New Hardtail

Hi guys,

I am new on here. From Ireland, spirited XC/ trail rider.
I have generally riden 100 mm XC style hardtails in the past. But am now looking to advance to a slightly longer stroke and a slacker headset angle.
I wonder can you guys recommend some steeds.

The things I would like are:
Price: 1100-1600 euro
Front fork travel: 100 -130 mm
Tubeless ready rims
Dropper post would be nice be not necessary
Obviously the best bang for buck with gearests, brakes, forks etc etc..

Some of the bikes I was considering are:
Kona Honza
Vitus Sentier VRS
Cube Reaction TM
GT Zaskar LT Expert
Nukeproof Scout 290 Race

Do you have experience with the above? Have you any other recommendations?
Maybe this thread has been covered before. If so, can I be directed towards it.
Thanks in advance

I bought a Nukeproof Scout 290 race a month or so back.
I think it’s a brilliant bike, done a lot of shorter 15-20 mile rides mainly riding short steepish singletrack trails that we have round here and it has been such a great laugh. I did a 45 mile ride on it Monday (my longest ride on it) along the SDW and it was surprisingly comfortable. Overall I am extremely happy with it.

On-One Big Dog or Hello Dave steel hardtails.

I have the Big Dog and it’s ace – great climber and an absolute riot on the descents. Apparently the Hello Dave is even crazier going down :)

Scandal hard to beat

Out of your list I’d take the Sentier or the Nukeproof. Doubt you’ll get the Sentier in stock unless they actually have any in store in Ireland. The Sentier is squarely in the middle of ‘trail’ – the Nukeproof is probably a tiny bit burlier but still a good trail bike.

The On-One Big Dog is probably worth a look, along with the On-One Scandal. I’d skip the Hello Dave – that’s ludicrously long and slack. Unless you’re regularly chucking yourself down very steep tech and / or rough high speed rock gardens it’s probably too much long and slack.

A Bird Zero AM with the base Shimano spec might just squeak into your budget too. Probably closer to the Nukeproof then the Sentier but also a decent trail hardtail.

https://www.bird.bike/product/zero-am-27-5-shimano-12-speed-slx-xt-xtr/#select-your-frame-size-and-colour

On-One Scandal should cover your requirements, you’d need to add a dropper but when they have a sale on you can get very good spec for the price.

Commence meta am ht for my money, looks to be great value for a modern trail bike.

Like you I have spent years riding xc 100mm bikes (or shorter travel) this year I got a Kona Honzo Cr (which I appreciate is not the model your refering too, but pretty much the same as the alloy ones). It’s amazing, I would describe it as the prefect bike for riders who still want a hardtail with some xc like traits but with a trail twist. Been ridden on everything from Tweed valley Enduro trails to road and fire road miles and miles rides. So much fun and speed, but still being good for long xc rides.

Whyte 901? Hefty with the plus tyres and SX groupset, but mine’s been great. Probably not ideal for longer XC stuff mind you, more “winch & plummet” style.
Sonder Transmitter or Signal might be worth a look too.

Im on an on one hello Dave.

It’s the original sick version.

It great up and down hill for me. I’ve got more KOM’s on that than my full suss. Aka, I have 1 Kom, and it was on this bike 🙂

I have a Scandal which I love but part of the fun for me was building it up during Lockdown, hard to look past the Sentier if you are looking for off the shelf.

I’ve seen an Orbea Laufey in a shop in Clonmel and I was pretty impressed, looks like it would also fit the bill

Your biggest problem will actually be able to get hold of most of those bikes. Most seem to be out of stock already.

Wow thanks for the replies and feedback. I honestly didnt think so many would reply.

The On-one bikes look really good, especially the Scandal. The Hello dave is very similar just steel frame and more external cables right?

The Commencal looks pretty sweet but with 160 mm travel is probably bit more than I really need.
The Orbea looks like a nice bike also, another one for the list.

Agreed the biggest problem might be getting most of the bikes on the list.
However, the On-on bikes seem pretty avaialble though right?

Wow thanks for the replies and feedback. I honestly didnt think so many would reply.

