Divorcing a problem drinker

My wife has become a serious problem drinker over the last 3-4 years. It has got to the point where she probably has 4-5 large (250ml) glasses of wine per night, so we are looking at around 100 units per week.

This is obviously having a number of very negative effects on our family and will often cause her to pass out on an evening and have to be dragged up to bed. She has been in this state a number of times whilst I have been out and she was in charge of the kids.

We have clashed over this a number of times and divorce has been mentioned but always a second chance was given. Plenty of deflection and minimisation of the issue from her, which I guess is standard, I drink around 40 units a week so its difficult to come from the completely moral high ground when asking her to stop.

This all came to a head when we went on holiday last week, to be honest on reflection, taking an alcoholic to an all inclusive resort was asking for trouble!!.. but she proceeded to get very drunk in front of the kids on two occasions and had to be closely managed the rest of the time.

One of the kids has come up to me now following the holiday and asked me to divorce her so they can live with me and in my latest confrontation of her both me and the kid have been involved sadly.

In the latest confrontation we unearthed over 35 bottles of wine and sprits from various kitchen and utility room cupboards.

She has agreed to stop and go cold turkey but cannot take ownership of any of the previous incidents her drinking have caused, which one of the kids wrote down and handed to her and which made fairly grim reading, e.g. on NYE 2018/19 she was so drunk she fell down stairs and the kids were asking if she might die..

At the moment I’m inclined to push forward with the divorce, but what I worry most about is agreeing 50:50 custody and then she has a relapse whilst I am not able to be there to support the kids.

Anyone have any meaningful advice they can impart

If the drinking were to stop, would you still want to be in the relationship? IMO this would be the decider for whether to proceed with a divorce.
It sounds like your wife needs help and support to combat an addiction. It may make it easier if you are able to stop drinking too.
I have zero experience in this so apologies if I’m oversimplifying things, but I would perhaps take it as a positive that she has acknowledged she needs to stop. If she can admit to herself that it is an issue then perhaps she can begin to recover?

Anyone have any meaningful advice they can impart

Good luck….

Get your own shit watertight and look after your kids.

I would also say that realistically you need to go teetotal too (at least initially) to have a cat in hells chance of it actually working out for her too.

what riklegge said.

DJ, I feel for you. I have been in the same position myself and really had to get out of it. I started proceedings once, was persuaded to stop them after a period where my ex stopped drinking for six months, then restarted them when she restarted and would not stop. I ended up having to hide my wine collection at work because she was taking it and just drinking it like pop. The divorce was unreasonable behaviour FWIW.

Anyway, I understand your situation.

IANAL, but if she is still drinking, then there’s a decent chance you could apply for 100% custody. If she’s getting drunk, passing out, etc then she is not fit to look after children. Going cold turkey will not help. I’m biased, but as soon as something else bad happens to her, she’ll start again. Continuous support by professionals might help her stay off alcohol, but that is on her and you have to be aware that alcoholics will lie to anyone and everyone about their illness.

I know it will be hard, but I do think that your kids would be much better off away from her if she is in that state. I also think that, for your sake, you will be better off away from her. And yes, I say that without ever meeting her and based purely on my own PTSD over my ex.

not my personal experience, but knowing someone in a similar situation.. he got an urgent “live with me order” based on teh wife’s drinking issue.
The kids were with him from the word go, and the fact the drinking if REALLY problematic (i.e drunk in charge of kids, falling etc) I think you can be confident that a 50:50 split is unlikely.

However, be prepared to be in a situation where the kids are MEANT to be with mum, but you have to keep them as she’s drunk/not there etc

DrP

No mention of her welfare if she ends up living alone?

Not that im saying you should have at all, but i would factor it into your equation how you or your kids might feel if she ended up living on her own and the combination of alcoholism and “being left alone” resulted in her coming to a sad end?

similar thing happened to the mum of one of my friends at school, but ive got no experience or anything helpful of my own. so ill just say best of luck to you all.

So sorry. Nothing to offer other than my best wishes, but you’ll get some quality advice I expect.

