Is ebiking “giving in/up”?

For me at the moment I think it would be. I’m not 40 yet and feel I have more to get done before I acknowledge that I’m past my best.

ultimately not achieving much except to knacker yourself out prematurely

But this. At the moment I’m knackering myself doing the stuff I enjoy the least – climbing in 1st or 2nd gear.

pushing hard on the pedals but ultimately not achieving much except to knacker yourself out prematurely

Sounds to me like you don’t really like cycling.

Sounds to me like you don’t really like cycling.

Sounds to me like you don’t know what on earth you’re talking about! 🤦🏻

You do realise that cycling can be many different things to many different people, right…?🤷🏻‍♂️

If you’re relatively young, healthy and have plenty of spare time then there is no reason to not be fit or even very fit. There is definitely a place for eebs but I’d rather ride a regular pedal bike.

It really is a shame that if you ride in a group and they all get eebs then you’d really need to keep up with the jones or get left behind. 

I’m not anti-eebs, and can see them as progress in a way but I just don’t think most folks actually need them. But that can be leveled at suspension etc…..

I’ve got the Rise , before that I had a full power Kona Remote, I get more involved and knackered on the Rise which is exactly what I was after , last time at FOD it was on the Rise it was ace 👍

Are you old and/or infirm? If not, then yes ebikes are giving in/up.

You missed out lazy! 😂

Sounds to me like you don’t really like cycling.

Cycling is many different things to many different people.

I’m not a cyclist more someone that loves riding bikes.
But my preferences are for more the feeling of balance, brake control, line choice, carrying speed and last of all pure fitness.
As a rider with these prefences I’m not fussed how I get to the top to get my buzz. I’m easy on getting in a van with a trailer, a chairlift, an ebike or pedalling.
I’m also quite happy pedalling for 1000m in one hit for one good decent or 2000 metres over a day.
What I don’t like though is people that try and tell me I don’t like cycling because of my choices.

You do realise that cycling can be many different things to many different people, right…?🤷🏻‍♂️

Cycling is pushing the pedals to make a bike move. If you consider that to be not achieving much or too much like hard work then I’d say you don’t like cycling.

Just out of interest, how many metres of ascent on a ride do folks generally ride on an eeb compared to a regular bike?

I’m not a cyclist more someone that loves riding bikes.
But my preferences are for more the feeling of balance, brake control, line choice, carrying speed and last of all pure fitness.

Sounds like we agree.

My regular rides are between 1000 and 2000 meters regardless of bike type.
Though the 2000 rides are more regular on an assisted ride.

Round here it’s not a ride unless there’s 1000 meters.

Fitness deffo plays a factor and my mate tomorrow has been the reverse for many years, he’s been the one dying while I’m ok. He’s now got a Rail and he cruises while I die instead.

well here lies the answer the laziness question. If you are both on eebs, will you both end the ride exhausted, or both cruise round?

Sound like we agree.

I’m not going to speak for Stu (who I agree wholeheartedly with on this matter BTW), but that’s pretty much the opposite of what you’re saying…

You’re saying that cycling is purely about the act of pushing the pedals… It is there in black and white… It’s exactly what you wrote…

Cycling is pushing the pedals to make a bike move. If you consider that to be not achieving much or too much like hard work then I’d say you don’t like cycling.

Which is at complete odds with what Stu said in his previous post…

Cycling is pushing the pedals to make a bike move

Just a part of it for me, is that the only bit you like?

Sounds like we agree.

Not really but go with whatever you want.
I for one don’t care one way or the other.

I’ve recently bought a Cube Stereo e-bike, and all the above opinions have flitted through my mind at one time or another, but the final motivation was seeing my mates disappear into the distance on the climb out of Goathland on our way to Boggle Hole and I just did not have anything left in the tank to follow. I don’t consider myself elderly or infirm , I’m 55 and have been mtb riding for 25 years, but more seriously for about 12. I have covered loads of trail centres in Scotland, Wales and Northern England, lots of long distance rides including the Pennine Bridle way, Sandstone way, Howgills loop. I still commute a couple of times a week on the non assisted bike to maintain my fitness, but the e-bike is so I can keep going out with my mates for a few years longer. The surprising thing I have found is the elation of effortlessly crossing technical terrain on the e-bike is an absolute riot. I recommend the e-bike to you all without reservation. I don’t care if you think I’m a cheat.😁

Which is at complete odds with what Stu said in his previous post…

No its not. He said the bit he liked least was the pure fitness bit. Which is the pushing the pedals to make the bike go bit. And that’s who ebikes are for, those who like all the other stuff about riding bikes but not so much the pushing the pedals bit.

Don’t give up giving up.

@spin
This might come as a shock but you still have to push the pedals on an eeber.
Chairlifts and vans less so.
BTW I’m pretty fit as a side product of where I live and riding most days because I don’t have to go to work.
I still don’t judge folks on their bike riding ability by how fast they can pedal up a fireroad though…
I get far more knacker from really pushing on on descents than spinning up a fireroad whatever bike I happen to be on.

