Honey trap panic. What to do

Firstly apologies, I am a long standing STW member from the real early days but this is all a bit personal.

My brother is in a potential honey trap!

I guess I am after some advice on what on earth I should be doing, if anything and who best to turn to

So the scenario :

My elder brother is 75, early stages of dementia. He is divorced, separated from last partner at Christmas, since met a new lady in March to whom he is now engaged to marry in October and also buy a house. He has a son with needs who would ordinarily be his sole beneficiary.</p>

I have PofA if and when needed, but worried about confronting him too strongly as that might alienate him completely. His dementia definitely affects his memory and I’d argue his judgement but that is my view.</p>
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I have not yet met the lady in question as this is all very fresh news.</p>
What the heck to do?

Ahhh, will try and edit the formatting

Ahhh, will try and edit the formatting

I think it’s meant to be like that, accentuates the adverts apparently….

Pay for some professional advice?

Talk to him.

What Dicky Boy said. Good that you have LPoA  but when I was looking into this for my dad a social worker told me that loss of capacity can be difficult to prove. Just a thought, have you met said woman yet?

I’d suggest talking to your bother about it and meeting the new lady.

Or is that just under thinking things?

Have you talked to his son? What does the son think?

Talk with your brother. Consider asking him if you and he can talk with his psychiatrist regarding capacity.

Could be true love?!

Not met her yet and his son has only met her once.

I am talking but skirting around the subject of honey traps.

To quote him ‘I have never been so sure of myself in my life’. Other worrying thing, on her advice he has given up all meds including statins for high cholesterol.

Nuclear option is to challenge the marriage at the ceremony (sound mind etc. The Graduate style)…

Tricky one. Similar thing happened to my step-father’s father; the family ended up losing the family home to pay her off and a lot of expensive family heirlooms disappeared before things got settled. Poor chap was very lonely after his wife died and the new, much younger girl/woman apparently filled that gap.

If you think that he can make a rational decision about this, talking may help you both undertand your positions, but it is possible he may not want to hear this or accept that it could be a scam. I’d say you have to prepare yourself for a court battle and the potential loss of income for the son.

I am talking but skirting around the subject of honey traps.

No one in love can ever see what they’re in one, it makes you blind to everything.

And almost impossible to persuade someone that is what is happening….

The most likely short term outcome is he just refuses to talk to you, until it all collapses around him…

Wouldn’t this count as fraud? Contact the police. This may not be her first rodeo.

I have PofA if and when needed, but worried about confronting him too strongl

It’s important to have a grasp of what power of attorney is and what it really means in a situation like this. It doesnt give you control over someones affairs – its to enable people to do what they want to do  – even if what they want is a bad idea.

It does make this a very difficult situation bacause you have a tool that you might be compelled to use against what seems to be better interests.

It’s a bizarre suggestion to make in a sense – to listen to a comedy show but…… I was listening to Alfie Moore’s radio programme ‘Its a fair cop’ recently and it  touches in this – in the guise of standup comedy but it takes the audience through a real life scenario in a series of multiple choices and at each choice you encounter he expands on the legal and moral implications of each decision. ‘Vulnerable Adult’ deals with an older man and new lover, his concerned relatives and the concept of ‘cuckooing’ and what rights anyone around (whether its family, the authorities or the law) has if they want to intervene in what appear to be badly made choices.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001d54m

Could it be the case that he has met someone who he loves and who loves him back?

franksinatra
Full Member
Could it be the case that he has met someone who he loves and who loves him back?

Could be but this would certainly set off alarm bells for me

on her advice he has given up all meds including statins for high cholesterol.

Can he be persuaded to put his main assets in the name of a trust or his son or something – so that he can be assured his son will always be provided for (rather than saying “so your ratbag girlfriend doesn’t steal it all”)?

Other worrying thing, on her advice he has given up all meds including statins for high cholesterol.

Crikey.

Could it be the case that he has met someone who he loves and who loves him back?

I’m guessing the OP is thinking more about the son with additional needs rather than his brother. His son will more than likely need every penny he can get with his father passes.

OP – Is there a will and if so do you know you wrote it. And could you find out if it was amended?

Also – if he is medically diagnosed with Dementia would he be allowed to change his will, and would a solicitor deal with him in relation to a house purchase?

My elder brother is 75, early stages of dementia. He is divorced, separated from last partner at Christmas, since met a new lady in March to whom he is now engaged to marry in October and also buy a house.

The advice I give to anyone facing dementia (whether diagnosed or caring for someone who is) is ‘the time is now’ the best time to do anything you want to do is right now. In time the only space you’ll inhabit is ‘now’ with no sense of past or future. So in one sense this might be a decision made with absolute clarity. It would be a remarkable one if both parties are entering into it in good faith.

If you have POA you should be able to control his finances to stop him being fleeced.  YOu need to know if there is an existing will – he may not be competent to change it now.

would he be allowed to change his will,

My understanding is if he marries, that automatically nullifies a pre-existing will…

NB Could be wrong about that.

Other worrying thing, on her advice he has given up all meds including statins for high cholesterol.

That is a worry. It could very well be a safeguarding issue for his GP.

My understanding is if he marries, that automatically nullifies a pre-existing will…

NB Could be wrong about that.

