Viewing 31 posts - 1 through 31 (of 31 total)
  • Crankworx Nopestyle
  • frogstomp
    Full Member

    A big shame – the slopestyle is always the highlight of Crankworx for me and was looking forward to seeing if Tom Isted could improve on last year.

    Athlete funding seems to be a big issue across the sport of MTB and rising costs can only compound that – will this be the year of athlete action? BK has alluded to similar in DH previously but the “rider’s union” seems a bit toothless at them moment (maybe due to the dominance of big industry teams).

    Is it unreasonable to expect some form of base pay / appearance fee as found in other sports?

    ayjaydoubleyou
    Full Member

    Firstly well done to the athletes for an effective union and working together. As well as the money issue they also raised safety complaints about practise times which I’m fully on board with.

    but, and this is my same ‘but’ when DH rider pay and prize money is brought up.
    im all for top riders being ‘full professional’ athletes (not having to take off season jobs, and maybe getting to retire fully when they are done competing).

    but I’m not a fan of appearance fees and big prize money.
    the money must come from somewhere – if you are crankworx or UCI WC, you can raise money for a prize purse by upping entry fees, charging the host town more money for the pleasure of hosting, or charge the in-person fans at the venue.
    none of these ideas helps to grow the venues, or encourage fan participation.
    The money should be coming from the riders sponsors. I know times are tight in the bike industry but I’d expect their income to come from the brand of bike they are on and the sponsors on their jersey. With pre-agreed win bonuses etc worked out preseason when the riders schedule is planned.

    dartdude
    Free Member

    Women’s at Rotorua was showing live on YouTube red bull channel this morning?

    frogstomp
    Full Member

    The money should be coming from the riders sponsors.

    I don’t agree that it should come entirely from the rider’s sponsors. If you’ve reached the point of qualifying / being invited to an elite level event with event-level sponsors (including broadcasters) some of that should trickle down, regardless of performance. That should be independent from prize money. To paraphrase BK : the riders are the show.

    Women’s at Rotorua was showing live on YouTube red bull channel this morning?

    I believe the women’s (inaugural) event is still happening – presumably separately negotiated.

    LAT
    Full Member

    What happened?

    frogstomp
    Full Member

    What happened?

    Wranglings..

    Women’s event going ahead around 9pm (UK) this evening:

    LAT
    Full Member

    Thanks 👍

    andyrm
    Free Member

    I’ve said this many, many times over the years – a professional athlete shouldn’t be reliant on prize money as income. That should be a bonus. The bulk of their income needs to come from sponsorship – ideally a blend of bike industry and outside. As for appearance fees – no. They’re either competing or they’re the equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters – it’s one or the other.

    If they want an appearance KPI built into sponsorship contracts, with a tiered bonus based on that, then all good, but an organiser shouldn’t be paying athletes to attend IMO.

    If the athletes don’t feel capable/comfortable structuring deals, then they need to get an agent. Again, I’ve said for a long time, the sport needs more agents to professionalise it and get better quality and quantity of deals done.

    dartdude
    Free Member

    Oh right if this is reason why the riders aren’t bothered then I totally agree what you mention Andyrm.

    Sounds very self entitled attitude of them and selfish for their fans / viewers

    chrismac
    Full Member

    I don’t agree that it should come entirely from the rider’s sponsors. If you’ve reached the point of qualifying / being invited to an elite level event with event-level sponsors (including broadcasters) some of that should trickle down, regardless of performance. That should be independent from prize money. To paraphrase BK : the riders are the show.

    I think it’s entirely down to the agreement riders make with sponsors. If sponsors don’t want to fund them going to these events then don’t seem surprised that no one else wants to fund it either.

    I hope for the riders sake that none of them are now in breach of their sponsorship contracts if competing at this event was part of their agreement

    frogstomp
    Full Member

    They’re either competing or they’re the equivalent of the Harlem Globetrotters – it’s one or the other.