Loads and loads of options … it’s a case really of deciding what you want.
I wanted an aggressive HT and DMR were (still are) having a sale on frames and I’m super happy but I’d probably have also been super happy with the Hello Dave …. I’m totally sold on steel for HT’s…. coming from a FS on one side and 100mm XC HT on the other…

That said if I’d had the money I’d have gone for the Bird Zero in SLX spec but I had forks and wheels etc. and £285 was a bargain for the DMR (£320 on their website now). Both are as far as I know in stock and shipping!

Steel vs aluminum frames? What are your opinions??

Steel should have a little more flex but a little more weight. Probably not a huge amount in it. Big tyres probably make more of a difference.

I’d take the On One Big Dog over the Hello Dave. The latter has a 62 degree headangle I think, plus huge reach and steep seat angle. That would be a big shock after what you’ve been riding. The Big Dog I think is the steel equivalent to the alloy Scandel.

Look at the new marins

63deg hardtails lovely looking bikes

I’ve just taken delivery of the new stif squatch. took it for a blast on sunday for hours, could of stayed out all day. it’s epic. may be a bit out of your price range but what a beast.
Was worried about the clearance due to the low BB and admittedly did strike a couple of times but nothing major but what a flier

Big Dog and Scandal are steel/aluminium equivalents, Hello Dave is a lot more extreme and would likely be way too much for you (I own a hardtail with a 64° head angle and it’s slack enough for pretty hardcore riding, I can’t imagine 62° would make for a good all rounder).

Big Dog and Scandal are steel/aluminium equivalents, Hello Dave is a lot more extreme and would likely be way too much for you (I own a hardtail with a 64° head angle and it’s slack enough for pretty hardcore riding, I can’t imagine 62° would make for a good all rounder).

It’s not just head angle that you need to think about, chainstay length is important to handling the Hello Dave has long chainstays at 458mm. My Doctahawk has shorter chainstays (435mm) and is slightly longer in reach but is fine as an all rounder even though it is designed around a 180mm travel fork.

It’s not just head angle that you need to think about, chainstay length is important to handling the Hello Dave has long chainstays at 458mm. My Doctahawk has shorter chainstays (435mm) and is slightly longer in reach but is fine as an all rounder even though it is designed around a 180mm travel fork.

Seriously?

The op is coming from a 100mm travel xc hardtail and is looking for something a bit slacker and with up to a 130mm travel fork. Posted generally middle of the road trail bikes with a slight leaning towards hardcore ish with the Nukeproof.

And people are suggesting a Hello Dave (which let’s not forget started life as an extreme angled / extremely long Sick bicycles project) and then a hardtail designed around a 180mm (!) fork which is also designed for very steep tech.

Neither of which many people would think of as an all rounder. The head angle change on a hardtail with a 180mm or even 160mm travel fork is pretty extreme and you need to be ready for that and be happy to live with that compromise.

My reading of the op’s requirements is he’ll want to keep quite a lively / whippy feel, but with something that’s a bit more stable and capable for trail riding.

Steel vs aluminum frames? What are your opinions??

Totally depends on the quality of the steel frame.
I had (have) an old NS core frame and a alloy DJ/4X … the DMR frame feels much more supple in a night and day way. The old NS isn’t so harsh as the alloy DJ (though it’s got more front travel) but a world away from the DMR.

The op is coming from a 100mm travel xc hardtail and is looking for something a bit slacker and with up to a 130mm travel fork.

I’ve not bothered measuring but I bought the DMR with the expectation of dropping it to 150 or 140. (I just had the forks set up at 160)

I haven’t actually ridden my 100mm XC HT since getting it.
It’s been to everything from bike parks to boring gravel/CX rides at Swinley to dirt jumps to 70km loops taking in 15-20km of Surrey Hills.

@stevextc- you may have a long fork – but if it’s a trailstar frame you have short chainstays, 66 degree headangle, 72 seat angle and fairly short reach for any given size. That’s a world away from a Hello Dave or Doctahawk.

I picked up an orange P7 back in September and I’m loving it so far, for most of my riding it’s ideal (besides the odd bikepark day). It’s got a 150mm fork and I really enjoy the ride and aesthetics of the steel frame compared to aluminium, however I personally don’t think it’s as night and day as some people claim.

It’s more of a heavy duty bike though, so I’d recommend a 2nd hand orange clockwork as it looks like it would fit the bill for you at around the right price. 130mm fork, trail oriented.

I can’t imagine 62° would make for a good all rounder).

And people are suggesting a Hello Dave (which let’s not forget started life as an extreme angled / extremely long Sick bicycles project) and then a hardtail designed around a 180mm (!) fork which is also designed for very steep tech.

I find it fine for me. That’s compared to:

Cove stiffee from 2000 with a 70 head angle which was super slack at the time. 130mm to 100mm forks. I raced xc (unsuccessfully), took it down the fort bill world cup track, rode 1000 miles in 2 weeks touring round Sweden, rode trail centers, the lakes and the peaks.

Orange clockwork in alloy. That went up Snowdon, round the peaks, local flat night rides, and a couple of weekends bike packing.

The hello Dave has replaced the clockwork. I’d do all of the above on it. Not sure if it will take a rack. I’ve got a one year old now and he means trips to Scotland, long touring rides and the like are significantly less likely for a while.

I was a bit worried it would be horrible round somewhere flat like Sherwood pines, but it’s actually fine. I have hunt xc wide wheels which are fairly light and 2.3 tyres.

I run a 160mm fork on the hello Dave. It was supposed to have 150mm I thought. I was going to reduce the travel, but it’s fine.

Everyone has a different idea about normal/ fine. I could do all of the above on almost any hardtail, Fort William was terrifying mind!

So op, get a bike you like the look of and ride it anywhere : )

I’m not saying a Hello Dave couldn’t ride round xc / trail centres etc – I’m saying there are better / more fun tools for that job. You only need to look at the picture above and see how long the front Centre is and the angle of the fork to tell that’s not going to be a hugely fun ride on tame trails. That’s made for steep / fast gnar.

I’m sure that a Hello Dave could do the job but when the OP says they ride spirited xc/trail I couldn’t honestly say it’s the best tool for the job.

And people are suggesting a Hello Dave (which let’s not forget started life as an extreme angled / extremely long Sick bicycles project) and then a hardtail designed around a 180mm (!) fork which is also designed for very steep tech.

At what point did I recommend my hardtail as a suitable bike for the OP’s needs, I was suggesting that the head tube angle is not the only guide to how maneuverable a bike is. By the way my Doctahawk is hilarious to ride and great fun, even on a tame bimble round the woods.

So op, get a bike you like the look of and ride it anywhere : )

That’s always my approach. I actually like the look of the Ribble (yes, I know) 725 HT but that has 27.5 wheels so guessing OP is after 29?

Now that Ribble is a bike I really like the look of. It would be between that and a Stanton Switchback that would be my backup if the Marino I’ve ordered doesn’t actually ever turn up. I

I just built up a Banshee Paradox v3 and it’s great. Not sure it’s in the price range but then a frame and second hand bits can lower the price enormously.

I’ve just bought a GT Zaskar LT which arrives on the 8th. Always been a GT fanboy and now with the new geometry I thought I’d give one a go again.

Agreed I think the Hello Dave is alot more aggresive than I am looking for. Too slack, travel is quite long also. Still looks like a great bike.

I see the Scandal is on offer and have made my mind up on it I think.
I am 6ft 1(185cm) & 90 kg. Would the large but a good fit for me?

For anyone that is looking for one, just seen that CRC have some Scout 275 frames in stock this morning.

I bought the On-One Scandal last night. Early Christmas present to myself!!! Looks like a pretty sweet whip plus was on sale so hopefully it will arrive asap.
Thanks for the heads up guys, I would have never come across it otherwise

Bird Zero should be worth a look, just over budget but good spec for the money

Good luck with the scandal 🙂

There’s a long running thread about them on here. Most people seem pretty happy with them.

Nordest Bardino 2 frames are in stock/not long delivery times

https://nordestcycles.com/en/product/bardino-2-frame

Those nordests look like they have come out of the same factory as the hello Dave.

Same dropouts
Similar head tube guset
Similar seat tube reinforcement.

I wonder how many factories in the far East actually make steel hardtails…

It works like trainers. Nike work up a design and then go to a factory to have them make it. Nike doesn’t make stuff.
If you look at Ribble and On One and Ritchey, they’ve all plumped for the same basic seatstay design, so they all came out of the same factory: as may have Cotic and Stanton and Pipedream, dependant on what that factory could turn it’s hand to. In the past it looked like Niner and Inbreds were made at the same place.
These guys are experts so the build quality is not in doubt. Comes down to the design and tube quality/profiles they are working with. I have a feeling that the On One factory also make their own 4130 tubing.