Energy cap price rise

This can be clearly seen as as a plume of steam coming out.

The plume is no indication of whether it’s condensing or not. It’s perfectly normal to have a thick plume when the boiler is running in condensing mode because the exhaust is at a relatively cool temperature.

You can’t remove all the water from the combustion process and arguably an exhaust that isn’t pluming can be an indication that the boiler exhaust is too hot.

I stuck these on the flow / return / hot water pipes by the boiler to set the temperature appropriately. They’re just taped to the pipe with a smidge of thermal compound.

Does anyone have any experience or advice regarding small business energy?

Local pub owner in Bath (Bath Pub co, 3 quality gastro type pubs) said on twitter his combined energy bills for all 3 were £80k usually but he’s been quoted £245k (!!) for his renewal. This will be a business killer surely for many.

I own a pub/hotel there and we’ve been quoted roughly double (so not as bad as him..) but our quote is for a fixed 4 years electric and a fixed 3 years gas.

Any thoughts on whether to bite on the fixed offers?

If you have a condensing combi gas boiler, it is worth considering turning down the flow temperature on the boiler. Condensing boilers only work efficiency if the return temperature is below 45 degrees C, this would normally correspond to a flow temperature around 50-60 degrees.

Typically they are set-up to operate with a flow temperature of 80 degrees and return at 60 degrees. At these temperatures the boiler is not condensing. This can be clearly seen as as a plume of steam coming out. This will knock the efficiency back by around 10-25% when heating. This equates to 6-8% on overall gas bills (including hot water).

This is all spot on, apart from the bit about a plume. My boiler has weather compensation and typically modulates to a flow temperature of 50-55 deg C. Yet a plume is still clearly visible.

This is all spot on, apart from the bit about a plume. My boiler has weather compensation and typically modulates to a flow temperature of 50-55 deg C. Yet a plume is still clearly visible.

Yes, you are right. I should have said that the plume will be more significant. From Worcester Bosch:

Along with heat, when gas or oil is burned within your boiler condensation is also created. This can be seen in the gases which plume out from the boiler, something that is especially noticeable in cold weather. However in addition to this condensate being discharged in the air, condensate also collects inside the boiler and is drained away either inside or outside your home. This is safe and nothing to worry about.

When condensing efficiently, a greeter proportion (but not all) will be condensed as water rather than in the air.

Any thoughts on whether to bite on the fixed offers?

Always remember that you’re dealing with a business that ideally needs to make profit and they will be backed by analysts who want to ensure that this happens.
Generally fixed deals in any industry, whether it’s a mortgage, energy, etc, will be in favour of that business. As a consumer you get certainty, but you might be better with a variable/tracker rate.
It all depends on the power of your crystal ball

It all depends on the power of your crystal ballexit fee

With the right exit fee …it’s just hedging your bets. Unlike mortgages where exit fees can be and often are into the thousands.

I’ve had zero comms from octopus about any increase. although I’m ~£300 in credit, I would normally have pulled that back but decided to leave it there to buffer the rises a bit.

Exactly the same as me.
I thought I’ve have heard from Octopus by now but they’ve been eerily quiet.
I’m sure it’s coming though.

I got my updated pricing from SP this morning, had to have a wee sit down. Annual now north of 5 grand !

I got my updated pricing from SP this morning, had to have a wee sit down. Annual now north of 5 grand !

hyperventilates into paper bag….

I’m expecting the same north of £5k… let’s say SP’s ‘fixed’ tarif offer is double what I’m paying now, and I recon my bill will go up 50%, not double.

4.5k to 6.6k!!

Ha ha, no i was wrong, it’s 6.8k now. Might have to turn the pool down a notch.

I’m logging my use weekly now so I can see the Kwh used in leccy.

The Hot tub is a big consumer – think 1kwh kettle on all the time. I’ve added insulation to the top (kingspan on the lid) and I’ll be dropping the temperature when we aren’t about. we’re also drying washing on an clothes airer using the dehumidifier – the dryer isn’t going on unless desparate.

I thought I’ve have heard from Octopus by now but they’ve been eerily quiet.

They emailed me last week to up my bill by about 20% because we’re using a little bit more than expected – but that must be based on the existing capped rate as it’s still less than £100/month combined.

Yes, you are right. I should have said that the plume will be more significant.