Not aware of that in England. Might be more likely to be challenged by the new wife, of course.

A diagnosis of dementia and a lack of competence are not the same thing. For a lot of that journey dementia is nothing more than something that makes day to day living a bit more difficult. With a diagnosis of dementia my mum lived independently – with a few coping strategies and a bit of help – for years.

If you have POA you should be able to control his finances

POA does not give you ‘control’ in that sense at this moment.

Given that this could become a very sour situation make sure you really understand what POA is and keep good records when you use it in case the wife-to-be or anyone else challenges your actions. POA is  not the same as Deputyship.

Thx all,

As someone above said my main concern is for the future provision of his son.

Yes there is a current will and I have suggested already that both he and her update them as they both have children and my understanding is that it needs updating post marriage.

PoA. My understanding is also that this is of no use at this time as he is perfectly capable of decision making.

I would mention to the new fiance (when you meet her) that you have PoA and see how she reacts.

My understanding is if he marries, that automatically nullifies a pre-existing will…

AIUI, the law changed last year. Yes, marriage nullifies any existing will. BUT she’s entitled to shit beyond getting back what she arrived with.

Wouldn’t this count as fraud?

What?

tjagain
Full Member
If you have POA you should be able to control his finances

Said above but worth reiterating that POA does not infer guardianship, you are there to deliver their wishes when they can’t act, not to stop them making daft decisions when they can!

AIUI, the law changed last year. Yes, marriage nullifies any existing will. BUT she’s entitled to shit beyond getting back what she arrived with.

I thought with married couples, the surviving partner automatically inherited it all.

Again, not 100% sure.

Meet the lady, with your brother and spend time with her. See how you feel about things then. Until that point I think it’s normal to be concerned,  I certainly would be.

The few times in my life I have been absolutely certain of things have been a shock when it turned out I was wrong about them!!

The medication thing I would be rightly worried about, that seems a very strange thing to do and certainly not in your brother’s interests, imo.

It seems alarmist I know, but listening to programs like you and yours brings up many examples of folk being manipulated for financial gain. It happens. In fact there has been a long running thread on UK rivers about a particular individual who has spent many years preying on numerous victims and done serious time for their offences. They are back at it again and with a female accomplice.

If you continue to have concerns then I would certainly speak to the police. The UK rivers thread has had police involvement as the individual was known to them. In my own experience a close friend became heavily involved with a new partner and on the face of it seemed fine. However the power of Google revealed an extremely distressing past (the worst imaginable).

Good luck and hope it all works out happily

Thanks all.

@kormoran ‘UK rivers’!

You’ll have to help me there. I’m struggling to get past the obvious

UKRiversguidebook, it’s a kayaking forum. A bit like this one but devoid of humour 😀 The individuals in question were involved in water sports at one point, hence the connection

No kink shaming.

AIUI, the law changed last year. Yes, marriage nullifies any existing will. BUT she’s entitled to shit beyond getting back what she arrived with.

Whoooooaaa

Methinks you are mixing up death and divorce here @cougar ?

Wouldn’t this count as fraud?

What?

forgive me if I’m wrong, and this seems worth clearing up, for me at least. My understanding of the OPs usage of “honeytrap” is that there is a woman who is marrying his brother for the sole purpose of gaining access to the money in his estate. I could be miles off. That would be fraud.

forgive me if I’m wrong, and this seems worth clearing up, for me at least. My understanding of the OPs usage of “honeytrap” is that there is a woman who is marrying his brother for the sole purpose of gaining access to the money in his estate. I could be miles off. That would be fraud.

it would only be fraud if you were lying about who you are to gain that kind of access. There might be something exploitative going on (there also might not) but it would only be fraud if there was a element of deception.

nothing the op has said indicates this new woman is some young harlot. His brother is an older devorcee. She might be too. While the speed things are happening in terms of marriage and house buying seem a bit startling they may also be quite clear minded sensible actions by people who feel freed from unhappy relationships or loneliness and frankly also feel a bit mortal and don’t see the sense in biding their time.

if the op’s brother is loaded and has a dodgy ticker you can see how some young strumpet might seek to marry for his money just before he clocks out. Marrying someone with a diagnosis of a long term degenerative condition facing years of decline, increasing dependency, increasing care costs that will empty his bank and savings in a matter of months before having to sell his home to meet the costs and that money running out pretty rapidly too- that’s not such an obvious MO.

Marriage has always invalidated wills AIUI, both in Scotland and England.

There was a somewhat similar case locally recently, I think the woman in question was scared off by concerned friends etc. Not that I was involved, I just heard 2nd hand.

The OP is right to be concerned. You’d be doing everyone a favour by poking your nose in and making a nuisance however possible, but I can’t advise as to what strategy would work best.

As for fraud, that’s probably not realistic. People have always married for mixed reasons including financial security, and people are entitled to make stupid decisions regarding their money and their relationships, as I’m sure we all see regularly in our friends and relations (and perhaps even ourselves, at least with hindsight). Unless they have truly lost mental capacity which as others have mentioned will probably be hard to prove.

No kink shami<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>ng</span>

Credit where it’s due 👈

OP if you suspect financial abuse, get social services involved.