Is ebiking “giving in/up”?

As a relative noob to a kenevo SL, I would respectfully suggest that anyone that hasn’t used an eeb for proper riding is talking out of their hoop. It’s already clear to me that its not what I thought it was going to be.

The Kenevo is a decent bike and the power is a tool. How one uses a tool is up to the user. There isn’t one of us on this thread thats identical in the way we use our non-powered bikes, let alone eebs.

It’s surprisingly myopic not to recognise that. To group all eeb users together is just classic binary thinking.

Eebs give choices for mtbing in a way that ones own little legs just can’t.

My garmin metrics show I’m working more overall, I’m gaining fitness and recovering more readily from my efforts.

My riding experience is I’m getting more trails, both up and down and doing more of the good stuff. The extended range and time on the bike before I’m spent means I’m even feeling more benefits on a whole body basis from the greater proportion of ‘body english’ trails.

Will someone present me with a counter argument as to why any of these things are bad, or ‘giving in’?

You know all those bits of singletrack that are quite flat but have just enough gradient to be fun downhill? Add a motor and put some effort in and you can have fun on them downhill (no motor required) and UPHILL too!

I was reminded of this when riding home up one of these gentle climbs on my singlespeed, thinking how I work just as hard on the ebike but I go loads faster and it’s way more fun.

i’m in a road biking club with a number of older guys – a number of them have E-Bikes, and its a regular topic of discussion.

Basically the collective opinion seems to be that as you get older a bit of assistance brings a bit of joy back to cycling as you can get up the hills without knocking yourself out, none of them are chasing strava numbers anymore – just riding for enjoyment.

3 of us went out this morning, the oldest was 79 (28 years older than me) on his new E-bike. He had it on the lowest assistance setting (+50w) and flew up the hills. He’s really happy with it and its really nice to see people still getting a buzz from cycling at that age – i hope i’m doing the same if i’m still around.

The ebike evangelists are in town.

I like bikes to be simple, uncomplicated.

I enjoy riding my bike, I don’t feel I want to bother with an ebike at the moment. I spent half my cycling life riding a single speed, I have gears now to help with the hills. When the time comes I might get an ebike but not yet.

I normally cycle 40 to 60 miles when I am out. I am not fast, but I enjoy cycling, I don’t need smart comments from ebikers.

I think we can agree that e-bikes for 79 year olds are great, but for a 20-30 year old, significantly less so. 

But the same has been leveled at folk cycling on the road using 32t rear sprockets. 

I’d like to know what the next step will be after everyone (or pretty much everyone) has moved onto ebikes. Is just an incremental advance in motors, power and battery life? Or something completely different like MTB Zwift with a headset?

Pretty close to “pick a side and be a dick about it” after 4 pages… no-ones forcing anyone to ride a fixie, gravel, downcountry, fatbike or whatever you’ve chosen to spend your money on. Just ride the frikkin thing! 

don’t need smart comments from ebikers.

No doubt you’d rather they be dumb to satisfy your prejudice without challenge? 😉

But the same has been leveled at folk cycling on the road using 32t rear sprockets

And multi speed cassettes and derailleurs.

and so it continues.

He’s really happy with it and its really nice to see people still getting a buzz from cycling at that age…

Aye, but he’s not cycling. He’s doing something different.
Doesn’t mean it’s bad but it’s not cycling.

My garmin metrics show I’m working more overall, I’m gaining fitness and recovering more readily from my efforts.

This seems a bit delusional to me. The idea that riding an ebike is better for fitness than cycling.

When you are struggling up a hill, you should get one of these is not what you want to hear.

Ebikes remove some of the misery from cycling, remove misery and you loose the essence of cycling :)

Sorry, after riding I had to drive to St Davids. I took both but ride the Orbea today. Did it matter, well yes and no. It mattered because there’s no way I’d have completed the riding I did on a manual.
Did it matter from the context of being mocked by someone, not at all.

It wasn’t my hardest day ever on a bike I’ll admit, but it was bloody enjoyable razzing the blues and red (extended version) at FoD.

