Can someone scam you if you give out your sort code and account number?

Selling something on FB market place, which is notorious for time wasters and scammers. The chap says he doesn’t have PayPal and wants to do a bank transfer. I can’t think of how they’d subsequently rob me if I give these out?

ta

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7174760.stm – Jeremy Clarkson thought it’d be OK…

But personally I’ve done bank transfer in sales but only after a LOT of research/digging into the buyer. I’ve also done it in reverse and paid private sellers direct to their bank a/c, but only after a ton of digging.

Personally I wouldn’t do it. If you really have no choice I would be keeping mindful of other seemingly innocent and unrelated requests/texts/emails/calls/whatever that could be aiming to complete the same puzzle.

Most likely they’re legit but its gonna suck big-time if your account gets emptied and banks may take a view on refunding you if you willingly gave out details, even seemingly benign ones.

Hmmm. That’s pause for thought.

There’s not a huge amount someone can do with your sort code and account number, either put money into your account, or set up a direct debit, which in turn is guaranteed by the bank anyway. 

Yes, Clarkson did his thing about 15 years ago, but i believe that Direct Debit (to a charity) was guaranteed by the bank, as it was a fraudulent direct debit that they had accepted.

As always, just keep an eye on DD’s on your account, it’s just common sense these days!

That story is from 2008.

Security has moved on since then but someone could set up a DD but recipient would need to sign up to the DD scheme first and you’d be covered under the guarantee anyway so low to no risk. Most business give out account details for payments all the time without issue.

I don’t think what happened to J Clarkson would happen now as much better security / 2 factor ID and all that. Plus he gave out his full name, address, postcode etc allowing people to register him for subscriptions and the like.
As far as I’m aware if you’re just giving out sort code account number and name all they can do is pay you. Have done it a few times including for a large payment for a camper van and never had an issue.
Plus once payment is confirmed and in your account it cannot be recalled. As opposed to the Western Union scams and the like where you can appear to have funds and then they can be cancelled later by the payee.

I’ve done it a few times as both buyer and seller. As a buyer be aware you have no protection if the deal goes south. As a seller be aware you may end up donating to a good cause.

Highly likely to be a scam, don’t know how but must be.

I put a bike on FB marketplace, within 15 minutes three people had offered to buy it from me, all saying very similar stories. The bike was for someone else (family member), if I send my bank details they would transfer the cash into my account. This is without seeing the bike or asking any questions about the spec.

Doomanic can you explain the latter comment? If you don’t send item until money received I can’t see how this happens?
In fairness I’ve always done it with someone I either know or have met in person.

Having been scammed in the past, it’s the people who actually work in the bank that I would be most worried about 😉

Tell the buyer to set up a Paypal account, it only takes a few minutes.

@andylc I was referring to the Clarkson story where he was signed up to a DD to a charity.

Weren’t those details on every cheque we ever wrote back in the day?

You can often set up instant savings accounts on the bank apps. These will give you an account number / Sort code but won’t support normal banking functions, or have cash/overdrafts etc. in them if you dont add some. I have one for just such use. Try and steal my £0.00 you scamming b’stards.

Ah yes back in the day I think he got signed up to all sorts of random things but I don’t think that’s possible any more.
Good idea ref separate account for payments if you’re worried.

You have to have the name of the acc holder bang on and the other person’s bank you would like to think are very diligent security wise

Yes.

They transfer money to you.

You give them the bicycle.

They then say that they didn’t receive it, and get the transaction reversed by their bank.

You have no proof otherwise.

As far as I’m aware you cannot reverse a bank transfer other than by asking the person you sent it to to give it back.
My neighbour experienced this when his Dad was scammed into sending large sums of money to people on his list of bank payees. Assume the scam here was that they would be contacted and asked to return the money to a different account. Anyway he found out and managed to get the money back. One was an old friend of his Dad and the bank told him he simply had to get in touch with her and ask her to give £10,000 back to his dad. Luckily she was a decent type and did so.

If it seems genuine I’ve never had a problem with it. As above it’s exactly the same details that you’d see on al your cheques in the past (only it was the buyer that had to give the details, not the seller).

The scam part is only if they have some level of control over the account sending you the money.

e.g.
Hacked accounts obviously.
Getting someone to transfer it from over the counter in branch.
Being the middle man in a 3 way scam (they’ve got an item listed for the same price as yours, they get their “buyer” to transfer the money to you, you ship your item to them, the other buyer never receives anything and reports it at fraud).

I pay and get paid by bank transfer a lot, I usually just go with my gut feeling.

Closest I’ve come to being scammed was on here, bought some “recently serviced” forks, that were obviously f***** (they’d serviced them realized that didn’t cure the problem and sold them on).

You have to have the name of the acc holder bang on and the other person’s bank you would like to think are very diligent security wise

Not on my bank, you don’t…if the name doesn’t match you might get a warning in text, but payment can still go through

Christ, there are some paranoidos on here!

Just bought something of FB – Track bars. But then I researched the seller, it was from Track Cycling Buy and Sell. I paid by PP and covered the fees whilst the seller covered postage. In the event, I would have been happy to transfer the funds since he is legit, cycles at LVV and I was happy to meet F2F to collect. I’d just go PP only and swallow the fees, personally.

Weren’t those details on every cheque we ever wrote back in the day?

This.

