Community Buy Out

There’s a plot of land in my street, a cul-de-sac, that is derelict land. Long story short, when the street was constructed around 16 years ago, it was meant to be a playpark. That didn’t happen for several reasons. It was obtained one way or another by a developer, but planning permission for an extra dwelling has been refused several times now thanks to local opposition. The latest refusal went beyond the council to government level. But the site remains in the developers hands so we residents haven’t been able to do anything with it.

Fast forward two years from the last refusal and the land was up for auction last week for £16k. Very short notice. It seemed to sell but is now back on the market for a new auction next week, guide price £8k. I suspect the lack of planning wasn’t mentioned up front to prospective buyers.

£8k, split among the 28 households in our street, isn’t a great deal of money, and there’s a thought that we residents could buy the plot and make a green space of it (as it should have been originally). But, there’s not much time and I can see various difficulties, including:

– Almost certainly, not everyone will want to or could contribute, upping the price paid by those who do contribute, and potentially creating some tension. If some paid, and we got the land, would there be resentment towards those who didn’t pay?

– How would we actually make a bid? Nominate one individual who gathers funds? Create a some sort of residents association? Is it possible to do that by 3rd October?

– If the guide price is £8k, are we kidding ourselves that we could actually get it for that?

The time to the next auction is not long (3 Oct) and it seems next to impossible we could get everything in place by then, but there’s a core of residents who really want this (and have for some time). Anyone have any experience or advice to offer?

would there be resentment towards those who didn’t pay?

Almost certainly, such is life. It’s for the residents who did pay to come to terms with that really

– How would we actually make a bid?

Create a small business (buy off the shelf), appoint officers, draw up a constitution and issue shares. Is probs the easiest ad fastest method. Once you’ve got the land the company can sell it on to any sort of community based organisation for a nominal fee (pennies)

are we kidding ourselves that we could actually get it for that?

Depends, you could ask the sellers what interest they’ve had. They may not tell you, but there’s nothing stopping you from asking. If they bought at £16k and then realised they can’t build on it (hence the knock down price) they maybe keen to make a quick sale to you just to get shot of it.

The time to the next auction is not long (3 Oct)

I think you’d struggle TBH.

Unless someone on your street is a contracts / property lawyer you won’t have a chance of sorting that out in time.  If not you are probably going to have to add on some pretty high solictor fees if you want to do it properly

If you are set on buying you are best of talking to a few good neighbours who you know well and can trust and buy it between you on a gentleman (woman?) agreement, one of you buys in sole name and you resolve the legalities of shared ownership in the longer term.  Therein lies a bunch of risk whether you trust these people or not.

If you open it up to the general public I would be concerned about liability.  Often why developers fence stuff off and then let it sit there looking a bloody mess until they can finally get planning

A plot of land that may scrape planning permission will go for a lot more than £16k!

Not sure how wealthy the area is, but could one resident buy it, then sell it to the community association you are thinking of setting up?

And if my house was close to a plot of land at that price I’d buy it myself to stop other development. And House + Plot of land just down the road would probably add more value to the house than the plot on it’s own.

Not sure how wealthy the area is, but could one resident buy it, then sell it to the community association you are thinking of setting up?

That was my thought – if just a couple of you can stump up £8-10k, then either sell/donate it to a community group.

If I had the money, I would buy it and try to sort out something later. Including the auctioneer fees that I’ve just read about, that £8k looks more like £12k now, and I doubt anyone here has that amount of cash ready to go (without emptying savings etc). Don’t want to pass up an opportunity, but equally, I can’t quite see how we’d sort anything by next Thursday.

…then there’s the legal fees as well!

Can you get it designated an asset of community value? Parish councillors can kick off this process. Will limit what can be done with it in the future (and probably depress the price). Not impossible that the form could be submitted before the auction if you know a councillor.

…then there’s the legal fees as well!

And maintenance liability.

Random thought:

Assuming that you can do this in time, it all goes swimmingly, everyone chips in, there’s no neighbourhood fallout, and pigs do indeed fly after all,

Then what?  You’ve got a plot of derelict land.  What are your next steps?  Turning it into something useable is going to take time, effort and more money, possibly considerably more.  Finding £300 from every household on what I’m going to assume is a relatively middle-class area shouldn’t be that tall an order in theory, but who’s going to pay for (say) a load of turf?  Park benches?  Ongoing upkeep and maintenance?  A shrubbery and a white picket fence?

You’ve had 16 years for you all to get your shit together and haven’t.  It’s not going to happen in six days.  What I’d do if I were you is a) start the ball rolling with setting up some sort of neighbourhood community group now so that if it goes up for sale again in the future you’re in a position to immediately strike, and b) lobby the council to buy and maintain it.

Try and buy it pre auction direct from owner.  It could a fab communal space, allotments, waste recycling, play area.  If a 3rd party buys it speculatively for housing, he could make it into an eyesore, store building materials.

Could be a really interesting project.

Then what?  You’ve got a plot of derelict land.  What are your next steps?