Top fun, top day. No pics. Pub now

Glad you had a great day out. Enjoy the beer you’ve earned it 🍺🍺🍺

Did it improve your inner grin?

If it did thats great. Have a nice christmas.

Did it improve your inner grin?

Every single time.

Not a chance I’d have done this ride on a normal MTB. Granted, most of it was gravel, but some bits weren’t

Also not a chance I’d keep up with some of the young lads uphill on a group ride. It wouldn’t be enjoyable.

Giving up, no, I still ride a normal bike

How is riding an ebike not cycling? Really confused by this

Did it improve your inner grin?

It was woods, mud, roots, berms, how could it not? 😄

This seems a bit delusional to me. The idea that riding an ebike is better for fitness than cycling.

Thats fair a comment, and I agree my statement does seem counterintuitive. But I now know your conclusion is made from a position of ignorance because I was there 3 weeks ago.

It’s clear that plenty of riders are just slamming them into turbo and riding everywhere like that, and I think thats where most peoples thoughts about them stop. But its more nuanced than that.

Clearly, I can’t speak for everyone’s use, but whats happening with me is that at the top of every climb, I can use the bikes assistance to carry on riding whilst recovering instead of waiting for recovery stationary like I always have done.

So I continue.

Since these bikes won’t provide assistance without pedaling, every aspect of the ride still requires my input and thus my exercise is more continuous rather than staccato, and goes on for longer, even at a lower level because of assist. My efforts on a ride appear to being smoothed on the peak output side of things, and look closer to the more steady output of a road ride.

Despite this, I can easily overmatch the power of the bike for short bursts, so I’m still getting access to veins bulging, eyes boggling, peak output moments, but as I tire during a ride I can rely in the bikes assistance a bit more and overall I’m doing more, not less.

Why does stuff have to be ‘ok’? Why is ‘cheating’ even mentioned?
People are out on their bikes enjoying what the world has, and likely gaining a level of enjoyment from it that may just make them inclined to look after it a bit more.

It smacks of elitism, and there are some pretty crappy attitudes to humans on this thread.
Why do we need another strand to the pathetic tribalism that already seems to exist between genre and micro genre in bike riding?

If I’m out on a bike, and I see someone else on a bike, It makes me happy. And chances are them as well.

It’s like a bloody playground in here sometimes, and not in a good way.

Be nice, say hi.

I don’t get how people are making comparison to things like larger cassette sprockets, mountain bikes with suspension etc. The main difference is that all those advanced in technology still relied 100% on the riders energy to move whereas an ebike adds a very significant amount of power via a motor. It’s motorcycling.

I am not against them at all, my girlfriend has one as she’s very much a part time recreational cyclist amongst too many other more primary hobbies, and it allows her to ride with me without being miserable, but I would never have one myself at the age of 30 I would just get fitter on my own legs if I wanted to.

I know a fair few people that have bought them, had them a year then sold them and came out significantly less fit despite riding significantly more. Garmin stats tell you nothing about how strong your leg muscles are or how sore they’ll be the next day regardless of what heart rate they tell you you’re riding at during the workout.

For me an ebike would take away a huge part of what I find enjoyable about riding.
So much these days is ‘assisted’- technology makes our lives easier in a huge amount of ways so I like to have something which takes a bit of effort to get the most out of it – my performance and ability (or lack of) on a bike is all down to me and nothing else.
At 52 I’m probably riding better than I ever have and don’t (yet) feel the need for an ebike.
This is of course only my version of how to enjoy yourself on a bike, as long as whatever you do works for you then all is good.

Had a chat with a guy on a Kenevo today, he was raving about how great his ebike was but also said that his rides are limited to the battery range so normally he rides in eco mode. I thought that he’d probably be better off riding a lightweight xc bike which would weigh about half the weight of his bike, and he wouldn’t be limited on his riding routes. Just a thought.

How is riding an ebike not cycling? Really confused by this

In the same way that riding a motorbike isn’t cycling.

You turn the pedals, the bike moves. That’s cycling.