My wife has become a serious problem drinker over the last 3-4 years. It has got to the point where she probably has 4-5 large (250ml) glasses of wine per night, so we are looking at around 100 units per week. In the latest confrontation we unearthed over 35 bottles of wine and sprits from various kitchen and utility room cupboards.

I read this thinking the worst, then you confirmed it with this unfortunately

My wife has become a serious problem drinker over the last 3-4 years. It has got to the point where she probably has 4-5 large (250ml) glasses of wine per night, so we are looking at around 100 units per week. In the latest confrontation we unearthed over 35 bottles of wine and sprits from various kitchen and utility room cupboards.

Alcoholics are incredible liars.

I highly doubt going cold turkey will help, sooner or later you’ll just find more bottles stashed away somewhere. Will she visit a doctor, or any sort of support group? As Riklegge asks, would you want to still be with her if she sorts it out anyway?

As others have said, based on the circumstances 50:50 access is unlikely. Be prepared for a long, rocky road though. Good luck

No mention of her welfare if she ends up living alone?

Olly, I spent six damn months thinking about that when I was putting up with the drunken arguments, the abuse and the other shit. At what point does it become other peoples’s problem because I can’t cope? Shit, I reported her to the police three times for drink driving and felt like a **** criminal for doing it, but knowing, KNOWING I was doing the right thing because she could kill someone whilst she was out in her car.

So yes, there’s an argument that says you should look out for them, but I tried, I tried everything to help her and I failed. She did not want my help and kept drinking. I divorced her, she got paid and her behaviour became her problem, not mine. I was told that an alcoholic has to reach rock bottom before they can choose to stop. At what point does them reaching rock bottom end up being a greater harm to other people?

Sorry, venting. It’s been four/five years and this is still very, very raw.

Sounds like a terrible situation, my sympathies.

In terms of actions, I wasn’t sure initially, but then this jumps out at me as the most important bit of your post:

One of the kids has come up to me now following the holiday and asked me to divorce her so they can live with me

If it’s true then I say unequivocally that is the action you must take. Divorce her and apply for 100% custody.

If at the end of that process you have any energy left then you could try to address this:

her welfare if she ends up living alone?

But I wouldn’t be giving it much priority at present.

Your circumstances may be different but for a more positive outcome. An alcoholic family member was told told to leave his family (wife and 2 kids) and not to come back till he was clean. This was the wake up call he needed and he has now been cold turkey for over 2 years (he still attends AA) and they are a very happy family.

Does she want to give up to keep you / the kids or because she wants to give up?
She will need to replace the addiction withe something else, make it positive.
As above do you still want to be with a so er version of her?

Sounds tough man, look after yourself. Cut back on your own drinking to give yourself clarity, calm and health.

Also what about her parents / siblings? What’s their opinion? You need their support as if she starts getting them to support her it will help her self dinial

Cut back on your own drinking to give yourself clarity, calm and health.

Probably good advise too – could imagine the kids would be properly nervous when they see you drinking too (even if you know it’s very different)

Ouch.

My take, bit harsh perhaps

Priorites at this point –

Kids
You
A distant third, her

The very best of luck with the situation. Addictions of any nature are horrible news. Alcohol especially so – it’s (a) everywhere and (b) very, very, toxic, in so many ways.

She has agreed to stop and go cold turkey but cannot take ownership of any of the previous incidents her drinking have caused

If she’s not owning the past problems, that won’t stick, rock bottom hasn’t happened, and I wouldn’t personally buy a word of that going sober promise without the ownership thing. Addicts will lie to the end. About anything and everything, to themselves, and you. She might even mean that 100% in this moment right now… but be straight back at it as soon as you’re not looking.

Be prepared for 100% custody / minimal to no contact.

Stay strong.

Man, thanks for all the quick replies – particularly thanks to willard for your contribution.

Couple of points, I have binned the booze for now. Kids are 13

Wife has no family support network, but despite the alcohol intake has not impacted her career and I feel certain that she would continue as a functioning alcoholic until it got the better of her health

I can relate to this story – however, in it I am one of the kids. My father was a drunk. He worked off-shore, so would be gone for 2-3 months at a time, then would come home and hit the drink hard. Sadly there was domestic violence involved, at it got to the point I once drew a knife on him to protect my mum.

