Home Forums Bike Forum Hey, you! Yes, you! – "Get Britain Cycling" e-petition.

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  • Hey, you! Yes, you! – "Get Britain Cycling" e-petition.
  • Cougar
    Full Member

    Having recently examined a little paper circle purchased from the Post Office whilst changing one, they are called Tax Discs- true fact!

    Oh yeah. It’s no wonder people are confused when the text on the discs themselves is worded incorrectly.

    D0NK
    Full Member

    camo16 – Member
    Something learned today then.

    you cheeky wee scamp.

    done

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Having recently examined a little paper circle purchased from the Post Office whilst changing one, they are called Tax Discs- true fact!

    Yep – “tax disc” is a perfectly reasonable name. Note that it doesn’t say “ROAD tax disc” though does it?

    The Post Office website refers to it as “vehicle tax”:
    http://www.postoffice.co.uk/vehicle-tax

    And the gov.uk website calls it “vehicle tax” or “car tax”:
    https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/car-tax-discs

    It is a tax imposed on the particular vehicle, not a tax on general road use.
    That’s an important distinction that sadly very few people seem to understand.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Cougar – Moderator

    Seems pedantic, but it’s worth knowing if you’re riding on the roads.

    It really isn’t. it’s one of those sad cases where people will use a falsehood against you, but there’s no possibility at all of correcting or convincing them otherwise. Meanwhile if you respond with the actual facts, you end up looking like a knob.

    Signed up though because this has nowt to do with the petition.

    And in the end? It doesn’t really matter at all. So you end up engaging a nonsense argument due to its inaccuracy, rather than dismissing it because it’s nonsense.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    It’s like a 40-a-day smoker complaining that non-smokers don’t pay “NHS tax” so they shouldn’t be allowed in hospitals.

    Wozza
    Free Member

    Done

    bex
    Free Member

    Done and shared

    user-removed
    Free Member

    Done. There’s no excuse for this thread not to turn into a 17 page behemoth.

    jamiep
    Free Member

    17. The government should set national targets to increase cycle use from less than 2% of journeys in 2011, to 10% of all journeys in 2025, and 25% by 2050

    Working for Scottish Government on setting and monitoring (NHS) targets, I know that targets aren’t typically set unless they are measureable, which I am not sure this is

    camo16
    Free Member

    a 17 page behemoth

    I tried to sign the petition, but some cocky **** in an Audi overtook me and I’m still stuck in the queue. 👿 😀

    miketually
    Free Member

    Signed, shared and tweeted.

    It is possible to build reasonable infrastructure in the UK. Darlington got about a fiver per head for 8 years or so and ended up with some reasonable bike routes; it’s just a shame they wasted a fortune on individual travel planning and promotion before building the routes.

    But, for example, my mid-50s mum who hadn’t ridden a bike for years will now ride the two miles to the town centre to meet her friends for coffee rather than driving, because there are off-road tracks she can ride alongside the main roads.

    miketually
    Free Member

    Working for Scottish Government on setting and monitoring (NHS) targets, I know that targets aren’t typically set unless they are measureable, which I am not sure this is

    They’re measurable. How do you think we know the current numbers?

    Darlington has a network of automatic bike counters. I pass at least on on my journey to/from work each day. They also carry out counts on one day per month on a ring around the town centre. They do door-to-door surveys and have also used questionnaires and travel diaries of samples of the population.

    Between them, these will show whether a change is occurring.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Over 7,000 signature already and apparently gaining 1,480 per hour. 😀

    Long way to go to get to the magic 100,000 though so please share/tweet/post/email and generally get people involved.

    Great to see all the major names getting behind it too:

    See tweets, facebook posts, emails and articles from CTC, Sustrans, British Cycling, road.cc, Cycling Weekly, The Times, Guardian Bike Blog, Chris Boardman, Carlton Reid…

    Not Singletrack though…? 🙁

    camo16
    Free Member

    the magic 100,000

    … which guarantees that the petition…

    will be considered for debate by the Backbench Business Committee

    Seriously, is that something worth aiming for?

    marsdenman
    Free Member

    Done.

    Trekster
    Full Member
    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Seriously, is that something worth aiming for?

    Yes. As unglamourous as it sounds. If you want to play politics then you have to expect bureaucracy – it is pretty much the lifeblood of the entire political system.

    camo16
    Free Member

    GrahamS – I hope so, but the cynic in me can’t help thinking that the BB Committee ‘debates’ all petitions that exceed 100,000 signatures just so the UK Govt can defend non-action on the relevant issues by stating these issues were appropriately considered and dealt with…

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    TBH the cynic in me thinks some of it is a bit wishful, the £10 per head rising to £25 ain’t going to happen not under the current lot… certain wings of Press will go batshitcrazy if you took “£630M away from Road Maintenance to Paint lines on pavements for bicycles” as they will no doubt describe it…

    I the Tories will probably go for the easiest options:

    They’ll appoint a figurehead “National Cycling Champion” some visible public figure, probably connected to cycling but with no formal Qualifications/experience in planning, infrastructure or road safety (Sir Chris is at a loose end now), makes for good headlines… means little.

    They’ll undershoot the recommended investment of £10 per person per year, and allocate something like £6.3M over 3 years (£0.33 per head, per year) that can be quietly dropped from the budget by 2015.