Ebike or regular bike.

@copa wow just wow 😳

Black/white thinking going on with you dude.

Collins dictionary:
What do you mean by cycling?
1. the act or sport of riding or traveling by bicycle, motorcycle, etc. 2. Also called: bicycle race, bicycle racing Sport. a race on lightweight bicycles with low handlebars, conducted for specified distances or against time on a dirt or board track or over public roads between cities.

You turn the pedals, the bike moves. That’s cycling.

Ebike or regular ebike.

Yes, there is a word for that which clarifies the addition of a motor, it’s motorcycling.

Had a chat with a guy on a Kenevo today, he was raving about how great his ebike was but also said that his rides are limited to the battery range so normally he rides in eco mode. I thought that he’d probably be better off riding a lightweight xc bike which would weigh about half the weight of his bike, and he wouldn’t be limited on his riding routes. Just a thought.

My Kenevo (1st gen) will do around 20 miles/2500ft riding mostly in eco. But I prefer riding in eco for just a bit of assistance. Turbo is for really nasty or technical climbs that I’d normally end up walking. Trail mode sometimes gets used inbetween.

I have a spare battery for longer rides (see above). I have eco set at 20%, but for the ride I posted above, set it to 15% and got 29 miles from the first battery

For me an ebike would take away a huge part of what I find enjoyable about riding.

For me, it makes the part I DONT enjoy more enjoyable. Climbs that I can’t clean, long drags on the return leg, blowing out of my arse trying to keep up with lads 20 years younger than me.

But the fitness aspect – yes, you can get a workout and I always end up sweaty and sometimes max out my heart rate on an eeb – but it’s definitely harder on a normal bike, even out on my own, at my own pace. Works your leg muscles more

Goodness, this thread really has deteriorated into some proper nonsense bickering, hasn’t it. It’s now rather pointless, so hopefully it gets closed soon ! 

Black/white thinking going on with you dude.

It is black/white because they’re two different things.
A cyclist is somebody who rides a bicycle. A bicycle is powered by a human.

Goodness, this thread really has deteriorated into some proper nonsense bickering, hasn’t it. It’s now rather pointless, so hopefully it gets closed soon !

Is this your first time on the internet?

Yes, there is a word for that which clarifies the addition of a motor, it’s motorcycling.

nope. The law says if you have a throttle, have more than an average output of more than 250w, or assists over 15.5mph, thats motorcycling.

Not got those? Still cycling, and you can do it anywhere non e-bikes are allowed, without any insurance or tax.

I posted above, set it to 15% and got 29 miles from the first battery

Gotcto confess, I thought range had got better than that. I guess it’s the up that makes the difference. And the rider weight. Physics init.

@copa an ebike is powered by a human and assisted by a motor. What’s the issue apart from semantics and you being a grump sod for the sake of it🤷🏻
A bike is a bike is a bike

I thought that he’d probably be better off riding a lightweight xc bike which would weigh about half the weight of his bike, and he wouldn’t be limited on his riding routes. Just a thought.

Small point…lightweight XC bikes are ****. Not everyone wants to be a dirt roadie.

Gotcto confess, I thought range had got better than that.

It has, mine is 5 years old and has a 500wh battery, compared to most now having a 700wh

Small point…lightweight XC bikes are ****. Not everyone wants to be a dirt roadie.

The guy was riding natural trails around Crieff, trails I’d ride on a cx bike, my 120mm xc bike would be ample bike.

@Bruce Spoken like a true Flandrian!

A bike is a bike is a bike

Because that’s obviously not true.
There’s a fundamental difference between something powered by a human or powered/assisted by an engine. They are two different things.
The reason I get annoyed when the two are conflated is complex and probably very boring.
And would involve talking about capitalism.

I’m feeling like weeksy trolled us all then pissed off out for a ride 😀

There’s a fundamental difference between something powered by a human or powered/assisted by an engine

Pedant mode

An ebike isn’t powered by an engine

/Pedant mode

And would involve talking about capitalism

You are way overthinking this dude. Chill 😂