The surprising thing I have found is the elation of effortlessly crossing technical terrain on the e-bike is an absolute riot. I recommend the e-bike to you all without reservation

But that will go once you’re used to it, kind of like fitting a lighter wheeset, it’s really noticable on the first few rides or when compared to another bike with heavier wheels.

But that will go once you’re used to it, kind of like fitting a lighter wheeset, it’s really noticable on the first few rides or when compared to another bike with heavier wheels.

I  don’t think so. I’ve always enjoyed technical, but it takes a lot of effort….. feeling like some kind of Olympic athlete, and still enjoying picking the line and concentrating on the balance etc. is thrilling!

I’d come and join you on my Rise if I didn’t have mates coming around tomorrow and the fact I need to make a motor bash guard for it having lost the plastic one on Tuesdays’ night ride!

well here lies the answer the laziness question. If you are both on eebs, will you both end the ride exhausted, or both cruise round?

Being exhausted/knackered after a ride doesn’t mean it’s helped your fitness.

I can spend a week on chairlifts/uplifts, feel absolutely knackered at the end of each day, but noticeably lose base fitness (and put on weight!).

No I don’t think it’s giving up.

But I think I am giving up my ebike. Didn’t really use it very much at all this year so I’m almost certainly going to sell it.

I’ve had a great 2023 riding-wise and really enjoyed good old fashioned pedalling. Normal bikes are just so much better handling, IMO, particularly greasy tech.

That, and now my kids are getting older (late teens) I find I have more time opening up where I don’t so much need the time saving the ebike gave.

The other thing is that I can do bigger rides on just leg power than on the eeb. Even mainly in eco I could rinse a battery before I run out of legs (when I’m fit)

If you have to ask, then you already know the answer.

Just have some self-respect man!

This type of thread leaves me worrying that people have given up on Human innovation, and are so horrified to find the world changing around them, and wish to clutch onto the past that they desperately seek others who share their fears, and look for comfort by surrounding themselves with them.

I expect it was the same when steam trains replaced the horse and carriage. They spent their time writing letters in the comments sections of the newspapers of the day.

Surely the marker is if you look at the rides you are doing with an ebike and ones you did previously without and if yoi aren’t going further, faster or longer (or a bit of all 3) with motor assist then clearly you’ve given up to a certain extent. There might be very valid health reason but otherwise…..

For me MTB divides quite neatly into JRA and winch and plummet. I’ve always been 2 feet firmly of the JRA mindset and I guess mainly see the world from that perspective. For the winch and plummet gang I think different rules apply as it was never about the same things and I can see motor assist having very different reasoning.

Why has no-one shouted Judas yet? The beautiful thing about those protesting ebikes are a sign of weakness is your signal is getting weaker, weaker, oh dear I can’t hear you moaning as I’m already at the top of the hill. What a pity.

For what it’s worth I’ve moved to a half fat ebike as it rides so much better downwards. I get overtaken easily by full fat ebikes but I somehow manage to understand that doesn’t affect me in the slightest and I can be happy others are out having a good time. I could call them cheats but then my brain engages and woop instead I think happier balanced thoughts.

I´m bike fit as a side effect of riding my bike, but I ride for fun. I think all of us cyclists are teeny bit masochistic at heart, otherwise we be doing something else, and I think most of us a teensy bit ´pleased with self´ with burning thighs and scorched lungs at the top of hill when a passer by says ´did you just come up here on your bike!´which you don get with an ebike. But then the 8 year old in us secretly loves the idea of the ebike.

and get fitter as a result.

Don´t get me wrong, I love ebikes and I think they´re huge fun, I´ve ridden a couple and it never fails to put a smile on my face, and why would feel guilty about that, but last I rode one in France on holiday, and rode it around the same bit of forest as they day before but on a regular bike, and had my heart strap on both times, and if I did just ebikes…I´m sorry but I don think I´d get fitter just on the ebike.

Same for me, my only proper exercise is riding my bike and being pretty fit is because I like riding bikes and have done for 50 years. To me I would see it as giving in/up to use an e-bike as riding up hills is part of the enjoyment of my riding but for others, ride whatever you want to have fun.

I tend to ride shorter distances but more often, so just 20 miles a time but 3 or 4 times a week 52 weeks a year so as I am getting older I am just getting a tiny bit slower but enjoy it just as much and can’t see how or why an eBike would make it more fun for any part of my riding.

Had my Levo SL for about 2 months now and it’s ace. I ride further, faster and my heart rate is the same as when I’m on my analogue bike. It’s also getting me out more at the worst time of year, I’m commuting on it almost every day as well as using it instead of the car to visit friends.
The righteous outrage from some folk on this thread is hilarious!

I guess I’ve got to put myself in the “giving in” camp. I haven’t bought one yet but it’s likely I will in the next few weeks. I’ve resisted the temptation but over the last year I’ve gradually started driving over to trails that in the past I would have ridden to, my riding distance and time spent riding has gradually reduced and those rides back to the top climbs have become harder. I’m still getting up them without stopping but they really have become a slow plod.