Just to counter some misinformation, neither a sending or receiving bank can’t just ‘reverse’ a Faster Payment transaction. It’s a one-way transaction, and once the money is in your account it is your money, legally. For it to be taken out of your account and sent back, fraud would have to be proved.

Being pedantic now, but is the cheque thing really relevant?

They were a prime method of payment in like the 1980’s and early 1990’s and largely pre-internet and digital scamming weren’t they. Whatever your thoughts on the OPs scenario, it seems to me the consequences of handing someone your account details when cheques were a popular form of payment were pretty different to what they could be today by giving them to someone on Facebook.

They transfer money to you.

You give them the bicycle.

They then say that they didn’t receive it, and get the transaction reversed by their bank.

You have no proof otherwise.

“What bicycle?”

It’s Facebook Marketplace. There’s no proof of anything in either direction, might as well be selling it in the pub.

Ordinarily if someone didn’t have Paypal I’d say “off you pop and set it up then,” but in this case PP G&S is more risky. It could then pan out exactly as you say.

There’s no proof of anything in either direction, might as well be selling it in the pub.

And to expand this simile, once they’ve put the money in your account with a Faster Payment, that’s the equivalent of you putting the cash in your pocket. They’re not getting it back without you giving it back to them.

As others have said, a scam where they say they didn’t receive an item is irrelevant – if you send money to someone via bank transfer then you are acting on trust that they’ll then give you what they said they would.
Might be relevant on eBay if they open a claim against you, but not on FB marketplace – which by the way I’d agree is equally as evil and a waste of life as Facebook itself…

I’m fairly certain that I have read about a scam where people think that money has been transferred to their bank account and it has not, in order to defraud them of an item they are selling.

I’ve been trying to figure this out recently as well whilst trying to sell a wardrobe on Facebook (stealth ad!).

As everyone else says, once they’ve transferred money to your account they can only get it back if you want them to. But in this case, what’s the scam? Why is someone who is based nowhere near me desperate to pay full price for an item they’ve not seen and that their “cousin” will come collect. And why am I getting a dozen near identical messages from similar people?

As others have said, a scam where they say they didn’t receive an item is irrelevant – if you send money to someone via bank transfer then you are acting on trust that they’ll then give you what they said they would.

IIRC it depends on the sending account? If it comes from abroad then it appears in your account before it goes out of the (potentially not the) buyers account. So you get paid, ship the item, the hacked account stops the transaction, your bank removes the money from your account because it never really existed.

Within the faster payments network it’s different. But even then, if the money comes from a hacked account then the resolution might end up being you have to give the money back, that you can’t recover the goods wouldn’t prevent that.

Being pedantic now, but is the cheque thing really relevant?

Yes, you need just the same other details to complete the fraud now as back then, if anything it’s probably a lot safer. Unless you’re an idiot and the answers to all your security questions are on facebook.

Faster payments can’t be reversed unless they’re fraudulent. The alleged scam is where you sell something and the buyer pays you from a hacked bank account. The real owner of the account gets their money back, from you, apparently. I’d hope that if the real owner was negligent, it’s their loss, and if they weren’t negligent, the bank were at fault and should pay up.

The alleged scam is where you sell something and the buyer pays you from a hacked bank account. The real owner of the account gets their money back, from you, apparently

No, they’ll get it back from the bank that holds the hacked account, and that bank will rack it up as a fraud loss.

One thing I read about recently was someone “accidentally” overpaying by BACS and asking to refund the difference (maybe in cash) which opens you up to money laundering prosecution if you don’t know where the money came from

Maybe it’s part of a phishing exercise. If it’s Facebook marketplace, then you may have your DOB on FB. Address for the collection, why thank you, another bit of personal info there.  If you give them your sort code, they can trace the bank and branch. With that little bundle, they are fairly near having a lot of financial information to subscribe to sky etc, or other nerfarious activity.

One thing I read about recently was someone “accidentally” overpaying by BACS and asking to refund the difference (maybe in cash) which opens you up to money laundering prosecution if you don’t know where the money came from

This is classic ‘a fella down the pub said’ territory.

FWIW, BACS doesn’t exist anymore for personal payments either.

Im only concerned about them setting up a direct debit really. Not concerned they’ll try to claw back the cash

sellers profile is completely blank on fb, he claims he doesn’t have PayPal as they asked for a copy of his passport pic or something which he refused to do. I have had paypal for years and they’ve never asked me for that

item I’m selling is of fairly low value so the initial transaction isn’t the concern

sellers profile is completely blank on fb,

That’s the trigger to walk away!!!

One way I’ve heard of it being done is buyer trying to guilt trip and force quick postage by sending fake screenshots of online banking to ‘prove’ payment has been sent and it’s just been delayed showing in your bank. They’ll talk people into believing it’s all legit, most won’t fall for it but a small percentage will.

I’m fairly certain that I have read about a scam where people think that money has been transferred to their bank account and it has not, in order to defraud them of an item they are selling.

This happened to a friend a couple of weeks ago.  The buyer turns up and shows you on his phone that he has transferred the funds to you. But after 10 mins it doesn’t appear in your account he says he needs to go now and the money must be on its was so he wants the item.  In reality his phone was running a spoof app and he never transferred the money.

But I generally agree with what the non paranoids above have said – when the money appears in your account it’s yours and he can’t use only your sort code/ account name/number to remove your money.