex.

The garage is already integral to the house so has the same cavity walls as the rest of it.

The only thing that worries me there is the bit about having to have a secondary escape route in the case of a fire.  that’s not really possible unless we partition the front part of the garage.  Then the only access to the bike store would end up being through the house.

Not exactly easy but it isn’t as if you have to hold up the whole wall while you are doing it.  It is a fairly standard job.  Maybe not a DIY one though, as the potential for danger is there. Having said that, I did see a builder knock a wall down onto himself once.

Would a window of sufficient size count as an fire egress?

You could line a stud wall with wire mesh.  It could even be electrified if you are handy.  Not that I am suggesting that at all, that would be dangerous and anti social.  And a hell of a surprise for anyone who did try to bust through the wall.

The only thing that worries me there is the bit about having to have a secondary escape route in the case of a fire

You don’t need it in your case. Firstly, you’re not converting it to a “habitable room“. (Jeff’s link is for habitable rooms).  Secondly, your door won’t be into another room, it’s into the hall (see approved doc B para 2.4a, link in my previous post).

You do need fire door(s?), fire rated wall and protection against fuel spillage.

Our integral garage already had a door into the house – a hefty fire resistant one. We put a stud wall in and had the outside half of the garage for bikes, and the other half, accessible from the house, as a music room with drum kit, keyboard etc. When the kids left home I removed the stud wall, and I now have more space for bikes.

Firstly, you’re not converting it to a “habitable room“. (Jeff’s link is for habitable rooms).

I think I am though?  It’s intended to be a study.  Ok I could probably call it a closet and then move a desk in it later, but that’s cheating.  Re doors, the house is three story so already has fire resistant doors, may have something in the stud walls too not sure.

Wire mesh or similar in the stud walls might make me feel better.

As for protection against fuel spillage – presumably this means some kind of membrane to stop any fuel spilled entering the new room?  Not too difficult to deal with I’m guessing?

the building regs thing when you come to well, is that really a big deal?  we bought a probate so it came with no paperwork despite various modifications including some in the last 4 years.  pretty certain we just took out an indemnity.

and isn’t there some sort of rule about if it’s been like that for 10 years it’s assumed ok?

our place has a double garage which has been half converted to an annex and must have been like this for some time.  found planning for the garage in the 50s but nothing since.  from the wiring I reckon it was probably built as an annex in the first place or converted very soon after.

reason I’m interested in regs  is I want to raise the floor level up to the same as the room next door (which is still a step down from rest of house)

DT, if the garage is lower than the room next door (which I believe it should be for regs) and you convert it to a ‘normal’ room you can just add a suspended floor (or whatever) to bring it up to the same level because it’s no longer a garage.

I think I am though? It’s intended to be a study

Apologies, I’d read “It could be a storage cupboard ” and missed the next bit. Making it habitable also changes the ventilation requirements (Approved doc F) so check that.

Fuel spillage is about floor levels, making the habitable higher than the garage. I’m guessing a suspended floor won’t be acceptable as the fuel would run under it.

The garage will still be a garage for regulations purposes, even if it’s too small for most cars.

That’s fair enough.  I’d imagine raising the floor with poured concrete would not be easy to remove should the decision need reversing :)  So perhaps 20-30cm of blockwork as required to the new floor then stud above that.

Fuel spillage is about floor levels, making the habitable higher than the garage. I’m guessing a suspended floor won’t be acceptable as the fuel would run under it.

The garage will still be a garage for regulations purposes, even if it’s too small for most cars.

You may be right. My dad converted the garage at our other house into 2/3 bedroom and 1/3 store room with just an insulated stud partition that sat on a couple of rows of block and then lifted the floor in the bedroom part with a suspended floor.

He was an architect and stuck to the regs!

True, but if you can gain access to the garage you can hack away inside to your heart’s content without being seen. But yes, I am probably worrying about it too much. But having been burgled, this tends to make you worry.

Just put steel mesh behind the plaster board, see other thread on partitioning garages… https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/operation-fortress/

we have used concrete reinforcement mesh which is available in up to 10mm thick bars to sandwich inside stud walls and ceiling in a WC with outside access but within electrical wholesalers whouse,, speccd by their insurers I think. Its hard to cut even with Cut off saw/grinder.It will slow the scrotes down and as above it is conductive!! so could accidentally become quite lively if attacked . Possibly we are all overthinking this one. Make it meet bldg regs  get some proper help with structural openings job done .

Sounds like this could be the easiest and cheapest way to free up a bedroom for my eldest daughter.

I don’t know about the specific regs where you are but often a curb is all that is required for spill containment.  A concrete curb poured into smooth concrete will be fairly easily reversible as the join won’t be very strong, a chisel and a bit of grinding will eliminate all evidence in short order, unless you use epoxy between the two.  Equally blocks set in a mortar bed.  I wouldn’t be confident that a mortar bed would pass the requirement for fluid containment.  Possible a sealant would be required. As others have said, check your regs.

Rebar (the 10mm metal rods referred to above) would need a saw to cut, although tend to come in shortish lengths so you’d have to find a way to make a length for the wall that can’t be pulled out – they are just overlapped and wrapped with wire when used in concrete.  There is also 4′ x 8′ sheets of concrete reinforcing mesh which is approx 12 gauge wire.  Cuttable but you’d be there a while.

so going from closet to study to bedroom? that will change things a bit from regs pov? and will she be able to defend bikes and herself if scrotes turn up?

No, it’s not going to be a bedroom.  It’s going to be a study which will liberate the bedroom currently used as a study.

and will she be able to defend bikes and herself if scrotes turn up?

She’ll have a glock under her pillow don’t worry.  The window of the current study overlooks the driveway and exit route so she’ll have a great shot.