Hope Tech 3 E4 or Sram Code RSC?

amazing when new but always ended up suffering from quite bad fade and lack of power.

Answer bleed them properly

weren’t up to the job of stopping or slowing me down over the fairly extreme terrain and rock rolls around Whistler and Tweed Valley

Strange, as stated above mine lock up with 1 finger, just not as grabby as others, you either like that or don’t its a personal preference thing. Never felt under braked at any of those locations.

I can actually adjust them unlike the hope which had to be the extremes of bite point at all times.

The bite point adjustment on the hope tech lever is amazing, actually works so not sure what your issue was here, assume not bleed properly.

For those having issues with Hope brakes, are you bleeding them properly? They have a good video online on how to do it. For me whenever I have had an issue it has been air trapped behind the piston which you can remove if you follow their bleed procedure properly.

When I first went to Whistler my brakes looked like this and I hit every rock roll I could get my hands on.

I wouldn’t hesitate to ride them now with an E4 no matter how weak people say they are.

For those having issues with Hope brakes, are you bleeding them properly?

Yeah, properly bled, correctly mounted etc etc. I love the hope lever and its adjustability, and they never faded on me despite being used on some seriously long and steep downhills, but they had nowhere near the power of the sram codes or shimano xt 4 pots.

I sold them after 2 years of perseverance for near enough what I paid for them though, so they were good in that respect.

my Hope e4’s couldnt easily lock up either wheel with one finger

that immediately sounds odd, Im no featherweight and im quite lazy when it come to maintenance, including brakes but my E4s can do it easily- either bleed problem or not centred maybe?

that immediately sounds odd, Im no featherweight and im quite lazy when it come to maintenance, including brakes but my E4s can do it easily- either bleed problem or not centred maybe?

nope – none of the above. Dunno what it was, they worked just about ‘adequately’ , ie they stopped the bike (eventually) , but the amount of finger force required to achieve the level of retardation I wanted was off the scale, and only really achievable with 2 fingers . And after reading several threads like this one where the hope fanboys tell me I’m wrong, and trying bleeding/recentering calipers/ lubricating pistons/ changing pads etc etc. I gave up and ditched them and havnt looked back.

Would love to try cultsdave bike and see if they really actually are quite good and I just had a duff set, or whether its just that we have a different definition of “can lock up easily with 1 finger”

I always think i must be a right mincer on the bike as ragging around the tweed etc i never find my Tech3 E4s lacking, or am i guilty about not massivley over thinking it. Never a beat missed.

Probably a daft question, but people are bedding the pads in properly, yeah? Hopefully a very daft question, but if a pad isn’t bedded in then it’ll never be good.

While I totally get that Hope’s are not grabby and do require a bit more power to pull them on the difference is nothing like you describe compared to other brakes I have used. The difference tends to be about personal preference, nothing to do with how powerful they are in comparison with each other.

Every time there is a thread about hope brakes, we get 2 very different schools of thought.

Person type 1. Hope are the best. User error making them crap. I ride gnarr all day and they stop me on a dime…

Person type 2. Im an experienced mtber who rides steep and fast schralp, they lacked power and shimano/sram/trickstuff/magura betterer.

This sounds more like a quality issue. Are some people getting friday afternoon brake sets???

When user experience is polar opposite, what else can you conclude?

This review is exactly how mine felt and nearly made me sell a bike i now love…

https://www.perpetualdisappointment.co.uk/2018-hope-tech-e3-long-term-review/

I’m definitely a person-2 type, and would pick the Code’s every day over the Hopes, having ridden both a substantial amount and with proper bleeding, set-up, pads etc. the codes are without doubt the better brake, especially if you’re looking for power (and control of).

Any brake can cause you to skid with one finger, even cantis, so using that as a marker of power is bobbins.

“Would love to try cultsdave bike and see if they really actually are quite good and I just had a duff set, or whether its just that we have a different definition of “can lock up easily with 1 finger””

I think that’s the key. I grew up riding side-pull and cantilever brakes, play bass guitar and enjoy doing things with barbells, so maybe my idea of “easily” involves a lot more force than someone who drives a laptop for a living?

I always have a shock when I hop on a bike with Shimano brakes (had the same with Maguras too last week) and it tries to buck me over the front when I tickle the brakes. The Hopes stop softly when you squeeze softly and hard when you squeeze hard.

