Divorcing a problem drinker

TJ’s advice is what I would recommend.

Two big questions – do you want to save the marriage? Is your wife ready to stop drinking?

I dont think she is fully ready to embrace being sober. She is saying things like I don’t drink now, definitely avoiding any future commitment or past ownership.

I am definitely ready to divorce her but my biggest fear is that a 50:50 split leaves the kids in a worse position.

It won’t be a 50:50 split. You will be expected to reach an agreement about when the kids see each parent. By the sounds of it you divorce her and she has to leave the marital home. There may be maintenance issues to sort but they will be worth it. If you remain in the current situation unfortunately things will remain the same or get worse. The kids will become even more damaged and resentful.
I imagine that the kids will remain in their home with you. Then you both will be agree access. Although it could be 50:50 the reality is that because of your wife’s situation she won’t cope with anything like that. The kids will also withdraw from the arrangement of their own volition if they feel unsafe.

Slight flaw in that plan is that I cannot afford to buy out her share of the equity of the house. we would need to sell and split the equity.

Somehow, though, he turned things around once he finally stopped working off-shore. Got into a normal routine (rather than turning up to the pub at opening time), and is now one of the nicest guys you’ll meet.

Just wanted to say how luch I liked this. Bit of good news in amongst the rest.

Excuse me if I’ve missed it in a post somewhere but it doesn’t seem anyone has asked why she drinks so much. There is generally some underlying issue.

I am definitely ready to divorce her

Do you want to? Or do you want to save the marriage?

You can only do it if she wholeheartedly decides to stop and you wholeheartedly support her.

At an admitted 40+ units a week your judgement will have been impaired at times and you are getting towards high functioning alcoholic territory. Be prepared to own that.

Lots of good advice here, the only thing I would add (as others have), is that you need to stop drinking, full stop, for many reasons:

– the children must associate it with bad things (hers, admittedly, but still)
– you need as clear a head as possible, never mind to be as healthy as possible, in order to best manage what’s to come
– if you’ve quit, and she’s not, that can only go in your favour in any custody discussions

Does she admit there’s a problem? Is she willing to seek professional help to correct it? Is she willing to change her life (not just stop drinking, but weekly meetings, healthy living, etc) for the family?

If the answer to any of those is no – there’s no future.

I’m the son of an alcoholic who never admitted that there was was a problem. I tried everything to help, encourage, chastise, bribe him to get better. He never did as he was never willing to admit there was a problem. I spent almost 20 years trying to make a difference. The lesson here is that YOU cannot make a difference – you can help, but THEY need to acknowledge the problem and change. If you can get the former from her, you can help with the latter.

As for the kids – if she wont/cant change – they need to be away from her. Kids of alcoholics often end up becoming what they hate. I consider this every time I have a drink. I’ve been drunk twice in my life.

I’ll also add that, if this was the other way around, and you were the problem drinker, most people would not blink if she changed the locks while you were out, and told you not to come back until you were clean. There’s no reason, really ,why you could not do the same.

I cannot afford to buy out her share of the equity of the house. we would need to sell and split the equity.

The judge will say what happens to the house and, as with everything else, the welfare of the children is the top priority. It’s not uncommon for the judge says that the best thing for the children is that they live in the house, with you, until they, say, go to uni. At that point the house can be sold and the equity split (and split as per the judgement, she won’t necessarily get half).

@willard. Sorry youve had it hard mate, but youve missed my point.

The OP and his kids seperate from her, she ends up living alone further down the rabbit hole and quite likely drinks herself to death.

In which case, thats something that the OP and his kids have to address/face/deal with.
Even if you know full well it wasnt your fault, i cant imagine it not haunting you forever.

I feel it would be better to somehow get her some help at the same time, even if it is ultimatly to protect the kids from having to deal with their mothers (Avoidable? i dont know) death, but i dont have any experience of it myself so wouldnt know what to suggest.

Slight flaw in that plan is that I cannot afford to buy out her share of the equity of the house. we would need to sell and split the equity.

can she get residential help? like getting someone sectioned?

