Autumn's here (SMIDSY content)

Anyone else seen/remember Disco Biscuits? I think they’re an Aldi own brand.

Still make them, but they were renamed to Groovy biscuits a few years ago due to…well….you know.

I still think flashing lights and high-vis attract attention, they’d only have to be able to see you out of the corner of their eye, then draw their attention, rather than ‘seeing’ you out the corner of their eye and not registering that youre there as you blend in.

I had a good pic from a horsey friend of a rider on a lane, and they were almost completely invisible (and this is a 10ft high, 400kg+ horse and rider), then the same locaion with a high vis vest.

Just checking in so that I can say I’ve taken part in the 12th Annual STW Winter-Hi-Viz-Debate thread.

If anyone needs me I’ll be waiting for the lights thread version to get that out the way as well.

Given how recently we had this row, I’m still calling troll.

And I’m sorry my light hearted approach earlier twisted so many peoples tails.

In the meantime, I will continue racking up hundreds of miles a month riding on the road wearing bright/hiviz clothing and lit up like a Christmas tree day and night to do my best to reduce the risk of an idiot in a car hitting me.

The rest of you can take whatever approach you feel is best, until driver training, Police enforcement and proper sentencing reduce the risk we all face.

I’ve broken out the big gunz. Gunners

Fixed (2-0)

The rest of you can take whatever approach you feel is best

I’ll try and ride a bit faster, as that’s likely to have just as much benefit* as wearing hi-viz.

* according to my personal guesswork, but that’s the same principle which is being used to support hi-viz

In the meantime, I will continue racking up hundreds of miles a month riding on the road wearing bright/hiviz clothing and lit up like a Christmas tree day and night to do my best to reduce the risk of an idiot in a car hitting me.

And likewise, I will continue to rack up hundreds of miles a month wearing ordinary clothes, and lights when visibility is poor, in keeping with a low risk activity. I will also continue to drive without wearing a helmet and walk without wearing hi-viz.

That’s bullshit! You have no proof!

Jamie say it isn’t so

MoreCashThanDash – Member

Given how recently we had this row, I’m still calling troll.

And I’m sorry my light hearted approach earlier twisted so many peoples tails.

I’m not here 24/7

In the meantime, I will continue racking up hundreds of miles a month riding on the road wearing bright/hiviz clothing and lit up like a Christmas tree day and night to do my best to reduce the risk of an idiot in a car hitting me.

I preferred the hotdog, Al.

You’re right. I’m wrong. I’m very sorry for wasting so much bandwidth before I realised this.

Some strange views in here.

If people aren’t looking then no, they aren’t going to see you regardless of what you’re wearing.

That being said, good drivers who are aware of their surrounds and watching the road both in front and behind are going to struggle seeing you if you’re enough of a prat to commute in dark clothes.

That being said, good drivers who are aware of their surrounds and watching the road both in front and behind are going to struggle seeing you if you’re enough of a prat to commute in dark clothes.

Yes, it’s a miracle I’m still here, especially considering I don’t wear hi-viz when walking, either.

I’d imagine, Ransos, that you walk on the pavement?

If you’re walking down the middle of the road with your back to oncoming traffic I’d say you’re probably right, it is a miracle.

If I was out walking the dogs down a road without a pavement in anything but the brightest of days I’d be chucking on hi viz.

Risk vs a little effort to not be a complete numpty and all that..

I’d imagine, Ransos, that you walk on the pavement?

Sure, and I cross the road too. Some poor souls get mown down by motorists when doing so – if only they’d worn hi-viz, eh?

Risk vs a little effort to not be a complete numpty and all that..

Yep, wearing a helmet when driving is very little effort.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.. 🙁

No, I’d imagine (no stats to back it up) that these would be more incidents of the pedestrian having not seen the car though. Do yoyu have a breakdown to suggest that pedestrians struck by vehicles are hit because the driver didn’t see them or do you think there may be a range of causes, e.g. pedestrian stepping out, driver losing control or other. Cyclists share the carriageway with motorists thus it being more important that the motorist knows you are there. Your smug and oblique responses are not based on any thought having been given to the subject matter and are just an attempt by you to justify your own position re hi viz.