I would argue there is a 3rd type which is where I put myself. Hope brakes have a different feel to many others, they are probably not as powerful feeling and do require a bit more lever pull but you do get more modulation.
If you like that feeling great they are good brakes for you, if you don’t then they are not for you.
The arguement of “they are not powerful enough” doesn’t ring true they are plenty powerful enough, its just you don’t like the feel and thats fine.
I like them never had any issues and if blead properly they work as they should. Others don’t end of thread!

I don’t like this thread, I can’t be seen in public defending Hope after all the grief I’ve given them in the past. Being labelled a Hope Fanboy is a risk I’m not willing to take. I just believe that if they were as bad as the haters make out, then they’d be utterly unusable for any kind of proper riding and mine would have went on eBay years ago.

Yes, they’re underwhelming. Yes, everything else has more stopping power. Yes, they have a following of deluded fanatics who build ugly colour coded bikes and mince around trail centres.

But I’ll be out on mine tonight and I’ll do some massive skids. One finger only, every time.

For what its worth, I only use 2 hope products.
Headset – brilliant fit and forget item.
Brakes – superb if you like the feel.

I have used Hope hubs, they are fine often ended up a bit creaky though.

So I am far from a “Hope Fanboy” their cranks for example seem to be an expensive solution to a non issue, shimano all the way for me on those.

So…

Hope Tech E4 on my Nicolai Helius, Code RSC on my e-bike, Guide RSC on my hardtail.

I like them all. Hope are >4 years old and have done a stack of uplifted holidays – had a factory rebuild after c2 years and they’re well into their second set of discs (I did start getting issues when the brakes were closer to 1mm than the 1.5 they’re meant to be replaced at). Easy to bleed well and minimal tools needed so can do it in a car park with stuff you can buy from any garage. Power and modulation

Guides are very similar to the Hopes in my experience. Good lever feel and modulation. Decent amount of power.

Codes definitely the most powerful but still have loads of modulation. I’d happy riding either.

What I don’t like…

The Hope lever has some brilliant adjustment and keeps it consistent – I really liked that – the RSC levers have adjustment but I’m finding it isn’t consistent…I don’t like a huge amount of lever throw and I can get that exactly after a bleed and fresh pads, but as the pads wear, the lever throw increases. I found with the Hope stuff as the pads wore down, the pistons moved to compensate so the lever throw remained consistent

Same experience on the Guides and to an extent the Codes. The SRAM adjusters are difficult to use (jam up with dust/mud).
I find it really tough to get the rear Guides bled as well as the front – the rear always feels a bit spongier.
Bleeding Guides needs the right tools but is (usually) less messy…

weren’t up to the job of stopping or slowing me down over the fairly extreme terrain and rock rolls around Whistler and Tweed Valley

Tweed Valley local here. And constant brake user. My E4s and V4s have been down 90% of trails in the valley, Verbier, Maderia, Alps etc… no issues. Probably now 8 years.

They need bleeding properly. As does every brake. But a simple top down bleed isn’t sufficient. It need setup properly, and then a wee push from the bottom up to fill the master cylinder and push out air.

Yes, they’re underwhelming. Yes, everything else has more stopping power. Yes, they have a following of deluded fanatics who build ugly colour coded bikes and mince around trail centres.

But I’ll be out on mine tonight and I’ll do some massive skids. One finger only, every time.

+1 My E4s work fine and I will continue using them. They just aren’t as good as my Shimano/Magura hybrids or some older SRAM 4 pots I have. You can dismiss my opinion with derisory comments about my ability to set the brakes up but the fact remains, they aren’t as good at stopping a bike

“the fact remains, they aren’t as good at stopping a bike”

Is that a fact?

The best brake for a rider provides the required force amplification from the lever to the contact patch, the best possible feedback loop to reduce loss of traction and sufficient power dissipation, along with the right ergonomics. And then the reliability and consistency and service life etc.

I don’t think I’ve ever ridden a bike with properly working hydraulic discs that is short of force amplification. The other stuff, that’s much harder to get right.

Did you know that grip strength is one of the most reliable indicators of physical health, especially as people age? I don’t want to sound macho or anything like that, I’m a professional geek, but seriously, do all the Hope moaners have to ask their children or parters or parents to open jars for them?

do all the Hope moaners have to ask their children or parters or parents to open jars for them?

Do all the hope fanboys just bimble along never exceeding 12mph,or going down anything steeper than a canal towpath?