    Are you actually suggesting that pretty much every mainstream, professional sport is effectively an exhibition match? Tennis, golf, boxing etc etc – they all have base prize money for effectively turning up.

    I’m not saying that they should necessarily be making big bucks, but seeing some of the revenue they are generating by being there heading back in their direction doesn’t seem unreasonable.

    chrismac
    Full Member

    Tennis doesn’t. You get prize money if you get through to the last 64. Most get nothing as they are knocked out in the qualifying rounds that happen pre round one unless you are ranked high enough to not have to do qualifying

    andyrm
    Free Member

    Let’s also not forget revenue is not the same as profit.

    Does slopestyle generate much by way of profit uplift for bike brands? I’d argue not, or else the athletes would be getting far higher contract values.

    Once the costs of course builds, event infrastructure, etc etc, does a slopestyle event make a lot of net profit?

    I can’t help that outside of die hard supporters, this move by the riders won’t help win them much favour, and that in turn will actually harm their incomes longer term.

    arogers
    Free Member

    I’m all for athletes getting paid and working in safe conditions, but imo they have not done themselves any favours with this move. Imagine if the situation was reversed, and the organisers turned round a couple of days before the contest and said “Sorry guys, times are tough, I know we signed a deal 6 months ago but we can’t afford to pay you what we agreed. You can have 40% less money or we cancel the event.”

    Would anyone support that as a negotiation tactic? It’s disrespectful to all the people who worked really hard to put together a good event, all the fans who paid money to go and watch.

    The reality is that freestyle MTB is an incredibly niche sport with very limited commercial appeal. There isn’t automatically a big pot of money waiting for an athlete just because they’re good at their sport.

    DickBarton
    Full Member

    Timing is absolutely ridiculous and I suspect the riders have now made it harder to keep or gain sponsors. Time and a place and if it was that difficult then they should have not bothered travelling there and made a stand from where they all live (as a one voice stance).
    The sponsors of the event are likely to also reconsider any future sponsorship deals as well.
    I absolutely agree with wanting to make things better, but doing it this way isn’t helping anyone.
    I’m also thinking it has been made even worse for the female event which really should be getting highlighted but the news is all about the blokes deciding they don’t want to play. Not in the league but similar issue with the Spanish dude kissing the Spanish female football player – all the limelight and celebrations for the win were completely ignored as it all focused on a bloke (admittedly doing wrong).
    Time and a place…

    mrchrist
    Full Member

    It’s mental to turn up to an event and then say we want money for appearing at the event you are already at.

    Fair enough, they have some suggestions on how to run the event to make it better for the riders but demanding more cash or you won’t ride is bonkers.

    BearBack
    Free Member

    2004.. Timo Pritzel, his commitment to the cause when gapped the cabin at Whistler joyride, breaking both ankles for what, a $1000 slopestyle podium prize purse?

    $30k total split between all mtb events and podium spots that first year.

    Its always the biggest spectator draw (crowd count), but I doubt the biggest revenue generator. I don’t believe that there’s a large number of people as destination traffic just for that specific event. Its more likely co-incidental spectatorship if you look at the demographics of the crowds.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    They’re just after a bigger slice of that massive amount of money sloshing around in the bike market at the moment.

    convert
    Full Member

    This being Singletrack, mostly populated by the uncool middle-aged (but let’s be honest, also the cycling demographic with the most disposable income) the thread probably needed to start with an explanation of what Crankworx and slopestyle are? Both new words to me. Which I guess might be half the issue – cycle industry as a whole is struggling and you are a niche within a niche that’s an irrelevance to many within the broader niche. Aren’t the finances of the ‘pros’ in this sector basically in the posh kids on a glorified extended gap year doing it for the lifestyle level of professional sport?

    wordnumb
    Free Member

    And you spell it works, not “worx”. Won’t somebody please think of the children…

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Came here to see the middle management get salty about striking and not understand how effective striking works, was not disappointed.

