Bearing help?

For my Vitus Energie Pro (2017)

The spec sheet says it’s fitted with a Token A83M-15, 1.1/8” – 1.5” headset, but I’ve had apart for a clean last week and the bottom headset race is a caged ball bearing race, not a sealed cartridge as the Token spec would say. And they are a bit graunchy (well, a lot)

So I ordered some 1.5″ caged bearing races from the ebay, which have arrived and looking to fit now, they’re far too small. I didn’t dissemble it, only dropped the fork part way out and I’d estimate the diameter of the caged bearings to be 44/45mm using a caliper against the lower race?

Any idea where to get them from; my weak google is only turning up ebay or amazon from China with a month delivery? I can’t believe they’re that odd a size?

And don’t suppose anyone has the same bike / headset and does yours have bearings or a cartridge?

Try https://www.kineticbikebearings.com/

cheers, that looks promising

https://www.kineticbikebearings.com/ball-bearing-retainer-5-32-x-27-1-5-headsets.html

What you can do is measure the individual ball bearing diameter and just replace the cage with loose balls in grease. It’s fiddly but traditional! Usually fit one less than a fully packed bearing to allow movement. I’ll send you some balls for nothing if you direct message me with diameter and approximate number. However, if the bearing cups and race have been damaged then you may be looking at a complete headset. Fingers crossed, try the balls first. Hope this helps.

If it’s 5/32″ balls then https://www.kineticbikebearings.com/ball-bearing-retainer-5-32-x-27-1-5-headsets.html
Is the right size. Cheaper and without the retainer, you can fit more in there.

Thanks – it’s running OK now but I suspect the surfaces are pitted and so will need a new lower if not new headset in due course. But it’s running and that’s a job for another day. Good call on going loose bearings

Actually when I had apart last week I think the retainer was plastic, so might be possible to strip the old balls out and then clean and fit new in that?

You could, but there’s little point. Without the retainer, you can get more balls in. Loose balls means more movement and that in turn can help “hide” the damage if the pitting is only slight.

When wheelsonfore1 says it’s traditional, it used to be the case that some people would remove caged bearings on the kit and replace them with loose balls and extra grease.

This was before sealed cartridge bearings.

Ta – ordered some 5/32 on Prime for a fiver, will have a proper go in the week. If not the right size, not much lost.

If the retainer was plastic are you sure it as per that kinetic caged bearing and not just a completely fubar’d bearing?

My KTM headset disintegrated after virrually no time to the point bearings and everything fell out. The balls had been held in place with a plastic retainer but it was definitely a cartridge bearing originally. Just fubar’d when i got to it. Similar on an FSA bottom bracket.

On the KTM, the race and inner bearing ring fell out, the outer part of the bearing stayed put in the frame and needed a little coaxing out.

Could well be wrong but the bearings in both cases have been held in place inside the race by a plastic guide/shield/retainer type thing. All packed with grease and then Rubber shield.all originally sealed cartridge bearings. to start with anyway!

I guess it’s possible!

It’s together and running right now but will have a proper look in the week.

Good luck!

If it is a cartridge bearing you should find the type stamped onto it somewhere. Usually on the rubber shield e.g 6902RS – tells you what you need. Or sometimes the dimensions are printed onto the metal face of the bearing so you know what size to go and order. Cant remember off the top of my head but its something like outerdiameter x inner diameter x height and letters for straight or angled edge.

if it is a cartridge I think it’s in so many pieces that might be wishful thinking!

Know that feeling. Nightmare replacing the KTM one. Completely disintegrated although i did find the size stamped on one piece. And the bearing fitted was nothing like the one that was meant to have been fitted!

@Onzadog before mass production bearings were just loose balls, I can’t imagine the dexterity needed for assembly! Later caged bearings became common in headsets, bottom brackets and even wheels, usually on the very cheapest bikes. However, the cages do allow the balls to rotate independently, if you take the seals off a cartridge bearing you’ll find a cage – unless it’s intended for suspension where there’s little rotational movement so strength is important. It’s all quite interesting and subject to lots of different opinions! However, I can also recommend Kinetic Bike Bearings. I’ve had years of good service from them.
Proper cartridge bearings are an inner and outer race that cannot be dismantled, some cheaper versions have a plastic or steel collar that keeps it all together- this may be what the OP has?

@silasgreenback

Great shout. After a super wet ride this morning, it needed a proper clean so took the opportunity to drop the fork out again, and on cleaning the bottom of the steerer it had a split crown race, and then what I thought was the crown race above that. Which immediately said to me that was half a cartridge bearing, as you predicted. A few taps with the medium persuader down through the headtube, and I’m now in possession of two halves of a cartridge bearing, and a caged bearing that sits between them.

No sign of any seals mind, and nothing stamped on the bearing bits so I’m going with the IS 52/40 specced in the Token dox, and ordering from a stockist says it’s a 51.8x40x8x45deg…… so now googling to see if there’s a drawing of one of them I can check against the bits (I’ve got OD, ID, angle and I guess I can pretty well know height)

@theotherjonv
Cracking…glad you’re sorted and glad it was useful info 😁