I take your point. But there is a back story…

Was meant to be a play park. Developer goes bust. No play park. Left derelict with crap soil and building debris. Some enterprising folks put in a couple of planters. Grass and weeds grow but it’s basically flat land that kids play on. Based on title deeds, it seems it’s the responsibility of residents. About 5 years ago I moved in. A year later I got together with some folks and we started giving it some TLC. Cleared out weeds and debris. Laid paving, up-cycled some pallets into benches. All good. Then an irate man appears one day telling us to get off his land. Turns out, at some point, the original developer sold the site and this guy wants to build on it. Our title deeds apparently incorrect or mean SFA. Residents object to plans. It goes through the council and eventually to Scot Gov. Planning refused (just). But the land definitely belongs to angry man. Work mostly stops. Throughout this, community council and main council are aware and offering various levels of assistance, but fundamentally, the land is not ours. But, it’s still wide open, not fenced off, and perfectly usable for kids etc or to sit in the sun for a bit.

Then, one day, digger arrives and tears up all the paving, planters, benches, etc. Breaks it all, piles it up and leaves. Police and council involved but obviously nothing comes of it. Not our land, so no comeuppance. Hence, back to derelict land. Since then, we haven’t done anything to it and eventually, a year or more later, council got a lorry in to level the site so at least it’s not dangerous (because kids still play there, obs).

So, can I say that we did try to get our shit together and were thwarted? Having our hard work and effort stripped away pretty much took the wind from our sails. Little point in a community group that has nothing to look after. Seeing the land now up for sale is very much out of the blue.

Could you set up a crowdfunder (after letting everyone know) with a promise that if the land is not purchased all funds would be handed back?

If you can advise people to fund anonymously then there would be no animosity to those that don’t, and of course those closer to the plot or more affluent may donate more significant funds.

Probably would need to outline what the plans would be to avoid later upset over what it ends up being used for.

Id be

a. registering myself as a potential buyer on the auction site website

b. knocking on doors and asking what appetite people have for buying it as a local community (cul de sac) and setting up a CIC (https://www.gov.uk/set-up-a-social-enterprise)

c. contacting the local community council

d. looking at trying to raise funds myself by hook or by crook – before someone you dont like buys it.

and doing it pronto.

Someone else in the cul-de-sac may have their eyes on it too. If cant get houses on it, can maybe get a garage or 2 on that plot.

might not have the time now, but the community value aspect may be possible. Could you talk to the planning officer- as they’ve turned applications down they may be more amenable to helping you.

This has happened locally

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/news/amp/residents-fears-after-mystery-buyer-snaps-up-nine-small-plo-312143/

also, is it worth looking into the “having looked after it – eg planters, play area” aspect it’s come into common ownership?

It’s a nice idea but seems fraught with difficulties:
1) Can people who didn’t pay still use the land? (see resentment bit above)

2) Who pays for upkeep?

3) What happens when someone moves away….. do the others buy them out (thus increasing the cost per household) or does it get passed to the new house owners – and who pays for the legal fees involved with that?
(If I moved away I’d definitely not want part ownership of a small piece of land I had no control over.)

4) Is there an insurance/liability issue?

5) If, for example, someone starts fly tipping on it who deals with it?

6) What services are underneath it? They could result in costs, etc.

Getting everyone involved will be near impossible. Are there a few people who border the land that might be keen? It’ll significantly add to the value of their property having a park right next door rather than a derelict site or a house. If it were next to my house I’d be snapping it up even if I had to borrow the money.

Guide prices are usually hopelessly optimistic and as you’ve found there are various fees to add. Usually add 50 to 100% That said I have seen odd plots in unpopular areas go for below guide price.

Worth the effort. All you have to do on the day is pay a deposit. You usually have 28 days to sort out the final payment and legal stuff. Bit of a gamble, though, if you aren’t ready, but might be worthwhile if you are close.

 If it were next to my house I’d be snapping it up even if I had to borrow the money.

If I lived next door I’d be buying it for me and including it in my curtilage – ‘garden land’ is very expensive. I’d be amazed if someone doesn’t do this.

@vww are you the one next to it (shared boundary)?

For 8k I’d be buying it myself with a view to establishing some sort of community garden, if there’s not enough cooperation within say 6mo then just sell it again and give up on the idea. You might lose a few quid on the resale but it’s cheap enough not to care about that.

Just to re-iterate the liability point, if kids who aren’t yours are playing on the land and you own it you are going to need some form of insurance in case of incident.

It only borders one property but is in direct sight/overlooked by half the street. Liability is a good point, one I hadn’t really considered going forward.

It’s so annoying – if the council had insisted the street was built to spec when it had the chance, none of this would have happened and it would no doubt have just been a small public park/garden. Maybe I’ll email my councillors again.

I take your point. But there is a back story…

It seems odd to me that someone else can sell land which, according to your title deeds, they don’t own. Did you ever take legal advice?

Little point in a community group that has nothing to look after.

There’s surely a point in a community group outwith a plot of land. Have a street party; a walking group; stitch’n’bitch knitting; pub quiz night; Gravy Wrestling Fridays; hell, you could even try to get people out on bikes. (-:

if kids who aren’t yours are playing on the land and you own it you are going to need some form of insurance in case of incident.

This is in Scotland. The Land Reform Act makes it clear that land owners/managers are NOT automatically liable for accidents that occur on their land. There would have to be some other contributory factor e.g. someone digs a big hole, leaves it accessible/unmarked and someone falls in and injures themselves.

Missed the bit where scotland was mentioned.  However, I’d still want insurance to cover the risk, maybe just me that worries about this sort of thing!