Being a kid in the middle of alcohol abuse is awful. You’re always on edge wondering when it will next kick off. Or what that person is going to do. I used to lay awake at night just waiting for him to go to sleep so I knew we were all safe.

Somehow, though, he turned things around once he finally stopped working off-shore. Got into a normal routine (rather than turning up to the pub at opening time), and is now one of the nicest guys you’ll meet.

EDIT: I have to agree with others, get the kids out of the situation – it has a much longer term effect than you’ll realise.

Kids being 13 means they are old enough to understand why you’re doing what you’re doing I think.

If she’s currently still working and drinking, well, that unfortunately doesn’t bode well for a change of behaviour if her work will continue to support the lifestyle and addiction, with or without you.

Being a kid in the middle of alcohol abuse is awful. You’re always on edge wondering when it will next kick off. Or what that person is going to do.

As is being the partner.

Feel for everyone involved.

I know someone who was in a similar position and tried many times before it ended up with divorce.

As stated above though, if alcohol wasn’t involved would you still want to be with your other half. What was the reason for you both ending up drinking excessively in the evenings?

If she truly wants to stop, if drinking that much I cant imagine cold turkey is the solution, it will need lots of support all round and support to come off alcohol.

Try and cut down on your own drinking too

Mate had a similar issue. Was 2yrs of hell but he’s so much happier now.

Keep a diary
Speak to a family solicitor
Speak to your GP and raise it there.

If it’s true then I say unequivocally that is the action you must take. Divorce her and apply for 100% custody.

This is my sense, and thanks, some of you seem to think that would be possible. I have some evidence to support this outcome that the kids have written and videos I’ve made, but was really hoping that using them to lawyer up would be a last resort.

She has agreed to stop and go cold turkey

Just on this single point you should get some medical advice. Going cold turkey as an alcoholic can have very dangerous consequences and can even kill. Obviously it depends on the scale of the physical dependence which is why you need advice. Alcohol is the pretty much the only drug you can be addicted to which can kill you if you stop taking it.

https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/addiction-treatment-recovery/alcohol/alcohol-withdrawal-symptoms-timeline

@djglover No problem. I can’t offer anything more than just a person to vent to if you need it.

I had help during my divorce from a counsellor that was, weirdly, an alcoholic. Her difference was that she had reached rock bottom and had made a decision to never drink again. I wasn’t even seeing her because of my ex’s drinking either.

Protect yourself and your kids and really, really remember that you need to look after yourself too.

As others have said, your kids have to be the number one priority, and if you feel they are not in a safe environment, physically or mentally, you have to take action.

How do they feel about her current attempt, genuine or otherwise, to stay dry? Have there been previous failed attempts?

The acid test for me is whether she is willing to engage with external support to quit on this occasion, rather than just trying (and probably failing) to go cold turkey.

You have my sympathy OP.

There is some good advice above and some not so good. It sounds a very complex and difficult situation you are in and without knowing more I’ll refrain from commenting on the relationship between you and your family members.

What I will suggest is you need to look after yourself, maybe you could visit A.A and talk to them about your wife and her illness. A.A have people that know how alcoholics effect family life and what you can do to help deal with living with an alcoholic and the associated fallout. Good luck and please keep us updated with how you get on.

You’ll also know if she’s really going cold turkey anyway (from drinkaware.co.uk and my own experience)

“Physical symptoms of alcohol withdrawal

hand tremors (‘the shakes’)
sweating
nausea
visual hallucinations (seeing things that are not actually real)
seizures (fits) in the most serious cases ”

Its the first one I really remember seeing!

How do they feel about her current attempt, genuine or otherwise, to stay dry? Have there been previous failed attempts?

After the NYE incident, which was very damaging, she promised to never get drunk again. Obviously this was not kept, the kid(twins btw) asking me to press for divorce is not in the space to grant a second chance and very eloquently confronted her mother last night about this saying she didnt deserve a second chance, she had had 1000 chances since NYE 2018/19 and not taken one of them. I was hoping this would hit home, but the best apology she could come up with followed with was “you really should have been in bed”

So no remorse really, or any real trust that this attempt will be successful. As others have said, and I am clear this is an intervention, and she has not hit rock bottom so has limited chance of success

“you really should have been in bed”

That doesn’t mean she wasn’t listening, it could just be that means that the truth really hurt and she doesnt want to acknowledge it yet, which is slightly different from being at rock bottom.

