Are Hardcore Hardtails fun ?

Is there such thing as a non-fun mountain bike?

That Sonder has been added to my n+1 list. But I wonder how suitable it would be on steep Alps switchbacks, which is the sort of terrain I now ‘need’ a bike for (once a year). The fork compression and steepening head angle might make a FS a better option. But there’s no doubt I would use a hardcore HT more often the rest of the year.

They’re pure fun. If you value fun above all other factors when you go for a ride, get one.

If you’re concerned about strava times, racing, comfort, training, etc probably better with a FS.

@corroded I don’t find the steepening HA so much of an issue on switchbacks, as a full sus steepens up when your weight is forward on that sort of thing. It’s more landing squirrely drops when you notice that. Hence since moving to a reasonably slack HT I’ve not had an issue, I’ve also got a carbon Transmitter on my shopping list.

You do need to make sure your compression and rebound is dialled in properly, otherwise you’ll quickly swallow up 140mm which isnt fun as it changes the feel of the bike massively when you’re at the bottom of the travel.

But once you’ve learnt how that should feel my C456 with 140mm was pretty good fun.

A little more to add..
Don’t get me wrong; I’d love to have a FS to play about and race on, but for most of my local (and less so) riding, a hardcore HT is just more..well..fun!

THe root down is like a ‘big’ BMX! Popping off roots, jumping logs etc etc.
It’s just great fun. A goon really.
Also, it does climb really well too.

I agree what’s been said about having the forks dialled – I’ve got the Luftkappe mod and it’s made some great Pike forks AMAZING…

Worth it TBH

DrP

Got the MRP cartridge damper in my Revs on the front of my HT, a decent fork setup does make the difference…mind you don’t get me started on how you have to fit MRP or Luftkappe add ons or tokens to get a £500 – £1000 fork working properly.

Grrrr….

Definitely fun bikes! I’m hoping to pick up an On One Deedar frame bargainously cheap soon, and build it into a 150-160mm hardcore hardtail.

Currently debating wheels (and forks, and many other bits). Trying to work out if a 26″ rear wheel with a 2.8″ tyre is a good idea, with a 27.5″ front with a 2.5″ or 2.6″ tyre.

I’ve already run one plus bike, and it just seems to sensible on a HT, having that volume on the rear tyre. Thats the biggest difference with a 2.8 vs a 2.5 IMO – the side walls are much taller, giving more volume, even if the gain in width is minimal.

Thoughts?

I really like them but and am just about to build a Shan up as my winter ride but on dry fast lumpy summer trails I prefer my 29er full bouncer. For me it’s best have both and but if I could only have one it would probably be the full sus as ultimately long days are easier.

Yes yes yes. I have a Cotic BFe and a Transition Covert. Both lovely bikes but I ride the Cotic much more, the Covert is Alps holidays only really these days. The reason being the BFe is a such a laugh and for the trails I can ride (inc normal Surrey Hills, QECP stuff) it makes the ride more engaging. The Covert just rumbles over everything (I can ride) and makes it all seem a bit boring, its only really in Alps I need it. I don’t care about speed, the Covert is faster but slower and “bumpy” is good for me

Yes. Great fun. Love my shan. The nomad is far more acomplished in every way but i still take the shan instead some of the time. And it looks better, which is vital…

Isn’t a hardcore hardtail just like a full suspension bike with a lockout rear shock? Or am i missing something?

Soft if you want and an instant hardtail if you want to feel it come alive through the pedals?

My Dartmoor hornet is a blast

Had a bit of taste for one last Christmas. I built up a Commencal Meta HT, but I wasn’t keen on it (too short and tall).

It was designed for a 160mm fork, but I used my fox 34 150mm and fitted an angleset.

It didn’t really improve it to be honest and now I’m back on a 2016 Stumpy (a bit too small). I’m still intrigued and maybe I’ll build another with a more suitable frame.

I’m tempted to just sell the Stumpy or see if I can sell the frame and buy a nice hardtail (Stif Morf, P7 etc).

to be honest, I think BTR have it right with a hardcore hardtail. Shorter travel forks with aggressive geometry. I’d want to try something like that.