Sure, and I cross the road too. Some poor souls get mown down by motorists when doing so

plenty of pedestrians killed on the pavement too don’t forget

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry..

Road KSI stats certainly contain plenty to be concerned about, not so much fun stuff in there tho 🙁

Your smug and oblique responses are not based on any thought having been given to the subject matter and are just an attempt by you to justify your own position re hi viz.

Plenty of stats about head injuries to car occupants, but suggesting helmet use for them is “daft”

“normal” stuff like driving and walking (aslong as it is to and from the car) it’s accepted that you can do it in your normal clothes, anything else is dangerous and needs special clothing and padding.

where do you get your smartie generic sugar coated chocolate cookies from jamie? 🙂

No, I’d imagine (no stats to back it up) that these would be more incidents of the pedestrian having not seen the car though.

I’d imagine (no stats to back it up) that you’re victim blaming.

Do yoyu have a breakdown to suggest that pedestrians struck by vehicles are hit because the driver didn’t see them or do you think there may be a range of causes, e.g. pedestrian stepping out, driver losing control or other.

I suspect there is a range of causes, just as there is when cyclists are hit by cars.

Cyclists share the carriageway with motorists thus it being more important that the motorist knows you are there.

Which is best achieved by the motorist looking where he is going.

Your smug and oblique responses are not based on any thought having been given to the subject matter and are just an attempt by you to justify your own position re hi viz.

It’s not up to me to justify anything. If you wish to show how the wearing of hi-viz is necessary for a low-risk activity, with the specific safety benefits, then be my guest.

Going by the number of people knocked of bikes every day I’m not sure I’d call it low risk.

If you don’t want to wear hi vis, if you’re too cool, down with the kids… whatever… then don’t. Not my problem. I’ll keep on using a bit of common sense and weighing up the risk of what I’m doing vs the effort I’ll take to keep my self safe.

It seems theres a lacking of common sense and an abundance of halfwits regardless of the form or transport.

If you wish to show how the wearing of hi-viz is necessary for a low-risk activity, with the specific safety benefits, then be my guest.

When I’m driving it’s my observation that cyclists wearing high-viz are more noticeable than those wearing all black (or even blue, red etc.)…that is, I pick them up that fraction of a second earlier. My own observation is good enough for me so I choose to wear flo yellow. You’re happy wearing black, fine…no need to be a tool about it.

Going by the number of people knocked of bikes every day I’m not sure I’d call it low risk.

About the same risk as walking or driving…

If you don’t want to wear hi vis, if you’re too cool, down with the kids… whatever… then don’t.

I don’t wear hi-viz because cycling is a) a low risk activity so there’s absolutely no need to wear special clothes that make it look dangerous and b) I’ve yet to see evidence that hi-viz would confer a safety benefit.

I’ll keep on using a bit of common sense and weighing up the risk of what I’m doing vs the effort I’ll take to keep my self safe.

I’ll do the same. See above.

It seems theres a lacking of common sense and an abundance of halfwits regardless of the form or transport.

I couldn’t agree more.

I’d imagine (no stats to back it up) that you’re victim blaming.

I’m not. Are you saying that anyone involved if anyone is involved in an RTA then the car driver is immediately at fault?

Which is best achieved by the motorist looking where he is going

They’re generally not though, are they?

When I’m driving it’s my observation that cyclists wearing high-viz are more noticeable than those wearing all black (or even blue, red etc.)…that is, I pick them up that fraction of a second earlier. My own observation is good enough for me so I choose to wear flo yellow. You’re happy wearing black, fine…no need to be a tool about it.

Right, so your evidence is a single person’s anecdote. If that’s your basis for getting dressed up then that tells me all I need to know.

I’m not. Are you saying that anyone involved if anyone is involved in an RTA then the car driver is immediately at fault?

Nope. You were the one making an assertion, remember?

They’re generally not though, are they?

If a motorist is not looking where he or she is going, hi-viz can’t make any difference, now can it?

Nope. You were the one making an assertion, remember?

