Is ebiking “giving in/up”?

Aren’t all rides 50% up and down unless you’re finishing in a different place to where you start?

“The option of upping the assistence level is too easy to succumb to.”

But is it though? I’ve seen people killing themselves on rowing machines that don’t even go anywhere! And plenty of people I know do Zwift races on static bikes – why don’t they just sit on the sofa instead?

No when I used to lead group rides all rides were mostly uphill inspite of ending up back where we started!

Bike riding must involve some physics I don’t know about.

What Is the range of an eBike using sensible amount of power? ie not turbo every where and not eco mode.

What Is the range of an eBike using sensible amount of power? ie not turbo every where and not eco mode.

Mines got a big battery – 50 ish miles if doing a fair amount of climbing or less if loads of climbing – its the climbing that eats battery range – just riding along you soon go over 15.5mph  ie not enough for long rides or overnighters

@singlespeedstu

That Loic bloke is obviously a shit rider as he hasn’t earned his descents.

What Is the range of an eBike using sensible amount of power? ie not turbo every where and not eco mode.

This Orbea was in Boost all day mostly and did 2 bars out of 5 in 17 miles, plenty of climbing at FoD too. So I’m estimating 40+ even in boost. I’ll find out more in coming months. I think its 540w

What Is the range of an eBike using sensible amount of power? ie not turbo every where and not eco mode.

Thats a bit of a ‘how long is a piece of string’ question.

It depends on the power of the motor, the size of the battery, the weight of the biffer sat on top, type of tyres, etc.

My Rail for example, with a 750wh battery & Bosch full power motor, with my chiselled 85kg physique on top, can do 2500m of vertical elevation in EMTB, probably close to 3000m in Tour & a bit more in Eco.

I have the settings turned down a bit, but not much.

I have other friends who like their pies a bit too much, who can just about get 1000m of vert out of a 540 battery.

Just plodding along normal riding, rather than Up&Down, probably a fair old way I would guess. I’ve never done that though, as that’s not what riding is for me.

ON a previous kitted ebike I had I managed to do a 375 battery in 8 miles

Thanks chap, I realize it’s not an easy answer, but I wondered how much I would worry about the range with a ebike. My partners works van is electric and range worries are quite real.

climbs are to be tolerated for the fun bits.

I just don’t get this view.
2/3’s of most rides are up hill, if you only like the downs then you’re spending the majority of a ride doing something you don’t like.

Climbs are great fun, particularly hard, twisty ones that are a good

Exactly. All this crap spouted by some of the early posters about ebikes being better on fire road ascents shows how completely they’ve missed the point. If you’re going up ( or indeed down, or along) a fire road then you’ve picked the wrong route. ;-)

Arthritis in the knees gave me the choice of either riding a couch for the rest of my days or riding an ebike……I bought an ebike and now I can keep up with the youngsters once more….

If you’re going up ( or indeed down, or along) a fire road then you’ve picked the wrong route. 😉

Are you american?  We do not have fire roads in the UK :-)

Like I say picked completely the wrong route…
:-)

Are you american? We do not have fire roads in the UK 🙂

What’s your definition of a fireroad then ?

A road built into forests in the US to allow access for firefighting.  thats what a fire road is.  In the UK we have forestry roads, estate roads and various other things like BOATs.  We do not have fire roads

I’ve always understood it to be a colloquialism for the double-track roads through woods, which in plantations are often along the fire breaks (gaps in the wooded areas to stop forest fires spreading as easily). Any plantation in the UK has these.

“If you’re going up ( or indeed down, or along) a fire road then you’ve picked the wrong route.”

In busier areas at busier times it’s often good manners to ride up the fire roads rather than the singletrack, so you don’t spoil someone else’s descent.

Yeah I say fire road.

I am both lazy and efficient.

Always called them forest roads (off the key of early orienteering maps) or logging roads (picked up in BC).

@colp
Yep shitest of the shit.
All he ever does is roll down a hill.

Back on topic.
If previous evidence is anything to go by the ani brigade that protest the hardest will be the ones that suddenly go quiet for a while and are then reborn as if they invented it.
There’s at least one of them already on started this thread. 🤣

What Is the range of an eBike using sensible amount of power? ie not turbo every where and not eco mode.

It depends on how you manage it.
My Ribble Gravel Al-e has a 250wh battery and saw its first serious distance ride at the Dorset Dirt Dash in May (excellent event, BTW)
As it’s a bike packing event (loaded up) it’s pretty hilly (purbecks), and I’m not the best of climbers (biffer) I was a little concerned whether the battery would last the 50 miles to the campsite (and charging facilities) on the first day.
My fears proved to be unfounded – my bike has a light which changes colour as the charge drops…
White – 100% to 75%
Green – 74% to 50%
Amber – 49% to 25%
Red – 24% and below
All day long, my riding buddy kept asking “hasn’t it gone green yet?”
The answer was consistently “no” – until just after the pub stop at about 45 miles in, so I felt justified in going full turbo over the last (fairly long) hill.
Arrived at the campsite with 68% charge, which was very pleasing.
On the second day, I felt confident enough to use the assist quite a bit more, and just went full on turbo for the climb up from Old Harry Rocks, back to Swanage.
So, this and subsequent rides have given me a really good feel for battery range from a distance/climbing point of view – no more range anxiety.

