Energy cap price rise

It was saying on Radio 4 this morning that Shell is in the process of moving all its corporate headquarters to London as post-Brexit Tax Haven UK will offer them the lowest tax burden in the developed world

At the rate we’re going we wont be part of the developed world much longer

The quote above / Radio 4 commentary is probably untrue.

The corporation tax next year is 25% for profits on UK subsidiaries – in Ireland it’s 12.5%

Most of the driver behind Shell moving to the UK was about removal of dual share classes / listings and a move to the London market where trading volumes are higher.

Shell will likely pay more tax in the Uk than if they had retained a dual Dutch / uk listing.

I’d also disagree that “ we wont be part of the developed world much longer” on the basis that the economy has now returned to pre-covid size.

The Uk is now attracting record inward investment and has a disproportionate share of tech unicorns that will ultimately drive further economic growth. We actually have more tech unicorns than France and Germany combined.

wtf is tech unicorn?

edit, that should be in the business bullshiv thread…

The rates are highest if you’re on a pre-payment meter

At the moment they’re capped at the same rate as everyone else, of course that’s not always the case.

We actually have more tech unicorns than France and Germany combined.

Smashing; Germany has a modern, efficient, invested-in economy and national infrastructure, not to mention a more grown-up and consensual approach to politics and industrial relations, we’ve got unicorns, FPTP and a class (from the left)/culture (from the right) war.

The % rate of Corporation Tax only matters if you pay any.

Smashing; Germany has a modern, efficient, invested-in economy and national infrastructure, not to mention a more grown-up and consensual approach to politics and industrial relations, we’ve got unicorns, FPTP and a class (from the left)/culture (from the right) war.

There was an interesting thread on twitter yesterday about some comparisons between the UK and Germany in how economic investment pays off, and how the UK basically hasn’t done any;

ps. The UK government, after what feels like a decade of chatting about it, cancelled a new underground central railway station in Bradford — a city about the size of Leipzig. "Too expensive" appaz.
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Here's Leipzig's new underground central railway station. Opened in 2013. pic.twitter.com/yfnwunX03F

— Tom Forth (@thomasforth) January 29, 2022

The UK government, after what feels like a decade of chatting about it, cancelled a new underground central railway station in Bradford — a city about the size of Leipzig. “Too expensive” appaz.

Let’s be honest, if the UK government had tried to complete this project, it would be late, 3x over budget and with some critical errors meaning it wasn’t fit for purpose so nobody used it. Might as well cut out the middle man and not bother building it.

It’s when those energy price rises filter into Every. Single.Thing you buy, that’s the thing being overlooked in the news reports

One of my mates created and built up a successful UK tech company. He’s moving to Germany this summer to start a new one. Sitting out the next decade in another European country is a wise option if you have the means and skills to do so. Tax rates are only a tiny part of the business environment. And the domestic/family environment. Nominal low tax rates for business can sit side by side with lots of impediments to running a business, and falling quality of life for business people, their staff, and their families.

Unfortunately for me I chose soup over a Sandwich this lunchtime and therefore have used up this years £40 energy credit already.

If only that was actually something to laugh it.

wtf is tech unicorn?

Privately held business allegedly worth over 1 billion US dollars. Its mostly based on previous funding rounds to calculate and hence may or may not be worth the paper it is written on.

Hope the Government look after those groups.

ROFLOL

Having just said that, looks like I’ll get two council tax rebates of £150 each in April!

Mainly due to the randomness of council tax banding…

With house price rises seen as a good thing (for homeowners) – we are witnessing a recalibration of inflation (supply shocks) in the economy. There always has to be inflation in some part of the economy – it’s been debatably good for the Tory voters that house prices (not part of CPI) have seen the brunt of this to the benefit of the wealth of middle-classes.

Things are swinging in other direction as consumables now take the hit.

This will not go down well with Tory voters one bit. Good.

We could long term see a shift in House Prices not blasting upwards.

Has anyone else spotted that the £200 handout to reduce their bills is actually a govt backed loan that you have to pay back in installments from 2023 onwards? So that’s not a reduction, that’s a deferment that could well be repayable on top of another big increase.

Hope the Government look after those groups.

Doesn’t seem likely. Sunak is no doubt being handicapped by Johnson, can’t have his biggest rival looking too good right now, but it really isn’t going to go that way.

The average family in the UK is going to have to face the following increased annual costs:

£720 NI. (based on 2 people working on average UK income)
£75 Council Tax.
£390 Food.
£300 Vehicle Fuel.
£693 Gas/Electric
£800 increased mortgage payments.

£350 isn’t going to make much of a dent, in that!

Has anyone else spotted that the £200 handout to reduce their bills is actually a govt backed loan that you have to pay back in instalments from 2023 onwards? So that’s not a reduction, that’s a deferment that could well be repayable on top of another big increase.

Yeah, it was supposed to take the form of loans directly to Energy Suppliers, who in return would reduce bills, but I guess either it didn’t sound as good, or they couldn’t them to actually do it.

I think they’re gambling on either the Russian situation improving, or at least some of the non-gas powered power stations in the UK that are currently down, coming back…

Has anyone else spotted that the £200 handout to reduce their bills is actually a govt backed loan that you have to pay back in installments from 2023 onwards?

tbf I watched Sunak’s speech and that was pretty clear.

reluctant – that was pointed out on pg1 as soon as sunak said it.

