Is ebiking “giving in/up”?

I’m neither offended or holier than anything. I’m just poking people with sticks to see how many pages this can go.

No surprise that e-bikes are selling well when compared to normal bikes. People are generally lazy bastards and love new and shiny. I am surprised at the percentages though as they’re **** expensive. Are people that well off or just getting in to debt?

A lot of people are well off. The cost of living crisis that the media like to mention every 10 minutes is for those that were already struggling and the thought of buying a bike for the amount that the well off ebikers spend on a tyre would be out of their reach.

Is this thread just an ecu chamber of those justifying their pathetic behaviour? 

I know right, grown men and women riding around in giant circles on bikes in the wood like a bunch of kids, its pathetic.

You need to look at who’s buying eMTBs, and they roughly fall in to two categories.

You have those who’ve bought them in addition to a normal MTB, so they’re essentially buying a new category of bike instead of typically replacing an existing bike.

Then you have those who’re relatively new to the sport, or getting back into it. This is probably where the biggest growth has come from, as it’s the demographic that previously might have tried hiring a MTB, realised it’s actually hard work to cycle up a hill and not bothered trying it again, but an eMTB means they no longer have that fitness barrier.

In terms of overall sales, I’d say that if it hadn’t been for the new riders, MTB sales overall would have been majorly down. Knowing those in the trade, it’s got a similar feeling to the banking crash, where sales nosedived, however this time they’ve been partially propped up by new riders.

Plus there are a lot of existing riders who’ve simply been upgrading existing bikes. They’ve looked at replacing their bike, but what are they actually going to get with a ‘new’ bike? The answer is not a lot ‘new’. Geometry has pretty much stabilised. There’s no new latest and greatest wheel size. No new major developments in suspension.
So rather than spend several £k on a ‘new’ bike, they’ve been spending a £k or 2 on upgrades.

It’s not as simple as saying eMTBs are the future because they are selling more. You need to look at the reasons behind the numbers.

But whenever any kind of substantial effort is required, such as going up a mountain, people are doing little more than waggling their legs.

Just how powerful do you think eBikes are?

I don’t think many folks are riding up and down mountains. More up and down hills and fire roads.  I’ve had a go on a couple of e-bikes and pedalling is definitely involved. No standing up needed though and distinctively less zigzagging from tiredness on steep hills. I’m a sucker for punishment though and quite like that horrible bit where you run out of gears, stand up, make strange noises and refuse to look straight ahead for fear of seeing just how far up the hill you haven’t got since you last looked!

In a slightly amusing twist of fate, I snapped a spoke on the Trek on run 1 at BPW today. Scooted to van and jumped on the Orbea Rise and did all day uplifts on it.

Wettest day in history, trails were like rivers. We had a blast. So so so wet !

So so so wet !

Knackered motor warranty claim incoming… 

But seriously, fair play to you for going out in this weather and making the most of it. Getting out on a bike and enjoying yourself seems to be something that people here forget to do on a regular basis. 

Just how powerful do you think eBikes are?

Based on this, powerful enough to make climbs a breeze on the lowest setting.

Glad you had a good time. 👍

Best day that I had at BPW was when it was heavy rain all day long.

I can get a normal bike over a locked deer fence but I doubt I could do this with a heavy bike.

Well since we’re just airing general grievances now 😉 I’ve noticed a trend of e-bikers complaining/reporting locked gates across tracks that don’t have suitable gates to wheel an e-bike through.

Personally I appreciate that the perfect access scenario would be large kissing gates on EVERY gate in the countryside, but there’s bound to be a backlash from landowners/managers if they find themselves getting reported to access officers purely because an e-biker couldn’t manhandle a bike over an otherwise perfectly good style.

This came up relatively recently near Stirling, the local e-bike contingent had to be dissuaded from reporting a local land manager due to some locked gates that still required climbing. Turns out said landowner was engaged in some delicate access negotiations that might have been derailed.

I guess my bigger grievance is the lovely local trail where someone who obviously couldn’t lift their bike over a gate clearly decided to just trample the fence beside it. Guaranteed to endear us all to the landowners 🙄

jumped on the Orbea Rise and did all day uplifts on it.

You Monster, how dare you enjoy yourself with first seeking approval from [handwavey] some random people on the internet telling you you’re wrong to have fun like that [/handwavy]

Based on this, powerful enough to make climbs a breeze on the lowest setting.

Just not so.  My bikes eco is + 50% ie barely enough to counter the weight of the bike.

Worth remembering that while we can haul bikes over gates, it’s just an annoyance usually, there are others with a genuine grievance.

Ever tried hauling a horse over one.

I thought horses could jump over gates.

Yes – but what about ehorses?

So, a genuine question. Considering that some ebikes are expensive and comparativly heavy why are the manufacturers still persisting with derailers? Current gear systems would seem to be fragile, quite crude and prone to wear when used with a motor. I would like to see some sort of gear box for the more expensive ebikes

E-horses aren’t proper horses though. They take all the fun out of that horse dancing sport because they have preset moves. The rider just presses a button, like the demo mode on a keyboard. I predict E-horses will replace flesh horses for dancing sports and racing within 10 years. Not for jumping though, they’re shit at that, the fat bastards

Just not so. My bikes eco is + 50% ie barely enough to counter the weight of the bike.