Just on this single point you should get some medical advice. Going cold turkey as an alcoholic can have very dangerous consequences and can even kill. Obviously it depends on the scale of the physical dependence which is why you need advice. Alcohol is the pretty much the only drug you can be addicted to which can kill you if you stop taking it.

https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/addiction-treatment-recovery/alcohol/alcohol-withdrawal-symptoms-timeline

This post seems to have been somewhat ignored but is arguably the most important thing to understand. Particularly when looked at alongside this.

At an admitted 40+ units a week your judgement will have been impaired at times and you are getting towards high functioning alcoholic territory. Be prepared to own that.

Remember that alcohol dependency / alcoholism is an illness and needs to be treated by professionals who understand what they are doing. The op would almost certainly be classified as having alcohol dependence as well

@Olly yes and that must all balanced against the future abuse that will inevitably occur if the drinking does not stop.

Kids come first.
Abused spouse second.
Help as much as you can within that restriction… That help is not mandated to include ‘putting up with the abuse and the drinker continuing to live in the same house.’

Whoever said the underlying issue needs fixing first is right, unless that’s being addressed there will not be any long term improvement, not really.

Remember that alcohol dependency / alcoholism is an illness and needs to be treated by professionals who understand what they are doing. The op would almost certainly be classified as having alcohol dependence as well

Which comes back to the point that OP hasn’t answered so far (not that he needs to say on a public forum) but what is driving her alcoholism and his high drinking

Not sure what is driving her drinking, have been some wider mental health problems with one of my kids, but her heavy drinking pre-dates that. Mine generally corresponds with less commuting time, more drinking time I guess. I rarely get drunk, but like a couple of pints for sure and was probably drinking 20-30 units per week pre-lockdown.

Ex was a barely functioning alcoholic. It’s was horrible looking back but weirdly normal at the time but then I was heading down the same road (3-4 bottles of wine per night, every night) then I stopped as I wasn’t functioning well at all.
She didn’t, I came home one night to find all/every the glass in the house smashed because she forgot I had a parents evening.

If she doesn’t want to change nothing you do will persuade her.
You need to look after you to look after the kids and horrible the behaviour of an alcoholic destroys everything it touches on.

I become hyper vigilant around drunk women and it’s all because of her.

Instead of empty promises from her can you hold her to seeking help? If she doesn’t then you know the answer. If she does then you’ll both need to wipe the slate clean between you.

re. 50/50 split. depends on many things but they’ll prioritise having a roof over the childrens head.

I have some experience of this, as the child of an alcoholic, and agree with most of what has been said. Except this but about finding out what drives the drinking, I can answer that: ALCOHOLISM.

There may be circumstances but these are excuses and rationalisations. Lots of people deal with lots of problems without drinking. Don’t get sucked into the pity!

Best of luck, and make sure the kids know they are loved and safe, you seem to have that under control so well done you, stick in.

So yes, there’s an argument that says you should look out for them, but I tried, I tried everything to help her and I failed.

She’s relying on you to enable her drinking. Put her out the door after getting your legal ducks in a row. Giving up for you or the kids is not sustainable she has to want it for her. Tell her you will be there when she gives up (if that’s what you want). I suspect that she may only be a few months from dying if my experience of my god-children’s mother is typical.

Good luck and do what’s best for the children and you.

djglove, I feel for you dude. I don’t have a lot to add apart from whats already been said. I grew up with an alcoholic father until the age of 12 until my mum finally did the right thing and it was the best thing she ever did our house was so much happier.

If you choose to get your wife help I would really read up on whats going to happen to her by 7-8 I had witnessed my father try and get clean multiple times and its an awful experience for everyone involved. Multiple hospital trips, hallucinations, lack of stable home life its just generally rubbish.

I would say though kids are extremely tough and im sure having you around as a good dad will go an extremely long way i would like to think despite my childhood im a pretty well adjusted person. I just don’t ever drink.

Suggest you contact Al-Anon UK as TJ suggested above – https://www.al-anonuk.org.uk/about-us/ – which will give you some support and advice to help you through this difficult situation from people who deal with similar situations every day.