😁😅

Only said in jest,and intended with good humour before anyone gets shouty

Is that a fact?

Yes. You have my word and that’s as good as an old school ‘Jamba fact’ 😀

“ Do all the hope fanboys just bimble along never exceeding 12mph,or going down anything steeper than a canal towpath?”

Absolutely!

But seriously, it doesn’t matter how fast you’re going, the force required for retardation at a given rate is the same (actually it’s a bit less because tyre and air drag increase with speed). The power dissipation goes up with the square of speed but that doesn’t affect how powerful they feel (before brake fade).

On a steeper trail you’re fighting gravity as well as velocity but you’re also more limited by front wheel grip as the rear wheel has less load. And if lots of grip is available then you’re trying to stay the right side of going over the bars.

It just puzzles me – I’m never short of braking force but I want maximum feel so I can stay in control.

And yet again, you come along and give your opinion about a question asked and people tell you how wrong you are. You know it’s just an opinion and one users experience right. God is it any wonder a vast portion of the STW user base doesn’t bother posting and all they do is read, I knew I made a mistake returning to a thread I’d posted in, my general rule of thumb is never look again.

<PLEASE NOTE THIS IS MY OPINION AND YOURS MAY DIFFER>

It just puzzles me

Despite being puzzled you are aware that others have different preferences. In the past week I’ve ridden my Squatch with E4s and Nicolai with Shimano/Magura. I’m fine with either brake but know which I prefer

“ Despite being puzzled you are aware that others have different preferences. In the past week I’ve ridden my Squatch with E4s and Nicolai with Shimano/Magura. I’m fine with either brake but know which I prefer”

Yes, I’m fine with others having different preferences. It’s just when those preferences get stated as definitive facts about braking force or power, that’s when they’re not terribly useful.

It’s just when those preferences get stated as definitive facts about braking force or power

But that’s why I prefer them 😉

I’m really not sure about the testing method and thus the usefulness of the results from Enduro Mag. According to them the E4 is more powerful than the V4! That doesn’t make sense for three reasons:

Good spot, I hadn’t been looking at Hope options in detail. They do have a paragraph with partial detail of the method (multiple repetitions) and equipment used. Perhaps standardising the pads would have been interesting too.

Of the V4 “In the lab the numbers were very similar to the E4 and on the trail, the power is delivered in a similar way with only the final pull showing the bigger muscles of the V4”. It’s a shame they went scientific on this but overlooked/omitted to dig into the contradictions between the data, their observations, and product engineering/positioning – might have revealed an issue.

Looking at others:
Magura MT5 has better numbers alone than as the front half of MT Trail, probably because the former comes with what looks like a two-finger lever.
Code RSC does better than the R in the 45-0km/h fade test, despite it being the same caliper.
Guide Ultimate has pretty much the same numbers as the Code R.
Guide Ultimate has more torque than both Codes, and same timings as Code R.

The best brake for a rider provides the required force

This is why I love my Hope V4s and E4s. I’m a mediocre rider. I brake a lot more than I should on steep, rooty and offcamber stuff. The Hope’s don’t slam on, they just help slow the bike. For me that’s the difference between being in a ditch and being on the bike.

I’m sure if I was a top rider I’d not like the Hopes, as they don’t just go on and off. But I’m not.

Better is subjective. Different strokes for different folks, innit.

To throw a spanner in the works…. I’ve ruled out the Hopes, but now looking at Formula Cura 4 and Magura MT7. Can’t find a UK dealer for the Formula, but a friend who owns a bike shop deals with Magura so swaying towards them or the SRAM now. Anyone use the MT7s that can offer an opinion…. other than being a bitch to bleed?

Anyone use the MT7s that can offer an opinion…. other than being a bitch to bleed?

not got the mt7’s, but I do have the MT5’s on another bike. They’re good, powerful brakes. the levers seem to put a few people off but I find them good.

I’d rate them in this order (i have all these brakes)

– sram code rsc
– Magura Mt5
– Shimano XT 4 pot
– Hope e4

Good choice about binning off the hope(less) brakes. Magura are superb. If/when the levers snap or leak replace them with Shimano xt or similar.

Can’t find a UK dealer for the Formula

Isn’t it Mojo, as in Geometron?

Isn’t it Mojo, as in Geometron?

Distrubutor yeah, but they are not up and running on their website for Formula yet and there are no UK shops listed as dealers.