Fiat Panda 4x4 Twin Air - outdoors adventure car?

Does it need to be 4x4 or do you just think you need one, 4x4 seriously reduces your choice of a lot of vehicles

Have a test drive before you think on it any further. We really wanted one a few years back, drove it, and hated it.

Yeti 4x4 would be a better option if you really feel you want a small 4x4

Those TwinAir motors are remarkably powerful and torquey for their size, but really use the fuel if used to the maximum- the real world mpg figures are way lower than the official stats.

Yeti is a more practical choice. Van like interior with fully removable rear seats. Just watch for corrosion on rear doors and check that haldex 4wd is working. Although it’s usually a relatively easy fix.

Ours is great, had a twin air non 4x4 for about 8 months but had issues with it, dealer replaced with a diesel 4x4. Nice enough to drive (twin air was a bit more fun if that's your thing, not sure I'd take it over the diesel off road though) great for parking and generally around town etc.

I've had me, 4 days camping and ride kit plus a xlarge 29er full suss in it but don't think I'd manage a modern geo one in xl in there mind. Wouldn't have got a second body in.

We've had two adults and holiday luggage in there easily enough too.

Will it suit what you want? They are teeny tiny, so I'd go so far as to say if it's just you, yeah, you plus anyone else, maybe not. That all being said, if you're thinking of a roof rack as more than a once in a blue moon thing, get a bigger car, ditch the rack and save the tears at the <30mpg from your tiny car.

Twinair has a reputation for extracting large amounts of power out of small displacement by ramming big quantities of air in and mixing it with a lot of petrol. Even in 2wd guise they are 35mpg thirsty.

You'll not drive it offroad. Get a 100hp, at least you'll have a pile of legal fun driving to wherever you're going.

Yeti is a grown up Panda. Our was great, but you could see it starting to fall apart as soon as it got out of warranty.

In true STW style - recommend what you own!
Peugeot Partner Escapade, basically a Berlingo but with raised suspension, a big engine baseplate and light guards.
Bulletproof engine, galvanized body, easy too work on.

Had three people and bikes+gear, and me/dog/camping gear etc.

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I sold my 2013 4x4 last year. It was great for us because we live in the Alps and we would often be on gravel or snowy roads going up the mountains.

We only sold it because it was not quite big enough for our toddler. Fuel consumption was never good even if I drove sensibly. The power was decent for overtaking although other people always tried to overtake us in silly places because they wanted to get past the "slow" panda.

My father just bought a 2016 Panda multijet in beige.

A few times a week he will use it for journeys under 5 miles such as shopping, the community garden club, visit my sister.
It's only really him and maybe a grandchild or two. For that, it's a great little car and suits the pensioner who owns it....

However, my brother in law took it out on motorway around Manchester last week. He said it's woefully slow and feels like a car from the '80s in that it wanders a bit, struggles with hills and has a high noise level...

If you want a suitably rugged-looking 4x4, there’s the facelifted Suzuki Jimny - they were only imported in limited numbers, so prices were a bit silly for a while. I really wanted one but ended up with a 4x4 Vitara as that was all I could find for reasonable money a couple of years ago.

Sounds like it would look great on Instagram

Not a bad choice though and a cheaper thing to try out than a T6. We've got a previous shape Panda and they are a good shape for filling. Think the ones you are after may have a 2wd with 4wd looks option too. The 4x4 is pretty capable though.

Our 100hp isn't as bad as I thought it would on long journeys, but the Vito is still more pleasant.

If we rarely did long trips, I'd happily replace the van with a 4x4 Panda with racks.

If it matters to you (it did to me), check the NCAP rating - Pandas have 0 stars. I preferred (and prefer!) the look of the Panda but got a Yeti instead on the basis of the above and it was great.

I do love a good Panda and the Cross 4x4 version looks cool but I can't bring myself to buy another one. They're tiny inside with almost no boot so bikes have to go outside. It didn't help that when we had a 100HP my bike was a Geometron. The one time I fitted the bike in the car I had to remove the shock, dropper and rear mech. Roof bars with bikes on demolished the fuel economy.

My father just bought a 2016 Panda multijet in beige.

Those mulitjet ones are painfully, teeth grindingly slow. They're awful on the motorway.