This will, of course, vary from one individual to another, depending on fitness, weight etc. but you’ll probably be pleasantly surprised.

Or the ebikers who claim they turn the motor off or only use minimal assistance – aye right! Why bother with an ebike then?

Never claim to turn it off (a 50lb bike with 2.8 tyres is bloody horrendous to pedal), but as I’ve said many times, I ride mostly in eco (minimal assistance?). It gives enough assistance to keep up with the fit lads, or have a nice pedal on my own. Turbo is only needed for the really tricky technical uphills, but it does get used. A full ride in turbo wouldn’t be what I want out of an ebike

I have lowered the gears on my road and gravel bikes to cope with hills. I don’t discount buying an ebike at some point but still value bikes being simple mechanical objects that are relatively easy to maintain.

I looked in a posh road bike shop window, they had a road bike where the only sign of cables or brake pipes were tiny bits of brake pipe near the discs. In one way it looked quite elegant but I can’t imagine trying to repair it.

It just bothers me a little that ebikes could ditch me miles from home with a broken bike or dead electrics which is not easy to fix on the road side.

A road built into forests in the US to allow access for firefighting. thats what a fire road is. In the UK we have forestry roads, estate roads and various other things like BOATs. We do not have fire roads

We have fire roads where I live. They are roads wide enough for fire engines and goes through most part of the forest. They have gates and are not for general car use. Don’t think there is an official designation but their purpose is for fire and logging activities (and the postman!)

Arriving late to the party, riding either MTB, road, wife, is about being spent at the end of it. The more I do, the fitter I get, the more I get out of it. I don’t want anything to assist me getting up ‘that hill’ as getting up and down is the challenge.

Each to their own I guess, but for me, at 40, an e-bike is losing that element of ‘I achieved it’ and therefore giving up.

For everything else it feels like it’s just the human race’s quest for convenience over a bit of hard, but ultimately rewarding, work. Always backed up with excuses like too old, bad knee, not enough time.

+1

You’re just making excuses to justify your lack of oooomph.

All this crap spouted by some of the early posters about ebikes being better on fire road ascents shows how completely they’ve missed the point. If you’re going up ( or indeed down, or along) a fire road then you’ve picked the wrong route. 😉

Depends on the ride planned, and I’m guessing your emoji means you know that.
There are plenty riding spots that use fire roads to get up as quickly as possible before coming down through the trees. The climb isn’t part of the fun, it’s just an unavoidable necessity. I’ve missed my ebike this year for those days. If you don’t do that kind of riding, then you might not understand. 

There are plenty of other types of riding where I enjoy the climb  Borrowdale Bash and the Lakes generally always come to mind, Glentress Black climb I like as far as trail centre climbs go  – all of those I prefer on a non ebike (for now).

I don’t want anything to assist me getting up ‘that hill’ as getting up and down is the challenge.

I don’t see what’s challenging about slogging up the climb to NYNY for example,  sat there for an hour on a fire road, when you could do in less than half the time – and ride the trail twice in the same time. I’ve done that on a normal bike about a dozen times this year, every time wishing I had a motor.

Because it’s individual and riding up hill is as much of the fun as descending, be it technical or otherwise. The challenge is getting to the top as quick as possible, whilst having enough in you to go full chat down hill. Sometimes you are the windscreen, sometimes you are the fly and I tend to meditate on Rule 5 a lot when I am feeling weak. 

Saying that I don’t tend to do much trail centre stuff, which I am assuming NYNY is, but when I do, I quite like hammering up fire roads as it gives me a work out and in the longer-term increases my fitness. 

Because it’s individual…

…and

The challenge is getting to the top as quick as possible

Yes it is, and no, not for everybody it’s not.

You’re absolutely correct, the climb is part of the challenge for you. Those who don’t view the climbs as the challenge and instead would rather ebike or uplift are absolutely right too.  I don’t think both sides need to try and fail to convince each other.

Beef’s coming out soon, which is definitely more important.  ;)

You’re absolutely correct, the climb is part of the challenge for you.

This is me, but now I can approach climbs that were previously off the menu as being too difficult, or too energetically costly to tie into a ride. Options for routes become much more multivariate. It’s great!

Merry christmas everyone, by the way.

As a fairly fit 40ish person, an ebike isn’t an encouragement to ride, I can ride everything I want with the fitness and bikes I have.  Sure it’s tough at times but that’s never a reason not to go.  If you need an ebike to enjoy the ride, maybe that’s because you’re wired different, ride different or live somewhere different.

For me, with what I ride and what’s around me.  An ebike would be a crutch I don’t need.  IDIC.