Have you talked to her about what the kids said without the kids there? Have you talked to her about AA and both of you speaking to the GP?

Again to me it comes back to the question do you still want to be with her, and what caused you both to start drinking excessively? If you dont get that resolved, even if she stops drinking the original issue will still rumble on

My sympathies OP.
My sister had a similar situation with my BIL. Passed out, missing for days, lots of accidents.. Total failure to accept a problem despite a number of interventions. They are now divorced, my sister is happier than she has been for over 10 years. The kids understand the youngest was 8 when things broke down it was bad for a while before that though. I spoke to Alcoholics anon. at a few times during this whole episode. Even as a family member they were very helpful and gave good advice. I would recommend talking to any of the charity organisations as they can help you to understand and help the kids to understand. Throughout we have tried to help the BIL but we now have no contact, total failure to get help or acknowledge any problem despite numerous serious health issues including chronic pancreatitis and a dependancy on painkillers. We are there if he changes his behaviour, but not until he does.

I was told that an alcoholic has to reach rock bottom before they can choose to stop

2good friends of ours hit rock bottom, one was a close friend of ours on the surface had everything going for her, well off ex Vogue cover model was functioning alcoholic for years, drove both her lads away when they were old, enough nearly died a few times from drunken injuries. Fell a lot further before seeking AA help. Moved away broke contact with everyone from her past and we’ve never seen her since.
Another ran her a successful business and was functioning for years, husband died and she fell even further until she nearly drank herself to death before seeking AA. Again she moved and started over and is how we now know her.
Good luck. Seeing how our friend behaved/acted/lied I’d divorce – I’d do the same if it was MrsRNP

My dad was an alcoholic, just borderline functional really – hiding countless empty spirit bottles around the house etc., threatening his wife and daughter (my mum is long gone), hit me a few times when I was much younger etc. He’s been drinking heavily for probably 20 years at least.

I’d never have believed it but last year he quit. It took prostate cancer to do it, but he’s a much healthier and easier person to be around now (despite the ongoing radiotherapy).

Not sure if that’s helpful or not but I honestly would never have ever believed he could quit drinking, and – touch wood – he has.

Nothing to add to the above other than my very best wishes. The Kids must come first.

Be aware though that some addicts never hit rock bottom. It kills them before they get there. I watched my brother piss everything including his family up the wall before finally drinking himself to death. Horrible and I really feel for you.

Terrible situation. My mum was an alcoholic most of her life and had a terrible impact on the family, but ultimately her.

My dad spent many years trying to make her realise she had a problem, but ultimately everyones efforts failed and ended in divorce as she became very violent and abusive, but the root cause here is the alcoholism, which in itself is often a symptom of some deeper rooted issue and can be a cry for help. Not sure what measures you’ve attempted to get her to seek professional assistance. Asking an alcoholic to give it up is never going to work no matter how squeaky clean you are. You need professional help.

Not suggesting you are, but ‘abandoning’, or giving up on them is not a route out either. She is the kids mother after all so even if for that purpose it is worthwhile trying to help her address her issues. Divorce may not ultimately be avoidable, but ultimately divorce or no divorce she is someone who needs help and she isn’t going to/is not able to help herself. Someone has to take charge, but by the same token you can only do so much.

Sorry, its a really really crappy situation and you can’t do it by yourself, you’re going to need the help and support of the wider family and whatever professional help or support groups there are out there. After about 15 years my dad ultimately divorced my mum and my mum never recovered from her alcoholism and by the end she was estranged from all her family including me and my brother and ultimately never got over her alcoholism. Always something that niggles me to this day – you always think you could have/should have done more, but the whole family (we were a close family once) so about 15 people, tried for 15 years and more to get her to deal with the alcoholism but failed. Thankfully these days there is alot more understanding and proffessional help around and in my mums case I suspect there were also mental health issues complicating everything – again something that is so much better understood these days with better support structures available. If the help available to people now was available back then, then I can only theorise that we might have had a different outcome for my mum and everyones lives would have been richer for it. But we’ll never know.