The twin-air is fine and makes a cool noise but as mentioned above, they really like a drink.

This is a good channel to check out if you think you want a rugged little car for fun days out...www.youtube.com/c/UKPanda4x4

If I wanted a toy for sliding around in the mud I'd buy an old Jimny.

Current family car is a Yeti Monte Carlo with 170bhp. It's a much nicer place to be. Still quite small in the back but fully removable seats are great.

If it matters to you (it did to me), check the NCAP rating – Pandas have 0 stars. I preferred (and prefer!) the look of the Panda but got a Yeti instead on the basis of the above and it was great.

As I understand it, some of that is the lack of electronic-majiggery safety features - not the structural bodywork.

Just sold ours after 8 years and loved it. Fuel consumption is horrendous as everyone says

We had the previous, smaller model and it was amazing how much you could get in if you packed carefully - the two of us could go camping for a fortnight in France (4 person tent, gazebo, tables, chairs, cookers, duvets, mattresses, electrics, body boards, two bikes on the rack on the back and all the cycling kit, books, radio, etc etc etc) and squeeze itcall in. Multijet turbo diesel chugged along fine.

As I understand it, some of that is the lack of electronic-majiggery safety features – not the structural bodywork.

Some, yes. But also poor protection for occupants, particularly children.

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Though all this thread really does is remind me how epic they look!

Though all this thread really does is remind me how epic they look!

Agreed.

@Sharkattack if you've been brought up around small fiats (126/127/Panda 2/Uno/Cinquecentos/Panda 4/Panda 5/500s) you learn how to pack them. A panda is basically a 500 with better packaging. Here's my old abarth with a large alpine 160, a medium orbea rallon, all our wheels and four bloke's worth of kit for a week in the alps on board. No roof box or racks, no driving with the seats shoved forward to get extra space. The other car in the road trip was an Elise which took two bikes.
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I thought about one last time I changed my car and on the test drive found it very sluggish past 45 or so, not good on a motorway or fast A road then! I thought no they suit a certain usage type much more than most cars, for pottering around in the countryside they'd be ideal. For long distance adventures or regular motorway commutes they'd quickly become an annoyance.

As I understand it, some of that is the lack of electronic-majiggery safety features – not the structural bodywork.

The famous one for this is the Renault Zoe, went from a 4* to zero because they omitted the side airbags from the spec sheet. A modern 0 rated car is probably safer than the original crop of 5* ones from 20 years ago.

@Sharkattack if you’ve been brought up around small fiats (126/127/Panda 2/Uno/Cinquecentos/Panda 4/Panda 5/500s) you learn how to pack them.

I learned how to pack it. They are a perfect boxy shape for filling right up to the roof. We moved house twice with just a 100hp and we took it to the Italian Alps and back twice as well.

I just hate having my bike outside the car and it took so much dismantling to get it in that I wasn't up for it on a regular basis. We survived with roof bars for a couple of years as you can't get a towbar on a 100hp without cutting the rear valance.

This is what I'd get if I wanted another one

I’d go for it. It’s not perfect, but no car is.

All the drawbacks have been listed above for the Panda TwinAir. But if it’s a second, ‘fun’ car, then it’ll be ace.

They are really capable in the snow, I have zoomed up a snowy climb faster than a Disco 4.

They are surprising roomy, and the impact of a top rack will not be massive because the fuel economy is not great to start with. On that note, the tank is quite small, so with the poor economy, long journies mean lots of fuel stops. As it’s not the most relaxing of cabins, you may well be grateful. Oh and they get hot too because of all the glass.

But they are great fun.

I’ve had a Yeti too, and it was comparatively dull, and a much more grown up car. Nowhere near as nippy and fun as a Panda. And not as capable in the snow.

Currently contemplating a Jimny myself - everything in my brain says no. Currently about £25k for a not very good car. I have a Fabia which is a better car in every way. BUT my heart is saying have some fun.

Huh, I thought the Jimny was withdrawn from sale (as a new car) as it failed emission standard not long after release but there appears to be a commercial option for them.

The new Jimny looks awesome but it's very expensive for what it is. If you want it because of how it looks go for it, if you want something for messing around in get the old one because it'll be exactly the same and you won't cry when you get it dirty.