You mention in your last post that one of your kids has some mental health issues which have occured since your wife’s alcoholism has become a problem – are your child’s issues related to their Mum’s drinking and subsequent behaviour? If so that would be a massive red flag to me.

Will your wife take a first step and talk to a GP or attend an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting or similar? If not, she is not going to acknowledge her problem until some major medical issue happens to her, if at all.

Good luck and best wishes in trying to resolve this horrible situation!

If the kids are 13 it’s possible their say will count for quite a lot when it comes to residence and contact arrangements.

Time to fish out all the financial documents – savings, pensions, payslips, loans, for both of you – and engage a good family solicitor.

It’s a horrible situation, but you can’t change the past, only the future.

If you are finding that amount of booze hidden, especially spirits then she’s drinking far more than 100 units a week imo!

Mate of mine was in exactly the same position as you for years, the kids wanted him to leave, he spoke about divorce, he kept staying because he loved her. This went on for 10 years or more and in that time she lost her job, her friends, her family and eventually her life.

Booze its interesting isnt it. Due to twin mad a box of frogs kids, busy life and work, and exercise/bikes I have pretty much given up drinking, and my wife tbh. Social life has disintegrated. Mates have stopped inviting me out, its getting worse as time goes on.

I do drink when out but not always, just dont love the taste anymore, or feeling like shit the next day.

I guess this is why its hard for some to stop completely as the social life goes pop.

Good luck

Protect your kids. This should be your number one priority.
Personally I’d be questioning my own need to be having any alcohol given your wife’s dependence on it. Just cur it out, it’s easier than you think and will help your kids with trust in you and any possible future custody issues.

My wife was raised by an alcoholic mother and a string of abusive step dad’s. She has been mentally damaged and some of the stories are heart breaking. Kids need stability and an alcoholic parent is the exact opposite of this.
What ever you do, please consider how this will impact your children’s future.

Me, I’d be out of there and take the kids.

At an admitted 40+ units a week your judgement will have been impaired at times and you are getting towards high functioning alcoholic territory. Be prepared to own that.

20 pints a week an alcoholic? Bollox!

It not be healthy but it’s not even close to an alcoholic.

It not be healthy but it’s not even close to an alcoholic.

I think it depends largely on the relationship one has with it, rather than just a purely quantity based calculation.

I think it depends largely on the relationship one has with it, rather than just a purely quantity based calculation.

Can you explain a bit more? What sort of “relationship” would define someone who drinks 20 pints or 20 cans of IPA a week, an alcoholic?

20 pints a week an alcoholic? Bollox!
It not be healthy but it’s not even close to an alcoholic.

I would agree and say 20 points a week is getting close to an alcoholic thats gotta be like 2-3 pints a night or over 50 units a week (my math is awful) which is a lot more than guidance. I bet if you went to a GP they would class you as someone who has some sort of mild drinking problem clinically speaking any way. Alcoholics are not just people who stagger around at 11am holding a can already drunk you could hold down a 9-5 and still be a functioning alcoholic.

Can you explain a bit more? What sort of “relationship” would define someone who drinks 20 pints or 20 cans of IPA a week, an alcoholic?

I think this is far too complicated to answer it could be a million things. Are you drinking to cope with a stressful life?, are you getting black out drunk a few nights a week?, does your drinking impact others around you?, once you start do you feel you can’t stop. The list could be endless. Im not saying any of those things are you btw.

Can you explain a bit more? What sort of “relationship” would define someone who drinks 20 pints or 20 cans of IPA a week, an alcoholic?

This is probably a good place to start to get an idea. I’m sure it’s not perfect but it is part of the alcohol misuse section of the nhs website. For reference, suggested alcohol consumption is no more than 14 units per week. 20 pints a week is 40 – 60 units depending on the drink. In a medical setting that sort of level would certainly be ringing alarm bells.

link here

What sort of “relationship” would define someone who drinks 20 pints or 20 cans of IPA a week, an alcoholic?

