Is ebiking “giving in/up”?

Lifting an e-bike above your head is hardly like pressing a 20 or even 30Kg barbell.

Some very odd and frankly stupid reasoning in this thread.

Ultimately, irrespective of views (mine included), if you ride a bike then all is good.

What does it matter what sort of bike it is, or how fit the rider is.

Getting out, having fun and doing something shouldn’t be labelled anything, other than good :)

I even struggle carrying normal bikes over rocky terrain for any kind of distance.

All my bikes are kept up 104 stairs. The ebike is a lot harder to do.  There is no doubt they are much heavier and harder to lift.  One of their big drawbacks along with the noise and limited range

I’m well aware what lifting a bike entails. I’ve lifted quite a few. I just find it amusing how lifting an eBike is somehow seen as massively different despite being a little bit heavier than some steel bikes. This whole thread is just amusing

Imy ebike is 14kg more than my steel mtb or over twice the weight

What does it matter what sort of bike it is

Well, the elephant in the room is the ethical concerns and environmental damage caused by the mining and production of the lithium for the batteries (and the near slave labour in some places) for what is, effectively, a rich (white?) man’s toy. Exploding batteries have also caused some deaths and burnt down quite a few houses (so much so that certain cities are considering banning ebikes).

Obviously, the more expensive, ethically sourced lithium that reputable bike brands use are exempt from these concerns….

Some of you may not be concerned about such issues, others maybe are.

Merry Christmas 😉

Stupid question, caveat with being a non ebiker or even haven ridden one.

Once the battery packs in can you just pedal it like a non electrically assisted bike?

I assume the drag from the motor or weight of the bike makes this unrealistic?

Once the battery packs in can you just pedal it like a non electrically assisted bike?

I assume the drag from the motor or weight of the bike makes this unrealistic?

Yes

Nope, rides like a heavy bike, not noticed drag when I’ve tried

“ Once the battery packs in can you just pedal it like a non electrically assisted bike?

I assume the drag from the motor or weight of the bike makes this unrealistic?”

I’ve done this a lot because on quite a lot of my group rides I’m more towards the faster end of the group when we’re all on normal bikes – so if I turn up on my ebike I turn the power off with the group and just use it for the solo bits before and after the group ride (because I cycle to/from the start from home rather than driving).

So on a normal bike with a middling speed group I’m at the front uphill and stopping and waiting fairly often. On my turned off ebike I’m nearer the back of the group but not holding anyone up.

The extra drag is tiny on my Levo – much less than the extra drag from running dual ply downhill vs trail tyres. The extra weight is annoying from a standstill and you use lower gears and/or stand up more but it’s not that bad – I’m sure most of you have ridden with mates who are 1.5 stone heavier than you and they’ve survived!

This is also why I don’t think “range anxiety” should really be a thing – if you run out of power you just have to pedal harder, it’s not like you get stranded at the side of the road.

And it’s much less bad than trying to ride home on a flat tyre, without or even with inserts!

my ebike is 14kg more than my steel mtb or over twice the weight

not must use without knowing actual weight of either one. Less than 30kg and it’s not really much of an issue. Could go around all evening in circles here. Not productive but could be mildly amusing I guess

Cheers all, I thought that might the case but wasn’t 100% sure. 

unwilling to even consider you might be wrong

My irony meter just exploded.

TJ – Dogbone.  Do you drive to ride?  I don’t .  Driving to ride is the real planet killer

I drive to less than 5% of my rides. Does that count as don’t? (I could lie for internet points). But go to any trail center and the e-bikes have driven there as well.

My sister in law’s ebike is only about 1.5kg heavier than my non-e Nukeproof Reactor!

Just for the record, lifting a big unweildy lump of a 25kg ebike onto your shoulder and climbing over a stile is absolutely nothing like lifting a small 25kg weight over your head in a static environment. Nothing at all. It’s doable, but not bloody easy

Dogbone ” let he who is without sin cast the first stone” 

Yep, I am very glad my bike weighs 5.8kg when it comes to stiles. I have 3 to go over on one of my routes and wet slippery wood and a heavy bike getting over some awkward stiles is not a great combination I imagine.

Because they’re trying to stay fit (and reduce their impact on ‘our’ NHS), something that e-bikers pretty much by definition have indeed given up on.

You’re letting your emotions and that huge chip on your shoulder get the better of you.

By definition, loads of ebikers have done quite the opposite to what you say they’re doing. They’re cycling now, which they often wouldn’t have done otherwise.

Cyclists are not a monolith. Making simplistic and sweeping statements is puerile, at best. Trying a bit of nuance and tolerance instead.

Making binary, divisive and narrow minded statements like yours is absurd too. It’s entirely possible to enjoy both ebikes and conventional bikes equally, on different days. The rider remains the same person.