    Oh BTW this wasn’t spur of the moment, it’s been going on for years and they’ve been getting nowhere. Kinda like train drivers (similar reaction too).

    mark88
    Full Member

    the thread probably needed to start with an explanation of what Crankworx and slopestyle are? Both new words to me

    If you don’t know what Crankworx or slopestyle are then surely you just give this thread a miss?

    convert
    Full Member

    If you don’t know what Crankworx or slopestyle are then surely you just give this thread a miss?

    Hannah posted a news article about it on the main website (I know – it exists, and a mag!) and it piqued my interest as it was a foreign language in a general cycling world I otherwise speak quite fluently.
    But you are right – if it existed or didn’t will make the square route of **** all difference to me, so my views are largely irrelevant.

    mark88
    Full Member

    I’m surprised anyone reading a mountain bike magazine isn’t aware of Crankworx. In terms of downhill it’s the biggest event outside of world cup/champs and attracts some of the biggest names.

    I have no interest in slopestyle, but it still appears to be fairly prominent so I’d expect people to at least be aware of its existence. Maybe that’s because I use Pinkbike for news where it’s regularly on the front page.

    scud
    Free Member

    It’s a difficult one, especially when what they are doing is as much about being a show or a spectacle, as it is a competition or sport.

    So you’ll find that if a rider who is maybe out of the running to actually win, will just try and pull out a big trick to entertain, despite knowing he can’t win, and often at a big physical risk.

    How many times have you seen Red Bull Rampage, and not agreed with the winner, who’d get the biggest prize pot?

    How many times has one of these guys and now gals, been injured, only for you to see a fundraiser for hospital fees?

    I think they are just asking that this be taken into consideration

    Andy_Sweet
    Free Member

    It’s worth having a look at Tom Isted’s instagram for a statement about why they’re not riding. It’s clearly not just about money. These guys are genuinely risking their lives / life changing injuries so are well within their rights to expect to be treated well.

    convert
    Full Member

    mark88Full Member
    I’m surprised anyone reading a mountain bike magazine isn’t aware of Crankworx. In terms of downhill it’s the biggest event outside of world cup/champs and attracts some of the biggest names.

    I have no interest in slopestyle, but it still appears to be fairly prominent so I’d expect people to at least be aware of its existence. Maybe that’s because I use Pinkbike for news where it’s regularly on the front page.

    Maybe I’m just not as curious as I could be. Mind you, how many people who are into slopestyle would be aware of say, Strathpuffer or Cape Epic? This year marks 20 years since my return to mountain bike ownership – never once been motivated to go to the pink bike website. I know it exists, but that’s the edge of my curiosity.

    DickBarton
    Full Member

    These guys are genuinely risking their lives / life changing injuries so are well within their rights to expect to be treated well.

    Absolutely not arguing that point, however, before they became names and got sponsorship, they were doing this and knew the risks then. I’d hope that anyone who was serious about pursuing this kind of activity has got medical insurance/cover in place that covers what they are doing.

    They know the risks and accept them if they turn up and ride – but they do that every time they do this stuff – practice/competition and everything else.

    bigfoot
    Free Member

    mate i was riding with on sunday who’s lad was meant to be taking part said there’s a hell of a lot more to it than money and that things have been needing to change for years.

    nickc
    Full Member

    I wonder what the Venn diagram of folks not wanting to pay to watch DH and Slope-style and having a pop at riders wanting better pay or attendance/prize money looks like.

    no_eyed_deer
    Free Member

    Despite beeing into mountain biking for over 30 years and actually living in Rotorua, even I am unclear as to what ‘slopestyle’ actually is, or what goes on at CrankWorx. Initally when we first got here, I thought it might be some sort of enduro race. I still haven’t got round to going to the event in the 5 years I’ve lived here, even though we can get local resident mates rates tickets.

    A niche-within-a-niche indeed.

    The organisers should probably have just let the riders eat at the buffet.

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