It didn't fail any emissions tests but it pushed the manufacturers average Co2 numbers too high making Suzuki liable for for some new tax thing. So yes, they were massively popular but not on sale for very long.

I believe they'll be available as a 2 seater commercial vehicle. They might be out by now, I'm not exactly keeping an eye on them.

It’s only really him and maybe a grandchild or two.

Assuming the kids are your's then your dad must have bought a convertible version for them to fit!

What do your adventures contain? A motorway journey, or main road journey, then a car park then Ride, camp, kyak? Or does it involve a lot of journeys on unpaved or very steep roads in bad weather? Maybe you live in a corner of Wales or Scotland where this is common? Or you do a lot of continental trips?

I'd leave it as a romantic dream and just get something better in almost every way. (The same can be said for the new Jimny, mediocre to drive, dire on motorways or faster A roads, cramped etc...but hey, they look cool)

I don't know your budget so can't meaningfully suggest anything

This is a nice thread - much better than the wierd car clocking one.

I have thought similar. Saw an ad for one that somebody had put 4x4 tyres on, a roof rack and added Sisely logos. That was cool.

There is also the Panda a Pandino gathering to aim for?

Going with the naysayers, as a thought how about a base spec early Sandero? Debadge it, chunky tyres on painted steel rims, roof rack... could be a thing. They are cars in the same market segment, with the same design ethos.

Back to the Panda. If they are so bad, why are there so many around with 150k on?

If they are so bad, why are there so many around with 150k on?

I'm really not sure they are, having just looked mine up for tyres we've a 1.2 multijet, had it 6 years from new, and it's really not bad at all to dive. Done plenty of Yorkshire to Sussex runs, Wales and Scotland in it, and it's fine and dandy on the motorway. Don't get me wrong, it's not going to please the making progress crew but it pulls well enough from standing or 30 to join traffic. Cruise control would be nice but otherwise its fine for the motorway.

Back to the Panda. If they are so bad, why are there so many around with 150k on?

I don't think that anyone has said anything bad about them. People seem to really like them in spite of some of their obvious shortcomings.

I guess it depends on your usage. We have a panda cross twinair, it's great for what we want. but we live in the country with lakeland passes, narrow and poor quality roads and we almost never go on the motorway. There's also only two of us and we have a van if we need more space. If you are outside of that usage there are definitely better options.

Our panda is bright yellow...

I don’t think that anyone has said anything bad about them. People seem to really like them in spite of some of their obvious shortcomings.

It genuinely makes us smile when you hear the tiny tiny roar when you put your foot down. It also feels like you are going really fast when you aren't. So you get all the fun without the speed or horsepower. It's a bit like a 4x4 go kart.

At work everyone else has big black rangerovers, bmws, audis and we turn up in a bright yellow panda. That also makes me smile.

Fiat used to do really good discounts (25% off new, spec of your choice, etc) for NHS, police, fire, army, civil service etc with very little confirmation, so if you know anyone in those jobs..

Berlingo (as ever) the way to go. Grip control option for 4x4 pretend. Shed loads of room, cruises well, consumption ok. What’s not to like!

Subaru Outback if you want a 4x4 car with enough space inside you don’t have to play Tetris for a weekend away.

It’s big enough I can sleep in the back of it too if I want too.

Huh, I thought the Jimny was withdrawn from sale (as a new car) as it failed emission standard not long after release but there appears to be a commercial option for them.

This is true. I believe the commercial version is now available, all Suzuki did to get around the CO2 emissions thing was take the rear seats out. As the rear seats are fairly restricted, you now get a lot more cargo space with a nice flat floor. Stick some decent grippy tyres on and you’re laughing.

I think the front seats will go all the way back, making a sort of bed, so if conditions turn iffy, then it’s possible to kip in the front with a sleeping bag.

I’d love one, as I almost never carry anyone in the back anyway, although it would be a second car, I won’t get rid of the EcoSport. All I need is the money…

Why 4x4?

The adverts are always showing us 4x4s for the outdoorsy lifestyle, but in the UK most places are accessible via tarmac roads and the off-road trails are mostly only of use for enthusiasts.