External weather conditions will also impact the visibility of any plume.

Also, only need to highlight that boiler temps should only be turned down on combi boilers, system boilers need higher temps to keep legionella at bay in the hw tank.

I have a relatively old small fridge with a small freezer compartment inside it.
It works.
Freezer box fills with ice over a period of time. Defrosting it is a chore.
I have a spare smart wi-fi plug which I could use to power down the fridge over night when not in use and only power up during the day. Maybe 8 hours on 16 hours off.
I guess this will help with both the icing up of the freezer box and reduce the amount of energy used by the fridge during the night when it is shut.
Will this damage any components of my fridge?
Will it save me any cash? Or will the fridge just work harder during the day to cool the fridge back down?
Maybe I should just adjust the thermostat?
I’m in the process of defrosting the freezer box and I’ve set up the smart plug already.

Will it save me any cash? Or will the fridge just work harder during the day to cool the fridge back down?
Maybe I should just adjust the thermostat?

No
Yes
Yes

Thanks for the reply.
I think I’ll leave the smart plug in for the time being just so I don’t forget to turn the fridge back on later.

We bought a large heavy duty clothes dryer the other day for £20. Changing our patterns this dries a whole load of washing sitting in the dining room in 24hrs, saving an estimated £1.75 vs the tumble drier per wash – 12 uses which is pretty much a week-and-half and we start saving money.

On an environmental basis I wish we’d thought of this sooner.

Will this damage any components of my fridge?

I’d be suprised, fridges / freezers work by cycling the pump on and off every few minutes for years on end. By switching it off for say 8 hours the pump will have a longer on interval come morning and I would expect it’s overall life would be longer as it’s normally the on/off cycling which stress motors etc.

However, I’d expect the internal temp to rise quite a bit as they leak heat quiet a bit – our freezer / fridge motors switch on/off 24/7 contintually – see our smart meter trace:

Neurio Energy By Minute by Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

And yet an unopened freezer keeps food frozen for 48hrs.

Still not got ours yet from British Gas.
Currently on £100 a month for both. Probably don’t even use that much house stays consistently above 19 Celsius even on the coldest of days.
Maybe gets a boost to 25 once a day which takes 20 minutes.
Currently £465 in credit. Gas use in summer is probably about £20 a month.

Had this through today, mine is going up loads. No idea about leccy, it is PAYG

The Hot tub is a big consumer – think 1kwh kettle on all the time. I’ve added insulation to the top (kingspan on the lid) and I’ll be dropping the temperature when we aren’t about. we’re also drying washing on an clothes airer using the dehumidifier – the dryer isn’t going on unless desparate.

You’ve got a sex pond and you’re worried about using a tumble dryer?

Focus should really be on how users minimise their usage and take advantage of any fixed rates – if available and competitive.
Standing charge – you can’t influence it so move on.
Gas usage doesn’t have day/night tariffs so…minimise usage.
Electricity – maximise usage of night tariff, minimise usage of day tariff.
All very easy to say but difficult to do.
My start point is an assumption that high unit prices and standing charges are here to stay so I’ve invested in heavy weight and lined curtains on all windows in addition to existing slatted blinds; improving loft insulation; DEFRA compliant wood burner is next.
I have duvets in different weights so that helps.
If WFH layer up.
After kryters ^^^ don’t use a tumble dryer if possible; if you have a garden, line dry; if not, large capacity airer/ dryer.
Only boil as little water as you need when using kettle.
Does house need to be lit up like Christmas tree 🎄?
If your view is…can’t afford heavy curtains or wood burner, for example, work out payback period based on modest assumptions.
Turn thermostats down by 2C or more; unoccupied rooms on frost setting only.
Cold feet? Thick socks or slippers.
It’s all been said before so I apologise for any/all repetition.

And yet an unopened freezer keeps food frozen for 48hrs.

Sure, but a freezer is minus 20 plus additional energy is required for the phase change.

Free: drive at 70mph instead of 85mph on the motorway.

Cheap(ish): replace all lights with LEDs. Still surprised to see lots of people using halogen downlighters in 2021. Potentially a couple of hundred pounds saved per year for a big house.

Cheap: draught-proofing leaky window frames.

Cheap: heated blankets / throws instead of running central heating.