I’ve only read the reports and it was only the Guardian that made it clear. How many others are not going to realise and think that they’re being given ‘free’ money?

I’d rather not get the rebate, is that an option?

Rachel Reeves has had a strong coffee today and sounds up for this, as it’s an open goal

The “discount” needs to be outed as fake news

I think they’re gambling on either the Russian situation improving, or at least some of the non-gas powered power stations in the UK that are currently down

You’ve got to love the way this lot do ‘policy’

My sister said recently their heating costs went from £90 a month to £198…

Ouch.

It’s quite interesting what people think of as acceptable heating, for me it’s enough to stave off damp and prevent ice on the inside of the windows.

Others accustomed to strolling around in thier Pjs at sub tropical temps are in for a sharp shock.

Has anyone else spotted that the £200 handout to reduce their bills is actually a govt backed loan that you have to pay back in installments from 2023 onwards? So that’s not a reduction, that’s a deferment that could well be repayable on top of another big increase.

Yes, and then I posted on Twitter asking for folk to list the frauds that were possible and what do they estimate the likely write-off will be by 2027.

It’s quite interesting what people think of as acceptable heating, for me it’s enough to stave off damp and prevent ice on the inside of the windows.

Others accustomed to strolling around in their Pjs at sub tropical temps are in for a sharp shock.

My wife considers anything between 22 & 30 degrees indoors to be comfortable :(

So, anyone had a new bill / DD value from their energy supplier yet?

Our £81/month DD hasn’t changed in years, am expecting a letter upping it any day…

Not yet but my suppliers went bump on the same day whilst switching from one to the other, ffs.

So far I’ve had no contact from shell about the gas other than a single email from them back in September/October, haven’t paid them a penny yet either. Electricity was switched to octopus who have been very good, DD setup plenty of contact and awaiting my credit to be transferred over.
I keep a close eye on usage and readings and drop them into a spreadsheet every so often so I know exactly what I’m using and costs so it won’t be a surprise when shell finally sort themselves out.

If last year’s payments were about right then double it and add a bit more for good measure especially if you were locked in on a good tariff.

So, anyone had a new bill / DD value from their energy supplier yet?

yes, our previous supplier (pure planet) went bust in october and we were transferred over to shell, they’ve just got round to giving us a new DD of £277 per month for gas & elec up from £197 per month. The £197 with PP was their SVR.

We have reduced our consumption this winter by about 10% though, so that new dd reflects that reduction in usage I think.

Just waiting on contracts for solar panels and battery to be fitted in June, won’t help the initial price hike but will for the later ones

Octopus make it easy to pull out your previous energy usage so looked at last years.

Current fixed rate ends in July, if we’ll go to capped rates it’s near enough a doubling of energy bills. £140 extra per month.

Think this will be the year I rip up the downstairs floor and insulate it properly. 1930s semi with a suspended floor and it feels cold all winter, suspect loads of heat just goes into the void below.

grahamt1980
Full Member
Just waiting on contracts for solar panels and battery to be fitted in June, won’t help the initial price hike but will for the later ones

Sorry to be uncouth but may I ask how big the install is and roughly what you’re paying?

Fairly big install. 8.3kW panels and a single tesla battery for now.
Works out about £23k. Discussing if to reduce the size and if the battery is worth it.
Not sure on payback times but as we work from home the majority of the time i suspect that it shouldn’t be too long given current electric prices

The current cap for electricity is roughly 21p per kwh and 25p a day standing charge. I still can’t find what the actual price cap will be changed to as all the figures give the increase for an average bill which hardly anyone pays (most will be over or under).

Why would the wholesale price of gas affect the daily standing charge?

So, anyone had a new bill / DD value from their energy supplier yet?

Our £81/month DD hasn’t changed in years, am expecting a letter upping it any day…

Changes don’t come into effect until April.

It’s going to be a difficult job, or at least justifying it for Energy suppliers. Prices go up, but usage falls rapidly. Do they hammer customers in April, in readiness for another massive hike in Oct, or let it sit, hoping for a reduction in wholesale prices in the next 6 months?

I looked back on my last 6 months smart meter reading and we’re using about £120 a month on average through the winter, and paying £140, so we’re paying too much really. Summer we’re down to about £80 a month so I think our monthly should ‘only’ rise to £170 a month. It’s a big number, but we won’t miss £30 a month… it’s the the £90 rise in October I’m worried about.

Fairly big install. 8.3kW panels and a single tesla battery for now.
Works out about £23k. Discussing if to reduce the size and if the battery is worth it.
Not sure on payback times but as we work from home the majority of the time i suspect that it shouldn’t be too long given current electric prices

I’m going to be very surprised if you ever have return on that investment.

Generally you’d want an investment to provide you with a return on a 10 year basis, so in simple terms you’d have to reduce your bills by £2,300 pounds per year

So lets say you’d be expecting a 50% reduction in usage, you’d have to be spending £4,600 a year on electric (£383 per month)

Changes don’t come into effect until April.

Ah forgot about that. I guess they’ll still send out letters early to forewarn people….

So lets say you’d be expecting a 50% reduction in usage

With a big battery you could get close to 100% as you’ll have free leccy 24/7.