I'd go for something with large load carrying capacity tbh as that's the most useful thing to me. I love the Merc because it has a huge boot, it has self leveling suspension so you can hitch your caravan or trailer and stuff the boot with SUPs or whatever and it still drives really well. And it's so good to drive that it's a joy to bomb up to Scotland or wherever and still gets 55mpg. And it's heavy enough to tow a fair bit too.

Going up to Scotland in September, looking forward to the 8hr drive and there'll be two lots of gear and a bike or two, all in the boot, no racks needed. And I'll take some A roads on purpose for the joy of the drive.

The adverts are always showing us 4x4s for the outdoorsy lifestyle, but in the UK most places are accessible via tarmac roads and the off-road trails are mostly only of use for enthusiasts.

Tend to agree with this for the most part although I can think of a few campsites where 4wd would be handy once off the tarmac and gravel. Less for you shed draggers who often have a nice hard standing but FWD and a moderately heavy trailer can be a bit of a traction reducer on steep grassy gradients. Have stayed at a few sites with long grass and steep parking areas that were a bit .

Not enough to change the car for but next time maybe it will be a possibility to consider.

Less for you shed draggers who often have a nice hard standing

Lol, I've been stuck a fair few times! But there's always been a way round it and I still have a 2wd car. Partly because I have to drive it the rest of the year too.

Plenty of 4x4 normal cars around anyway.

Tend to agree with this for the most part although I can think of a few campsites where 4wd would be handy once off the tarmac and gravel.

Number of wheels driven is rarely(if ever infact) the issue.

Usually it's the tires or the nut holding the wheel.

What I've witnessed a number of times when the I've got 4*4 (on my otherwise normal estate car)brigade turn up is that they get a little further before getting stuck all the same.

the boyhood dream of my youth. The Matra Simca Rancho. Amazed to see it hasn't really aged that much. It's like a panda/berlingo/dacia mash up. Cool enough for Prince it would seem

That the picture land rover had on the mood board for the gen 1 discovery im sure

Last time I was one was 10 years ago . It was being used as a bin lorry in Equatorial Guinea

‘Rancho’
They did look good, but iirc the engine was the same as fitted to a chrysler alpine.
Not a great engine, always sounded tappety.

If you want something that looks a bit rufty tufty but will still function like an actual decent car, try an Octavia Scout.

I think one of those would look cool with a slight lift, roof rack, lightbars and whatever.

Number of wheels driven is rarely(if ever infact) the issue.

I think in the specific instance of getting a caravan out of a wet site it probably is, rather than actual off-roading.

I have not yet encountered this problem with the Merc but it may actually be better than the Passat due to extra weight over the rear wheels and the fact I could get the family to sit in the boot to add more

They did a 4-matic version, which would have been good.

‘Rancho’
They did look good, but iirc the engine was the same as fitted to a chrysler alpine.
Not a great engine, always sounded tappety.

Yep when I was a fledgling next door had one and wow it just sounded totally knackered.

The bagheera 3 seater was pretty thou

Skodas Roomster!
If you want a 4wd something like a Dacia Duster or Suzuki Vitara.
Of course they are not "up to modern standards for A roads" :):):)
So bloody what?
A Mini 850 van was big enough to take 4 people with winter climbing and camping kit to the Caringorms from the FoD.
New Jimny is over priced tech load hairdressers car.

The small 4x4 of choice in these parts is probably the Duster or Vitara, plus a smattering of Pandas, Yetis and RAV4s - narrow, singletrack roads with passing places and soft verges means that bigger vehicles with poor clearances are at a disadvantage. Chunkier tyres and bigger clearances help when you’re confronted by some throbber in a Range Rover sporting 20inch rims, low profile tyres and a latent inability to engage reverse for a passing place they’ve just blown through - 2 wheels on the gravel and you’re away. I have a Vitara and the 1.4 turbo engine is surprisingly good with reasonable economy - far better that the heavier, thirstier engine in the Duster. Tyre choice is important - I replaced the road tyres on my Vitara after 3 punctures in 4 months with Avon AX7s and they coped well on the occasional snowy days. I only drive motorways now a few days a year.

Outdoor adventure car of choice in Norway is a Toyota Avensis. OR actuallly just about any estate or SUV car, but you never see these small 4x4's

Just go for it!: