Manualling vs Riding & Stem length vs Bar Rise,

Decided to take bike into work few days a week now so I can sneak in a few manualling/bunnyhopping etc learning sessions throughout the nights during the quieter periods.

(As a 43 year old I feel ridiculous failing at manuals and wheelies in front of the neighbours, lets not even get started about how non-existent and honking looking my bunnyhop attempts are)

Bike is Medium Canyon Spectral 2016 (430mm Reach & Chainstay. The stem is 60mm. Bar rise is 20mm.)

I’m 5ft 7 height, 28inch short inside leg, so getting my A7se out behind rear axle over that 440mm seat tube feels quite awkward at best of times

Im thinking it was easier to get the front end up (ie easier to initiate loop out) when the stem was a little shorter (40mm)

My reasoning for longer stem was that it keeps more weight forward so I weight my front wheel more for cornering whilst focussing on trying to increase speed I carry through corners

Now that I’m more comfortable with going into corners with more speed, being more conscious of weighting front wheel…

Would going back to 40mm stem to help with learning to manual have any major downsides with my general riding. Or would I be better off keeping the 60mm stem and having more rise in the bar?

I put up with up to enjoy down!

Or does 20mm here and there really not make as much difference as I’m imagining and once I’ve committed enough time to learning the skills its all the same?

Just practice the basics, set up doesn’t matter too much bar having a dropped to get the saddle out the way, it’s getting that down and back motion that counts, could even practice just doing the jumping off the back feel from static or really slow speeds to keep it safe, to be fair i need to get back to practicing higher manuals, got scared off a couple of months back after two really sore arse destroying over manuals, i’d personally vouch on avoiding doing anything too speedy first!

You need to spend more time practising.

I’m bad at it too but the only thing that makes a real difference is dedicated practice. Trying over and over until you feel it click and doing it again the next day. Some bikes are easier to lift than others (I’ve been practising on a long 29er and a 24″ DJ bike) but changing your bike setup doesn’t teach you the technique.

Fair enough, just need to keep practising away, I’ve set myself a target of till end of this lockdown to get some sort of manual nailed.

So noone thinks that 60mm stem is a bit too long on a medium bike for short old me for general riding around?

You’ve got a short reach frame, so maybe the 60mm stem feels ok. My last hardtail was 432 reach and I ran that with a 60mm stem – and a hardtail reach gets longer under sag whereas a full suss doesn’t really. I’m 5’9 but with short torso and arms.

I think the key is not to rely on pumping your forks for the bounce up as that makes it harder to predict the pace of the rebound.

When I had some coaching it was a quick forward crouch then push your weight back using your feet (so driving the pedals forward) and keep your arms straight. Not a huge pull-up on the bars – most of the motion is through weight going back and pushing forward with your feet.

I had a 481mm reach fs with 430 or 435 chainstays (I forget which) and I went from really struggling to lift the front to at least being able to pull a short manual. I’d have thought your bike would be quite a lot easier to manual than that.

New fs is 457mm reach / 50mm stem / 425mm chainstays and it’s really quite easy to lift the front now I’ve got better technique and a shorter bike. I’m not great at getting to the balance point and holding it though – tend to panic brake and being the front back down. Needs more time practising which I haven’t got.

Depends what you’re after, not a fan of having over 50mm to be fair, 35mm is my go to, but that’s more about having the bike under a little more control for enduro stuff, for things like manuals and wheelies, you’re not really looking for any of that, wheelies you’re keeping the arms straight and on the back wheel and finding the balance point, so stem won’t do anything for that, manuals you’re more pushing away than pulling up, so again stem length means not a lot.

It’s something i’m going to be practicing again, lost the confidence to do the manual for any real distance, i kind of backed up to just doing it for what i need, so a couple of metres with the wheel a foot or so off the ground, it’s why i would always advise before getting into serious practice on doing them, learn how to jump off the bike first, hence the static manual one, and when practicing wheelies, just do a couple of over-wheelies, jump off safe and you get the feel that you can then practice a little safer without the worry of ‘what if the front lifts too fast’, covering the brake is good, but it only takes a fraction of a second to go past that point of no return!

As you guys were saying earlier. I’ve accepted that no point faffing with bike set up for sake of manuals. The most important thing is to focus on learning the technique with however the bike is set up. Today I seem to have made some progress mental progress by being reminded of the down and back again. By isolating the down bit for a while as per the gmbn video I think it’s helped somewhat. So just got to keep plugging away.

The stem issue is more to do with riding. I got taken to Haldon forest cafe side for the first time on Wednesday and I loved it. That’s the kind of riding I want to get better at. There’s a few jumps and drops I’ve hit up there but really I’m just winging it with no real technique. Which means the bigger stuff is a no go for me cos I know I will end up in a world of trouble.

The frame reach is 430 on my spectral, with the downward pointing rooty jumbly type of riding that way would I be better served with the longer or shorter stem.

The frame reach is 430 on my spectral, with the downward pointing rooty jumbly type of riding that way would I be better served with the longer or shorter stem.

It’s whatever you’re comfortable with really. For technical riding it’s mostly about how the bike feels when you’re stood up. With the 40mm stem did the bike feel too short? You want to be as central in the bike as you can for steeper stuff – longer reach bikes help with this.

On really short bikes with steep head angles and your saddle up (back in the day) the technique was to get behind the saddle / off the back. With droppers and a slacker head angle you can get low on the bike without going off the back – you keep more weight on the front wheel you get front wheel grip and you don’t feel like you’re going over the bars.

You broadly never want to feel like you have your arms straight / fully extended (except manualling) – you should always have a bit of a bend which allows for your wheel to drop into bumps without pulling your whole weight forward.

It’s actually well worth getting some
Mtb coaching if you have the time / money. I’d got to a certain pace on a modern bike but had found my limits and had started crashing a bit. Got some coaching a couple of years ago and that corrected a few basic errors in my position and I kicked on a bit. Got another session in a few weeks time to try and kick on a bit more on jumps / steep technical & rooty trails.

It took me several years to learn to manual, I intially thought it would just take a few months. I would keep your bike setup with what your comfortable with for allround riding.

It took me several years to learn to manual, I intially thought it would just take a few months. I would keep your bike setup with what your comfortable with for allround riding.

Very much this. Manualling is hard but useful on occasion*. It’s a part of proper bunnyhops too. Just practice/learn/get comfy on the thing you ride the most and it’ll come together. The thing is is that if you’re booling down a trail or whatever the different ‘skills’ all blend into one so you’ll probably never have to manual for more than a few metres anyway**.

* over roots and rocks and stuff, not outside the chippy 😆

** chippy nothwithstanding.

When you’ve got the right feel for the balance point/sweet spot, the bike makes almost no difference.

Practice the ‘loop out, jump off the back’ routine until you can stop the bike upright before it loops out, front wheel in the air, balanced.

Then, wheelies and manuals come quite easily.

Thanks for all the helpful and encouraging advice guys.

You’ve definitely helped me come to grips with the notion that bike setup isn’t going to stop me from learning the skills,

For a moment I was worried that my being on the shorter side of 5’7 with short legs was going to be a mechanical hindrance on a medium frame, I can always loop out if I focus and really go for it so I guess that’s my answer there

So apparently the only thing to overcome is my inherent sh17ne55!! Lol