If you’re worried that you won’t be able to have your beer, or your worry about the amount of beer you’re drinking, or you’re telling lies about the amount you’re drinking,  and you’re still consuming it regardless, then you have a problem relationship with alcohol even at that level of consumption.

2 – 3 pints a night, is an alcoholic?

Well just about everyone I have worked with, in various sectors of the marine and offshore industries, is an alcoholic and massively so. Well, when they are when ashore anyway. Majority of the ones who were tea total, were recovering alcoholics.

Also, if you go into any typical local village pub, by your measurements, 95% of the customers will be alcoholic.

2 – 3 pints a night, is an alcoholic?

If you’re drinking that every day, and you’re having the sorts of struggles with it that I mention in my previous post; Not having it worries you, you’re concerned but continue anyway, or you’re deceiving other people about it, then yes, I’d call that level of consumption; problem drinking

OP you mentioned that she’s holding down her job, what’s the “culture” of her work like?

I’m well aware that the social and behavioural norms differ significantly between my work, my missus work and our home environment and that can create some odd stresses.

Essentially are there some “external influences” perhaps helping to reinforce/support her alcohol dependence?

Also you say this has happened over the course of 3/4 years, so almost half of that period has been during the pandemic. Has the disruption/curtailing of freedoms etc been a contributing factor also? Did things get exponentially worse since early 2020?
Are there any other factors that could be addressed in order to get at the root causes of her drinking? (Obviously very difficult with someone suffering a level of denial).

Again, I’m not someone with useful direct experience but I can imagine that should it come to the worst and divorce is the route you have to take, having tried to explore/understand all aspects of her addiction in an effort to help her could well play in your favour…

Good luck whatever happens from here.

Like others have said, it really depends on why people are drinking not necessarily the amount.
Abusing alcohol can sometimes be a way to self-harm too. Don’t know if it helps to think of it that way, @djglover ?

@gobuchul
The people you’ve worked with may not be alcoholics or alcohol dependent but I would suggest that type of lifestyle might lead people to become alcohol dependent when otherwise they might not have been. I imagine it’s a very on/off lifestyle and when you’re off you’d better enjoy yourself and that can involve drinking more than you should.
I used to work in journalism and there’s not really a drinking culture in that industry any more. Go back 40 years though and it was rife. A person wouldn’t have necessarily known they developing a problem with alcohol as they wouldn’t have been doing anything different to anyone else but, put in another profession, they’d have stood out like a sore thumb.

I’m not speculating on your drinking habits btw. Mine are pretty unhealthy at the moment so definitely not being holier than thou.

problem drinking

I think that defines someone drinking 20 pints a week more accurately than calling them an alcoholic.

Surely ‘alcoholic’ is somebody physically addicted to alcohol. Not someone who drinks to excess. I decided to stop completely about a year ago due to an unrelated issue, fitness goals mainly But I was on a bottle of red a night at least.

According to some on here, I was over the NHS guidance and therefore an alcoholic and so should’ve been fitting and hallucinating when I stopped. Well, nothing happened. We live in a weird culture where getting shitfaced all the time is normalised. My girlfriend at the time would be regularly putting away five bottles of white wine and I was the boring one!

on the 40 units per week, Drinkaware classifies me as “Increasing Risk” from a health perspective. I try an limit the volume and strength of the beer that I drink to fairly moderate levels. I did get drunk one this year, that was on a night out with some old friends. Typical night for me would be 3-4 330ml cans of 4% craft beer. I accept I drink more than is healthy sure.

I’m not a clinician but I’ve worked extensively around health & lifestyle issues, including alcohol intake assessments.

According to some on here, I was over the NHS guidance and therefore an alcoholic

You were over the NHS guidance, that’s not up for debate.

Alcohol intake alone won’t be used to label you “alcoholic”, but without checking I’m reasonably confident you’d have been categorised as high risk and advised to see your GP.

My girlfriend at the time would be regularly putting away five bottles of white wine

Over the course of one evening? That does sound a bit beyond drinking for pleasure TBH.