They’re terrible and I totally will be helping you by taking yours off your hands, very cheap.

I just had a look at the BTR page….. I wish I hadn’t.

29″ Ranger and a happy meal please.

Haha andykirk, I think I’m still regretting not going for one when I had the chance instead of being put off hardtails by the Meta…

I hope they are; I am building up a BFe at the moment!

Hardtails are awesome, BFes are awesome, everything is awesome!

I’ve had far too much coffee.

edit- I find the BFe’s best with 130-ish mm forks in the front for general mooching about and trail centre reddery.

edited again- I’ve tried 26+ in the BFe and I’ve gone ‘back’ to plain old 26″ (in a 650B frame) because even though the bigger tyres grip for days I just prefer the sketch and bump of the smaller tyres.

Aggro hardtails can, if not done right, be pigs to climb and dull everywhere other than descending.

This is what I found to be honest. Descending, I didn’t miss the rear suspension much, if at all. I *did* miss it when climbing technical trails though, where it was much harder to keep traction than with a full susser. Not fun and hard work. Flat, non-technical terrain was a chore too, but to be fair it’s a chore on my full susser too :lol:

In summary, I enjoyed my “hardcore hardtail”, but largely because it was a much more capable descender than I expected. It wasn’t quite the all-rounder I thought it might be.

I had an early steel 456.. built on a budget.
I rode it mostly at 110mm travel.

I could clatter down anything that Dartmoor threw at me, back end sliding and skipping about.. I always felt like I was on the edge and it was a total hoot. A total hooligan tool to be used and abused as hard as poss.
Not being the fittest I struggled to keep up on the ups.
Cos it was such a capable little thing, I naturally assumed that more travel would equal more fun, but with anything more than 130mm it handled like a total pig, I started bailing out regularly on steep DH stuff due to the excessive unbalanced travel, and quickly fell out of love with it.

Long travel on hardtails just doesn’t make sense to me. Riding the front wheel suddenly becomes riding a pogo stick.

I’ve only ever ridden ‘trail’ (=’hardcore’?) hardtails.

Obviously they are a blast, and you will probably notice a bigger difference moving from an XC hardtail to a trail hardtail than you would moving from a ‘trail’ hardtail to a full suss.

Yunki’s note about travel is a good one, though.

My last two bikes have run the same 140mm fork and I have really enjoyed both of them, but for most of my local riding (twisty and moderately sloped woods with some techy bits) my 120mm Reba running Evo 2 26er was probably my favourite bike.

Smashing down rocky, open stuff in the Peaks is easier on a 140mm fork than it was on a 120mm, but everything is a compromise and I found the 120mm fork more immediate and it made the ride much snappier.

If anyone knows where my lovely Evo2 is (lovely red with splodges of pillarbox red where I covered up chips), please let me know – and can you lend me some bombers to use on the scrote who nicked it?

To be honest, my first bike about 3 years ago was a Voodoo Hoodoo. I literally upgraded everything (ended up with a factory fox 32 120mm on the front).

I remember that being far more fun and capable than the 160/150mm Meta.

I can imagine 120/130mm hard tail with good geometry will be ace! I hate this thread! :)

Lots of hardcore hardtail musings from me here:

Bird Zero AM review (warning, bicycle content)

Quick summary – too much reach and slackness made it less fun than shorter and steeper (it’s still a pretty long slack bike). 150mm fork feels better than 140 or 130, contrary to my original expectations – but with that long fork the bottom bracket is still very low and seat angle very steep, so it shreds berms and climbs well.

Isn’t a hardcore hardtail just like a full suspension bike with a lockout rear shock? Or am i missing something?

Genuine question, not trying to annoy although I guess by no one replying ppl assumed so…

we have 2x HHT (Orange Crush) but wondered what is the difference if the same geo on a FS bike with a lock out rear shock?

IMG_20170712_152819495 by Emmber[/url], on Flickr

P1030210 by Emmber[/url], on Flickr