Eh?

Not wanting to intentionally disagree with you teej, as you are an ebike advocate, but +50% on mine (50lb+) is absolutely flying. My eco is set at 15-20% and still gives way more assistance than is needed to counter the weight of the bike – 15% actually feels ‘almost’ like a normal bike, 10-12% would probably be the actual point. But I  guess it depends on the output of your motor

Spesh describe assistance in a different way to most other suppliers; for example, on a Bosch the percentage denotes the additional assist so for 50% if you put in 1w the motor adds 0.5m up to a maximum of 380% in Boost (I think, it’s been a while since I checked what the Bosch motor is capable of). On a Spesh, 50% is half of maximum available assist, so significantly more than the Bosch.

Maybe I am wrong ASTR.  Its the latest top of the range bosch.  I guess each bike manufacturer sets them up differently?

Eco certainly does not fly along and according to the display is plus 50-% but its a clunky graphic display.  Its no quicker than a non ebike uphill

Doomanic has it I think

I put in 100w and the motor adds 50w in eco

So, a genuine question. Considering that some ebikes are expensive and comparativly heavy why are the manufacturers still persisting with derailers? Current gear systems would seem to be fragile, quite crude and prone to wear when used with a motor. I would like to see some sort of gear box for the more expensive ebikes

cost – same as they use poor forks.  also gear range.  You can get tourers with nuvinci hubs.  alfines are not ebike rated IIRC although I am sure they are fine.  Rohloff, kinderney would add £1000.

Motor cycles have gears built in or attached to the engine. They don’t have third party bits by the rear wheel. The more expensive ebikes are over 10k, in the same ball park as a triumph boneville.

E-bikes are the single use vapes of the bicycle world.

I’ve read the news stories about the fires caused by e-bikes causing deaths but I’ve never seen a thing suggesting any cities considering banning e-bikes, which cities are they?

New York was one that I am aware of, though they seem to have (recently) walked back some of the original proposals and, rather than an outright ban, they are instead going to regulate the batteries and chargers instead. 

Some American universities are also banning ebikes (and escooters) due to fire potential in dorm type accommodation.

E-bikes are the single use vapes of the bicycle world.

I said that on page 3! 😂

E-bikes are the single use vapes of the bicycle world.

This needs to go on a t-shirt….. Or bumper    bike stickers. 

Personally I appreciate that the perfect access scenario would be large kissing gates on EVERY gate in the countryside,

Err. I’m getting the impression you don’t actually know what a kissing gate is…

Err. I’m getting the impression you don’t actually know what a kissing gate is…

Um, I thought I did? It’s the large single leaf style gate with a V shaped fenced off bit that you sort of awkwardly shuffle into whilst swinging the gate from one side to the other?

Done bigly enough it means you don’t need to lift a bike up, just wheel it in and out, hence assuming it was the preference for those that can’t lift their bikes.

Ah well. I sit corrected then. I think your use of the word perfect threw me :-)

Personally I appreciate that the perfect access scenario ….

For ” perfect” I think we need gates that fully open so you can cycle through them unimpeded.

But I do concur that hoicking them up on their back wheel through a KG is indeed far better than a stile if you’re with an eeb.

Err. I’m getting the impression you don’t actually know what a kissing gate is…

Err, I know exactly what one is and I use them regularly.

Not sure what a hole in a public toilet door has got to with mountain biking though.

Ah well. I sit corrected then. I think your use of the word perfect threw me

Apologies, you’re correct, perfect would be openable gates throughout but I had corrected for pragmatism, I can accept there may be good reason for vehicle sized gates to be kept locked!

I’m on my second ebb. I was pretty anti ebikes having ridden mtbs for 25 years or so and completed lots of endurance events. Just train more, if you want it easier, is what I thought.

Then I tried one and it was like being 25 again. For me the best bits have been my Mrs, hated the effort of mtb but got an ebb and now we ride together weekly and have had some great mtb holidays. I also caught a light dose of cancer last year, which needed a bit of chemo. I rode every weekend during chemo, which would have been impossible on a regular bike. I can also ride with my mates on ebbs on a Saturday and be good to go again Sunday with the Mrs. I still feel like a cheat occasionally but for me emtbs have opened things up for me and I’m have much more fun

Doomanic has it I think

I put in 100w and the motor adds 50w in eco

Ah ok, that explains it. I get it now 👍

Just how powerful do you think eBikes are?

More powerful than his arguments, clearly…

Who would have thought that the big problem that needed solving in mountain bikes was the need to pedal them?

The next real problem to solve is the need to steer them.

I’m sure Musk is on the case.

My ebike does steer itself.  Into trees, puddles, ditches etc.  Clearly nowt to do with me

May be the way forward is  to build drone bikes which could be  ridden and controlled by an eturbo trainer.

That way ebikers could get assistance  for cycling without actually going outside.

E-bikes are the single use vapes of the bicycle world.

This makes no sense. e-bikes aren’t single use, you don’t chuck them away after a ride, and vaping is the replacement activity of smoking, so in your analogy; push bikes are cigarettes? I mean, it;s snappy I’ll give you that, but its bollocks.