    The “cross-departmental Cycling Action Plan / annual progress report” will just be some Statistical round up and massaging excercise to chuck a junior civil servant at for a couple of weeks each year…

    “Promote cycling as a safe and normal activity for people of all ages and backgrounds.” a nice cheap poster and leaflet campaign in GP’s/Dentist’s waiting rooms, won’t run for long once they feel they’ve met the basic recommendation…

    But I think the authors are probably conscious of the Governments propensity for undershooting the mark on things like this…

    The benefits of adopting this reports recommendations for the UK can’t really be overstated though IMO:

    -Relieving pressure on roads and congestion
    -A proportionally healthier population relieving pressure on the NHS
    -New business oportunities opened up in a growing UK cycle industry
    -Road and transport infrastucture projects generating more employment
    -Reductions in transport emissions…

    Clearly the DM are still busy working themselves up into a froth over this one, a quick google news search turned up pieces from the Guardian, Independant and the Times but nowt from our favorite National press, anti-cycling advocates… Seems odd.

    I found this an interesting take

    mikey74
    Free Member

    Do you think the roads will need more, or less, maintenance if we reduce the number of cars using them?

    I think they will need about the same. I strongly doubt that the numbers that transfer over to bikes will make much of an impact on the roads. Plus you will always have HGV vehicles using them.

    I’m all for the proposals, I’m just dubious as to where the money will come from. Something may happen, but as usual it will probably be half-arsed.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    can’t help thinking that the BB Committee ‘debates’ all petitions that exceed 100,000 signatures just so the UK Govt can defend non-action on the relevant issues by stating these issues were appropriately considered and dealt with…

    If you look an the BB Committee website you can see what they have considered and when the approved petitions have been scheduled for debate in parliament.

    I’m just dubious as to where the money will come from

    In terms of government spending on transport it is a drop in the ocean. (e.g. CrossRail 2 = £12 billion, High Speed rail 2 = 32.7 billion)

    ads678
    Full Member

    Done.

    matt_bl
    Free Member

    Done

    nc21
    Full Member

    Signed

    dawson
    Full Member

    Done

    MrSynthpop
    Free Member

    Signed and shared

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    I’m all for the proposals, I’m just dubious as to where the money will come from. Something may happen, but as usual it will probably be half-arsed.

    The thing with most big projects or ambitious sounding ones is that few Governments consider much beyond their term in power unless it’s a super-project (a vanity thing if you like) along the lines of CrossRail or HS2.

    It’s easy just to swan along doing the same old same old but this does give some nice, easily quantifiable objectives and with the co-ordination provided by a “Cycling Czar”, it could just happen. I read something the other day that reckoned 15 years was needed to change attitudes (eg getting drink-driving to the point where it is now considered unacceptable and where people feel OK going to a pub and not drinking). It’ll take the same to get mobile phone use to the same point.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    This could be a vanity/legacy thing too though – it has certainly worked for Boris and his Boris Bikes (despite them actually being Red Ken’s Bikes).

    smett72
    Full Member

    Done

    imnotamused
    Free Member

    Could this be a site set up by a scammer to capture the names and full addresses of anyone who’s interested in cycling and therefore likely to have a bike to steal? 9,000 addresses and counting…

    Just a thought. Hope you didn’t put your home address in…

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    😯 By jove, I think you may have a point.
    It’s that pesky government trying to find out all our addresses. I bet they add them to some big database.

    imnotamused
    Free Member

    Looking into the site a bit further it looks fairly genuine but it does make you wonder how many people just fired their home details into a random site without validating its authenticity

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    I can only assumed you’ve only just been allowed on the internet?

    direct.gov.uk is hardly a “random site” given that it has been around for years and is the same one used by millions of folk for these ePetitions.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    😯

    You think the government epetition site is possibly a scam?

    Wow!

    Hope you didn’t put your home address in…

    I hope your did, or your signature may be discounted.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    Looking into the site a bit further it looks fairly genuine

    Yeah fairly – I think the thing that probably gives it away is that it is part of the .gov.uk website[/url] which is the main portal for all UK Government internet resources.

    That and any google search will provide plenty of links to it from reliable news organisations discussing its commission, its launch in 2011 and the many epetition campaigns that have followed from it.

    Basically: don’t worry. It is legit.

    imnotamused
    Free Member

    You think the government epetition site is possibly a scam?

    Wow!

    You have so much spare time to fill out so many epetitions that you were already fully confident in that site’s authenticity?

    Wow!

    camo16
    Free Member

    You have so much spare time to fill out so many epetitions that you were already fully confident in that site’s authenticity?

    It’s been around for ages.

    samuri
    Free Member

    Done although I’m now worried that the government will come round and nick my bikes. I’ve just realised they’ve also got the address of where I keeps my cars and my house. They’ll probably nick those too since they’re worth more than my bikes.

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    You have so much spare time to fill out so many epetitions that you were already fully confident in that site’s authenticity?

    Err… no.

    I just know what the HM Government website is.

    It’s not exactly a secret. It is where I go for to pay my taxes (e.g. car tax, self-assessment), use services (e.g. passports), to get pretty much any government information I require (e.g. employment laws, benefits, highway code, etc) and yes, to sign petitions.

    You are basically saying “Well yes it’s a black door with a 10 on it, and it’s in Downing Street. But I’m not sending them a letter – there could be anyone living there.”

    😆

    GrahamS
    Full Member

    If it makes you feel better here is the twitter stream of the All Party Cycling Group that conducted the inquiry:

    Notice the large number of tweets from the MPs involved, discussing the epetition and linking directly to it?

    Pleased to see that they said they were hoping to hit 10,000 signatures by 4pm and they are already well over that. 😀

    Reminds me of the Edi Bikes slogan:

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