As a fairly fit 40ish person, an ebike isn’t an encouragement to ride, I can ride everything I want with the fitness and bikes I have. Sure it’s tough at times but that’s never a reason not to go. If you need an ebike to enjoy the ride, maybe that’s because you’re wired different, ride different or live somewhere different.

For me, with what I ride and what’s around me. An ebike would be a crutch I don’t need. IDIC.

However, so can many ebikers. They can ride it, but they want to ride more within their time? I can do say 5 top to bottom at FoD on a manual, or 10 on an Eeb in the same time.

It’s not always the same for people.

Sometimes mud week I get an hour during work time, I can hit the same trails day in day out on the manual as you can only cover so much ground. Or I can throw it in boost and go do other stuff and be back in time for meeting

I’ve done SDW in a day, I’ve done long daft rides, I will still do SDW next year, does that mean I shouldn’t ride an Eeb, well, not really. It’s all fun and trails.

Another thing the Eeb gives is the ability to explore more. That route you’ve seen in the woods but you think “if it’s crap it’ll be horrific to get back” well you can still take it.

Yesterday I was at FoD on Eeb, tomorrow I’m at Afan killing myself in manual, Wed I’m on either at BPW. Owning the Eeb doesn’t mean you have to sell your others.

That’s why I put “for me….” And “IDIC”.

For short rides less than 30km (sub 800m of climbing)  I can’t imagine an ebike actually gaining me much time.  On the flats and downs I’m pedalling at the limit of gearing,  in the downs I’m fairly fast with the lightweight gear I have (120mm bike with lightweight wheels), but there’s no way I’d halve my time on an ebike.  No bloody way at all.  Average speed on most of my rides is 15-18kph.  Are you telling me I’d be averaging 30?

Depends if it’s restricted 😄

Daffy – if you do the climbs I do at 15.5 mph I would be astonished.   There are climbs I take it on I cannot get up without a break without assistance and am at 3mph all the way – more like 3x the speed on the ebike.  30 km is a very short ride indeed.  For long rides I use the non ebike but a long ride for me is several days with camping kit. with thousands of m of climbing.

Owning the Eeb doesn’t mean you have to sell your others.

I would guess that it’s something that happens naturally over time.
That people may initially try to keep a balance but it becomes harder over time.
As fitness and strength drops and you have the experience of zinging up climbs.

I would guess that it’s something that happens naturally over time.

You’d be guessing wrong with me then.
Owned ebikes since 2018 and still use and have bought new unassisted bikes as well as ebikes. Same as everyone i ride with.
It’s just another choice of bike to ride.
Nothing more nothing less.

As fitness and strength drops

Again not happened with me.

if you do the climbs I do at 15.5 mph I would be astonished.

So would I, but he was stating the average speed over his whole ride was 15-18kph, up and down.

“The option of upping the assistence level is too easy to succumb to.”

But is it though? I’ve seen people killing themselves on rowing machines that don’t even go anywhere! And plenty of people I know do Zwift races on static bikes – why don’t they just sit on the sofa instead?

Because they’re trying to stay fit (and reduce their impact on ‘our’ NHS), something that e-bikers pretty much by definition have indeed given up on. Welcome to the diabetes ward. Personally my boredom threshold is too low to ever consider rowing machines or Zwift, but my nagging sense of self respect kinda rules out e-bikes too. Propelling a bike using my own legs and lungs seems like an acceptable compromise; going interesting places on a machine that can do 100+ miles/day on a couple of bottles of water and a few bowls of rice or pasta.

I’m 56, you know.

Have you ever ridden one?  I’m guessing not from your post.  YOu can pootle along putting little effort in but I certainly do not do that at all.  Put as much effort into climbing as you do on a non ebike then you climb a lot faster.  When I ride mine I am still working hard – just I could do 3 climbs rather than one before getting knackered but the overall time out is the same or more  Just a lot more climbing.

With the bosch gen 4 motor I have and how it is set up in emtb setting you have to be working hard to get the max output from the motor.  ride gently then you get little assist unless its in turbo.  Its also harder work downhill from the effect of hauling all that weight – I get home with an aching upper body as its getting more of a workout

So yes – you can ride the same ride in the same time with little effort as you would on a non ebike but thats not how I ride.  I put the same amount of effort in over the same amount of time, get a greater workout on descents, just do 2 or 3 times the climbing so as to get more descents in.  I am as knackered either way but on the ebike I get longer doing the fun bit – descending and I get just as much of a workout

You’ve dodged your lack of comprehension of Daffy’s post, that’s ok.

Have you ever ridden one? I’m guessing not from your post

You’d be wrong. My sister, a non driver, has been on one since long before the fat lads jumped on the bandwagon, using it as a car replacement. I get the fun stuff, doing the maintenance that keeps it running (and taking it out for test rides to see if what I’ve fixed works). As a non car owner myself, I’m a big fan of people of people riding e-bikes instead of driving; riding e-bikes instead of, well, bikes, not so much. But I understand you like to talk about your environmental credentials while dobbing out of your responsibilities. Again, that’s ok. It’s why we’re screwed. At least we can agree on that.