Good luck.

My wife has become a serious problem drinker over the last 3-4 years. It has got to the point where she probably has 4-5 large (250ml) glasses of wine per night, so we are looking at around 100 units per week.

It sounds like she is drinking more than that to me. That’s less than 2 bottles of wine. It’s a lot but strikes me as more alcohol dependence than alcoholic. Although I except that some people don’t see a difference.

The hidden bottles of spirits would be the really worrying thing to me, suggests she is having a lot more than a 100 units per week. A cold turkey withdrawal may be pretty scary.

FWIW there a is a bloke who lives opposite me, who considers himself almost tea total, as he now “only” drinks 8 cans of Special Brew per night. He has done some bits and pieces of work at our place and I have had a few chats with him about his past. His rock bottom was living in squats and sleeping rough, injecting vodka. Several occasions he has woke up and one of his co-drinkers were dead.

Is separation an option? Could she afford to get a flat and live on her own? Might be the incentive she needs to change.

As for your drinking – I think if you got your wife of the drink you’d have to also accept never drinking again.

My friend is alcoholic. Knocks backs half a bottle of spirits a day plus a bottle or two of wine at least. We’ve all tried helping but he says he’s happy in what he does despite being in terrible health. He’s retired and there are no young kids involved thankfully, but our group of friend are expecting the phone call with bad news.

Hi basic problem is he is in a loveless marriage – his wife despises him and essentially used him to have kids. They’ve slept in separate bedrooms for donkeys years. He won’t divorce her as he still loves her, she won’t leave him as life is very comfortable spending his pension money and divorce will leave her out of pocket.

Good luck whatever the outcome!

You’ve got my sympathy about getting to the point where you have to make such hard decisions. I divorced my first wife 20 years ago and its interesting to talk to my grown up kids about it. No violence or other issues, just incompatibility. They hated the conflict and never wanted to make a choice between parents even when they see one who is obviously unreasonable so the fact that your kids have asked about divorce speaks volumes.

Concerning parental responsibility I can give you very specific advice. It’s my wife profession. You won’t get anything other than joint custody. It’s the default position and only a court order will change that. A court order will only be granted if there is independent evidence of actual harm to support the claim of risk. To that end you need to start reporting concerns and ask for help. Tell the school, the doctor and anyone else about the issue. She might not have much family or a support network report but get it into the open. Report incidents and ask for help from your local Children’s Social services. You won’t meet their threshold for intervention but the issue will be logged. As Willard said – report her for drink driving. If she arrives drunk to collect the kids don’t let the go and report it to the police if she gets out of hand. You have to create the evidence. This is all confrontational and very stressful but without evidence you have absolutely no chance of sole parental responsibility. Sorry but that’s the way it is.

As the kids get older they will develop their own ways of avoiding the drunken parent and make choices that will keep themselves safe. They will only want to go for very short periods of time and to public spaces (MacDonalds, school performances/games etc)

Whatever happens it’s going to be hard and my heart goes out to you.

A good friend lived with an alcoholic for years. It broke her.
You can not save everyone.
Take care of your kids.
Good luck.

I’ve been through this first hand. You should engage the school so they are aware of the situation and will pick up on any behaviors your kids are displaying that you might not be picking up on, they will have dealt with this before. Plus the authorities then become your allies should you need to progress things as they see you as the stable positive parent should it come to that.

The kids welfare is priority, everything else comes after that.

Horrible situation to be in

Two big questions – do you want to save the marriage? Is your wife ready to stop drinking?

If you have the money and she is ready then residential dextox could be an option. You of course have to stop drinking as well. If this is the road you want and are ready to go down then do it wholeheartedly and put your heart and soul into it. Addiction is a cruel disease. Be prepared to accept your culpability in all this as well.

however if she is not ready then its all a waste of time and effort and your option may be just to protect the kids – you may have to make a harsh choice to let your wife sink so you can protect the kids

You need some professional help now – Al – anon IIRC is the group for spouses of alcoholics

Don’t make any rash decisions, leave a way back but its time for decisive action. the best outcome is she stops drinking and you go back to a happy marriage but you cannot continue as you are.