I think twonks hit the nail on the head at the top of this page…

Some very odd and frankly stupid reasoning in this thread.

Ultimately, irrespective of views (mine included), if you ride a bike then all is good.

What does it matter what sort of bike it is, or how fit the rider is.

Getting out, having fun and doing something shouldn’t be labelled anything, other than good 🙂

If you want to ride an e-bike then ride an e-bike, if you want to ride a non e-bike then ride a non e-bike, it really doesn’t matter, just ride what you can or what you have if it makes you happy.

“Well, the elephant in the room is the ethical concerns and environmental damage caused by the mining and production of the lithium for the batteries (and the near slave labour in some places) for what is, effectively, a rich (white?) man’s toy. Exploding batteries have also caused some deaths and burnt down quite a few houses (so much so that certain cities are considering banning ebikes).”

The ethical issues of ebiking are interesting you can point the finger but you also have lithium batteries in cars, phones, computers and any number of common items so why single out ebikes for comment.

The main hope for ebikes is that they will be used by people to reduce the number of car journeys the do. EVs won’t save the planet on their own cycling if it’s on bikes or ebikes might make a difference.

Mountain biking where you drive somewhere to ride or fly somewhere to ride is not very helpful.

I still use a car to drive somewhere to cycle or sea kayak but my car use is a lot less than it used to be.

We chose to live in an urban area so we could have a short commute by bicycle and sometimes go somewhere nicer to do visit the outdoors. Most of my cycling is now from my doorstep unless we go on holiday.

Lifting an e-bike above your head is hardly like pressing a 20 or even 30Kg barbell.

Thanks for that, as you say some stupid reasoning on here – I am unfortunately in a place/age where lifting a normal bike over my head is awkward, so along with the price this has put me off getting a motor.  Now with these threads there is often a misunderstanding that just because one person has good reasons not to make a purchase, it is taken as a blanket condemnation of everybody who has made that choice.  As so often it is the relationship between objects that is important and I dont think a motorised bike is a good fit for me.  Of course it will be a good fit for many others and that’s fine.  If my thing was downhills, my priorities would be different and I may raid the emaciated piggy bank.  I cannot begin to think of how they must have changed cycling for those living somewhere like most of Southern France.

I cannot begin to say how much I hate locked gates.

Exploding batteries have also caused some deaths and burnt down quite a few houses (so much so that certain cities are considering banning ebikes)

I’ve read the news stories about the fires caused by e-bikes causing deaths but I’ve never seen a thing suggesting any cities considering banning e-bikes, which cities are they?

By definition, loads of ebikers have done quite the opposite to what you say they’re doing. They’re cycling now, which they often wouldn’t have done otherwise.

How many, what %? Many people riding eBikes were previously riding bikes were they not? How many, god knows.

“I am unfortunately in a place/age where lifting a normal bike over my head is awkward”

Obviously I don’t know your personal situation but if it’s possible for you to get better at lifting a normal bike over your head, then it’s a very good thing for overall health. Lifting and carrying moderately heavy awkward loads helps reduce the chance of injuries that plague older people, which happen more to people with less good balance, core strength, overall strength, mobility, etc.

Lifting and carrying moderately heavy awkward loads helps reduce the chance of injuries that plague older people

Really not so.  lifting awkward shaped stuff is high risk of injury at all ages.  25kg above shoulder height is a high risk activity

“Really not so. lifting awkward shaped stuff is high risk of injury at all ages. 25kg above shoulder height is a high risk activity”

Please read properly. I didn’t say e-bikes, I said normal bikes!

Lifting and carrying heavy e-bikes is not easy for unfit people but if you consider MTBing an athletic pursuit (which is the main argument of many against e-bikes – that they reduce your fitness) you should be able to lift and carry an ebike.

And if you ride normal MTBs for fitness then you should aim to be able to lift and carry a normal bike. If you can’t then unless you have serious dysfunction it’s a good fitness goal.

I agree that lifting and carrying an ebike is a LOT harder than carrying a normal bike – but you can’t argue against ebikes due to them causing MTBers to become lazy and unfit but also claim they’re too heavy to lift over gates.

The main hope for ebikes is that they will be used by people to reduce the number of car journeys the do. EVs won’t save the planet on their own cycling if it’s on bikes or ebikes might make a difference.

I don’t know anyone who’s actually “replaced” their car with an e-Bike, I know people who have used them for a couple of regular local journeys (escorting kids to school, run to the shop, etc) which they could easily have done previously on a non-assisted bike (sort of making them the less environmentally friendly option?).

While I’m sure people exist who’ve gone all in on living the life and fully ditched the car for an E-cargo bike, such people/families are the exception not the rule still and (I assume) have lifestyles and finances that accommodate the choice.

I just don’t buy the ‘car replacement’ theory for eebs, it’s mostly bollocks, people generally buy them in addition to a car not instead of one. Car journey replacement? Maybe, but again weather and circumstances probably conspire to make it the less preferable option half the time…

E-Bikes are mostly toys, which is fine, but let’s not pretend they’re going to save the planet, they really won’t.

cheif – I used to train people in safe moving and handling of loads- even 12 kg above your head is high risk activity.  Add in an awkward shape and its even higher – and this is nothing to do with fitness – its about the limitations of your muscular skeletal system.

Okish if you lift weights and have built up your body to do so.  Fitness does not equal increased ligament and tendon strength

These are the safe limits for loads:

https://www.architectureanddesign.com.au/getmedia/00e585f9-4a54-47ed-801a-73bb012bc525/Image1_10.aspx

“ These are the safe limits for loads:”

These are completely ridiculous. If you can’t handle more load than that, how are you going to be able to catch yourself if you trip, how are you going to be able to get out of a chair or bed when you’re 80+, how safe are you going to be if you have a bike crash?!

I have three different awkward loads I regularly lift and/or carry in the shape of 4, 8 and 10 year children. Even the small 4 year old girl can lift 10kg off the floor which is more than half her body weight.

How many, what %? Many people riding eBikes were previously riding bikes were they not? How many, god knows.

Sure, some of them were. Not sure you realise that I was replying to the suggestion that ebiker have given up and are costing the NHS as “they hace given up on staying fit” which is a ridiculous statement. Even cyclists moving to ebikes don’t necessarily stroll exercising. In fact some of them may have stopped cycling all together.

how are you going to be able to catch yourself if you trip, how are you going to be able to get out of a chair or bed when you’re 80+, how safe are you going to be if you have a bike crash?!

All totally different scenarios.  I suggest you take your expertise to the HSE and inform them that they are wrong.  I CAN lift 50 kgs.  Its not SAFE for me to do so

“ I suggest you take your expertise to the HSE and inform them that they are wrong.”

I know they’re wrong, as does anyone with a reasonable amount of knowledge of how the human body responds to loads over time. If they were right, and if the NHS’s approach to back pain was right, then we wouldn’t have ever-increasing problems such as bad backs.

Avoiding load is not the answer. Building in life habits that increase mobility and strength is, and if you ride MTBs then an easy challenge is to get comfortable with lifting and carrying your own bike.

So what is your expertise that you can say that these limits created by experts in the field are wrong?

 Lifting and carrying moderately heavy awkward loads helps reduce the chance of injuries that plague older people

The problem is the “injuries that plague older people”.  They have arrived. 

Summing up where this thread is going

Not sure why they’ve even bothered to differentiate between the sexes in those charts when they’ve utterly failed to differentiate between fitness disability strength and illness levels, what utterly useless charts.

I do love an armchair expert.  “anyone with a reasonable amount of knowledge of how the human body responds to loads over time.”  You mean the very people who created this safe load guidance?  Its clear you have no actual knowledge of the physiology or anatomy.  Fitness does not increase the strength of your connective tissue.  ~Strength training does a little but not much.

So you think you know better than people who study this stuff for year and are experts in the field.  Very good.

Was amusing up at Afan today, I was on the MTB and the lad was on the ebike. Well, sort of, he had it switched off on most of the climbs and trails and got back having 5/5 bars left lol. Nutter. But it does show for the earlier question posted, you can ride it fine without power, it won’t shock anyone to know, he was quicker uphill with power off than I was on the Fuel ex

We saw and chatted to 7 blokes in total, all middle aged/50s, all we’re on ebikes. We only saw 1 person on a MTB which was a youngster who’d got it for Xmas present.

“ Fitness does not increase the strength of your connective tissue. ~Strength training does a little but not much.”

You can’t say “fitness” and not include strength training.

There’s a total lack of joined up thinking in modern medicine regarding biomechanics but that’s a problem that affects almost everything in the modern world. Lots of experts doing very specific analysis but rarely going enough steps along the path to create a real solution. Anything hurts, stop doing anything. Children getting killed by cars, keep the children inside. Cyclists dying on the road, make them wear helmets. Crime increasing, put more people in prison.

However I’ve been here long enough to know that you are a man of very fixed opinion, so I’ll stop there.

safe load = 25 * 1 / age

ON this one I actually have fairly high level expertise – I used to train folk who trained folk in safe movement of loads.  I also understand the A&P involved and how these safe limits were reached

Fitness and strength are not the same thing at all.  Thats very basic physiology.

So what is your expertise that means you can say that this well researched and valid limits are wrong?