Cheap: programmable thermostat. The number of people who still believe that it’s cost-effective to leave the heating on all the time and just turn it down a little when they go to bed is astonishing. Traditional thermostats overshoot, and on top of that are usually set too high (22C+).

Average: Extra loft insulation.

I’ve not included solar / heat pumps etc because they’re either completely unaffordable to the people genuinely struggling with energy bills, or will be provided by councils if in council property.

Anyone in a listed building is screwed due to the slightly backwards behaviour of local councils. Likewise a listed building usually has thick stone walls so smart meters don’t work, and economy 7 no longer available.

Don’t forget that if you thought energy was expensive, water prices are equally likely to rocket up due to the additional costs of processing and companies protecting themselves from inflation by… encouraging more inflation.

It never occurred to me how much energy hot tubs burnt. It’s not so much the cost, if you can afford it you can afford it, but the environmental impact of such a big energy use on something so peripheral to everyday life

Anyone heard anything from Edf?

One of the big problems here in terms of efficiency as a nation is such variable incomes and wealth. When some households are choosing beans on bread, rather than toast, to reduce bills… while others are considering turning down their OUTDOOR heating/ hottub/ lighting… the target of reducing overall load on the electricity grid to reduce gas demand looks like nonsense. How about all homes getting a set amount of low or no cost electricity to use, and all usage by a household above that costing much more… enforced by regulation? Perhaps have a series of allowances and bands, as for income tax, to make it progressive? Smart meters could help make this transparent to users.

Just got my energy letter in today, its going up by 54%

So no heating for me the majority of the day, i shall just have to go sit in the council offices, they always have their heating on full blast, even in summer.

It will be interesting to see though what the energy companies post for their net profits at the end of the year. I’m expecting record profits yet again.

decided to look a bit deeper into ours now that its so steep. im one of those who got moved to shell when green went bust, and been reading shell were more expensive than others.

however, when i logged into the moneysavingexpert ‘cheap energy club’ page, it tells me i cant do better. but, theres only 3 results in there (outfox the market and 2 x scottish power tariffs). anyone else having that happen?

if i go to compare the market for a quote, it lists all of the different tariffs from everyone, but still says my shell is about the best i can get.

oh well, at least it means i dont have the faff of switching, im just surprised that shell are showing as the cheapest for me.

The number of people who still believe that it’s cost-effective to leave the heating on all the time and just turn it down a little when they go to bed is astonishing

Neighbour up the road left her heating on whilst she went on a 3wk winter holiday, said she didn’t want to come home to a cold house – her son lives in the same road and offered to turn the heating down/up as required, but wasn’t allowed to 🙄 the planet is doomed, even more so when I see the absolute over indulgence of some of the ultra wealthy.

Gotta say, there’s some eye-watering figures being quoted here. My G&E is going up from ~£2.5k to ~£4k and this is a five-bedroom house. Granted, there’s only two of us living here, but I use plenty of electricity and the washing machine (and in winter, tumble dryer) is constantly on. Sex pool aside, what are you guys doing to be pushing seven grand?

however, when i logged into the moneysavingexpert ‘cheap energy club’ page, it tells me i cant do better. but, theres only 3 results in there (outfox the market and 2 x scottish power tariffs). anyone else having that happen?

I expect this is just another symptom of the same problem. Remember, 20-odd providers have just gone bang so your choice is going to be considerably less. Martin has been advising for a few months now not to switch until the dust has settled because any new tariffs are likely worse than what you currently have.

My G&E is going up from ~£2.5k to ~£4k and this is a five-bedroom house.

Your bill is is eye watering enough, we were on £850pa g&e with Avro in a 4 bed house with 4 adults, 3 of whom work from home, now on £1200pa with octopus and due to go up again I guess, but you’ll still be more than double our bill!

Tell me about it, it’s stupid. I need to do a bit of digging into to what things are actually costing to run.

I need to do a bit of digging into to what things are actually costing to run.

Yes, that’s a huge amount of money. Are you mining bitcoin?

What temperature is your thermostat set at? Our house with no hearing on stays around 16.5 degrees regardless of what is like out
Thermostat is set at 17.5 when the heating is on

Bit stunned by some of the figures on here. Our electric is £80-110 a month,including an electric car on 10k miles a year. Four bed detached with family of 4. Heating we are oil, so consider ourselves lucky, to this point…