In order to have an appropirate response to the risk you need to have an idea of the potential root causes of the incidents don’t you? Just saying it’s somebody else’s fault isn’t massigely constructive.

If a motorist is not looking where he or she is going, hi-viz can’t make any difference, now can it?

You can assume that they spend a little time looking in their general direction of travel though can’t you? Making best use of this brief window of attention is to your adavantage, would you not agree?

In order to have an appropirate response to the risk you need to have an idea of the potential root causes of the incidents don’t you? Just saying it’s somebody else’s fault isn’t massigely constructive.

Again, you were making the assertion, not me. In any case, to follow your argument, if pedestrian fatalities/ accidents were always due to them stepping out without looking, wouldn’t the motorist stand a better chance of avoiding them if they were wearing hi-viz?

You can assume that they spend a little time looking in their general direction of travel though can’t you? Making best use of this brief window of attention is to your adavantage, would you not agree?

Given reasonable visibility, I’ve never had any trouble spotting a cyclist on the road, regardless of what they’re wearing. I’m sure you’re aware of the Danish and Dutch accident statistics – and what they wear when cycling.

I’m still waiting to hear why PPE is being advocated for one particular low risk travel activity, but not others that have a similar risk.

Ransos.

You are clearly a principled person who has the courage of their convictions. You believe in the world as it should be, not as it is. For this, I commend you.

danny, have you managed to think about any of the other reasons why cyclists wearing hi-viz isn’t a good idea yet?

Ransos.

You are clearly a principled person who has the courage of their convictions. You believe in the world as it should be, not as it is. For this, I commend you.

I have the courage of my convictions because they were shaped by evidence and proportionality. I also think it’s a shame that people perpetuate the myth that cycling is dangerous, as I consider that to be a barrier to more bums on saddles, which of course is the single best thing that could happen for our safety.

But hey, it’s your choice.

Right, so your evidence is a single person’s anecdote.

I wasn’t offering any evidence, simply countering your demand for such with an observation. I thought the word ‘observation’ might have been a give-away…

Can I take it from your response ransos, that throughout your life you never make decisions based on your own observations? How odd!

If that’s your basis for getting dressed up then that tells me all I need to know.

We’re all dressed up like dick-heads…a splash of flo yellow isn’t going to make any difference. Or are you laboring under the impression that you look dead cool in your black leotard and matching top?

We’re all dressed up like dick-heads

What everybody on the entire planet, or just those wearing bike specific clothes? Because it is possible to ride a bike whilst wearing normal clothes you know.

I wasn’t offering any evidence, simply countering your demand for such with an observation. I thought the word ‘observation’ might have been a give-away…

Can I take it from your response ransos, that throughout your life you never make decisions based on your own observations? How odd!

I’ve asked for evidence that hi-viz improves cyclists’ safety several times in this thread. The silence is instructive…

We’re all dressed up like dick-heads…a splash of flo yellow isn’t going to make any difference. Or are you laboring under the impression that you look dead cool in your black leotard and matching top?

When cycling to work, I wear my work clothes. As I would if I was walking and driving.

Again, you were making the assertion, not me. In any case, to follow your argument, if pedestrian fatalities/ accidents were always due to them stepping out without looking, wouldn’t the motorist stand a better chance of avoiding them if they were wearing hi-viz?

No. If they could see them they’d just have a better view as they bounced off the windscreen.

Given reasonable visibility, I’ve never had any trouble spotting a cyclist on the road, regardless of what they’re wearing. I’m sure you’re aware of the Danish and Dutch accident statistics – and what they wear when cycling.

Good for you, I’ve made a number of mistakes when driving and had a crash or two along the way happily no one’s been hurt and I’ve done my best to learn from these errors an ama better driver as a result. That’s not to say I won’t make errors in the future and I’m pretty sure, barring you being superhuman that you can’t guarantee the same. We don’t live in the netherlands we dont have such high participation rates or drivers with the same cultural outlook or the laws and infrastructure they have either.

Because it is possible to ride a bike whilst wearing normal clothes you know.

Technical fabrics or GTFO!