I have ridden an ebike a couple of times… my son’s girlfriend’s hardtail that was a bit small for me… but I thoroughly enjoyed it and rode for a lot longer and with more “climbing” than recently. I’ve now decided that at 76 the time is right and I keep visualising how easy some of those plodding climbs will be in comparison and how much fun doing multiple downhill runs will be.

The righteous outrage from some folk on this thread is hilarious!

I think you meant ‘self-righteous’, but anyway I’m not really seeing any of that. What I’m seeing is people who ride bikes in different ways for different reasons. Those is us who don’t want an e-bike (yet) are mostly saying that it would be like taking a machine to the gym to lift the weights for you. Those who are in favour of e-bikes are mostly saying that they ride for the excitement of the downs and the assistance means they get more of what they like. In the early days of the magazine, the first category would have been reading Singletrack and the second category would have been reading MBUK, but times, bikes, and trails have changed.

We’ve done this subject to death before and the same arguments come up every time.

I’m not a fan of the eebs for various reasons, but those are my reasons nobody else’s, we don’t have to agree. To me yes they are giving up to an extent, but I’ll acknowledge that ‘giving up’ isn’t necessarily always a bad thing.
The majority seem to have a bit of a hardon for the future E-waste on wheels that bike companies are now churning out and the majority tend to been seen as being ‘right’, so crack on, two wheels are still better than four or none.

This sentiment worries me though:

Ebiking is giving in to fun and giving up on misery.

If you consider cycling (unassisted) to be ‘misery’ how did you ever stick with it long enough to want to spunk £10k on an eeeb?
Riding bikes is always fun, it is it’s own reward, even when it’s hard it beats most other activities. I really can’t fathom that mindset.

Anyway, Merry Christmas.

I find myself agreeing with almost every comment on this thread – apart from the stuff about ‘Human innovation’. It’s one of those things where there are so many variables, mostly human ones, that you can twist it any way you want. E-bikes, as has been said, are just tools that you can use any way you want. You can make minimal effort if you choose or you can, using one third party Specialized app, set up your bike to adjust assistance so you maintain a particular constant power level. 

People’s attitudes and goals to riding bikes are massively variable. You can be in it for the pure fitness, for the hedonistic enjoyment of pedalling downhill, because you love nadgery tech, for a bit of everything. It’s like watching television, you can choose to view anything from gormless cartoons through to high brow documentaries or impenetrably weird art house cinema. It doesn’t make TV ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Hell, you can go to the theatre as well.

Mostly people’s comments say more about their personal take on riding than anything fresh or interesting about e-bikes, which is probably why we keep having this conversation over and over again. 

Like the theory of a e-bike but until manufacturers manage to get the weight down considerably I’ll stick to normal bikes.
Road bikes & zwift for fitness and mountain bikes for fun. I get that you can get more downs in on an e-bike but for my local trails you seem to just do more poor quality laps as the best tracks are steep and the extra weight makes them hard to slow down.

In the late 90’s and 2000’s I only had a downhill bike. I’d drive for miles to some woods somewhere to meet up with other people riding downhill bikes and we’d push up hills to ride down them.

We’d push up for 20 to 30 minutes to ride a 1 or 2 minute section. It’s madness when you think about it. But, I love riding DH and technical, challenging trails.

I’ve never been a ‘cyclist’. I only like razzing on fun stuff. I’ve reluctantly embraced pedalling around because I live in the middle of England with no access to mountains or uplifts and I’m surrounded by miles and miles of bland bridelways.

When I go to Wharny I see big crews of lads doing multiple laps of steep DH stuff and flying back up while I’m blowing out my arse. I’d love to join in.

I will get an e-bike but I’m waiting for them to be better. Too many drawbacks and reliability issues with current technology. I’m hoping that next year’s sales prices are as good as they were this year and I’ll see what’s available. I had too much other stuff to pay for this year.

Mostly people’s comments say more about their personal take on riding than anything fresh or interesting about e-bikes, which is probably why we keep having this conversation over and over again. 

+1

Like it or not in time MTB will be a powered sport for the majority and riding off-road on a standard MTB is a future niche. 

I’d probably have an ebike already if they were 10lb lighter and still “full” power but that’s a bit because I’ve no real idea what they can do for me.

Whenever I’ve ridden one it’s been a pretty gentle bimble with people who’re less fast or “gnar” even than me (which means they’re getting those people out & about, which is great), so I haven’t pushed the bikes or myself hardly at all.  If I had one and went out properly I think I might be shopping quite soon after.  FWIW I think I’d end up with something like a rise, despite the “low” power though I’m not quite sure why.

I don’t think any less of people on e-bikes (unless they’re behaving like pricks – same as ordinary bikers doing it really).

I hope you take the ebike weeksy, try out yr mate’s too and then give us a report

And I’ve yet to come across anybody who’s bought an eMTB and got fitter. Everyone I know has got fatter.

I did.
Was so unfit I just wasn’t going out riding, as it was a thoroughly miserable experience, even worse riding with others. Got an ebike and was out all the time, which got me fit enough to enjoy riding regular bikes again. Got the ebike in early 2016, was doing solo endurance XC events a year later