All frontline NHS to be double jabbed to keep a job

consultant came across as a “proper knob”.

An absolute bellend and doesn’t represent any of the consultants who I know.

An absolute bellend and doesn’t represent any of the consultants who I know.

Wonder what his colleagues honestly think? At what point does saying that on the national news, undermining the entire basis of the NHS covid response, become bringing his profession into disrepute?

A long long way from what he has said or done to reach that point

A long long way from what he has said or done to reach that point

I wouldn’t play down the significance of his comments. They are totally at odds to what is now the central strategy to deal with the most serious global health crisis in over a hundred years.

A strategy which has been strongly adopted by the World Health Organisation, and as far as I know every single nation on Earth.

I consider that to be fairly serious.

A long long way from what he has said or done to reach that point

Maybe it shouldn’t be.

don,t get me wrong – I think anti vax folk are idiots.  My concern is just over the secondary effects that will come from compulsory vaccinations ie the loss of staff that are very much grouped in pockets and also the huge pressure on folk to take vaccinations under duress is both illegal and unethical

Seriously, I’d rather someone like that wasn’t treating me or my family. I’d have no faith in anything he told me, no matter what his area of specialism.

Few weeks back, as Omicron was emerging, I was listening to a S African doctor talking about it to a BBC journo on the radio.
He was coughing a wee bit and the journo said “oh dear, hope you don’t have it” or words to that effect.
Doc replied, “yes, I have it but I am fine, just feels like a cold.”

He then reeled off his COVID experience.
Alpha in spring 2020.
Double jabbed over the summer.
Delta autumn 2020
Boosted late 2020
Omicron a few weeks later.

Would I prefer the care of the Sky news ‘antivax’ doc or the triple jabbed and triple Covided doc?
Don’t think I’d be too fussed either way tbh, and can’t fathom why anyone else should be.

Sorry bedmaker but what’s your point exactly? Are you saying that the jabs don’t provide protection from covid?

I was wondering what it was that he was actually referring to:

1. Covid vaccines don’t work – they don’t stop you getting it but do massively reduce severity.
2. Vaccines don’t stop you spreading it – true but I think we know that, the science is clear.
3. Side effects – plenty of data on that.

The only argument I could see was it doesn’t prevent transmission, fair enough, but if he does get it he would be less severe and he’ll be able to return to work faster, which for the NHS is a pretty damned good reason for being vaccinated.

I never said anything about vaccines not working, get a grip.
I said that if be happy with either doctor treating me.
The one who has had COVID once, and appears to have some protection from that, or the one who has had three lots of COVID, and three Vax jabs.
I don’t think either scenario necessarily affects how they do their job, or their chances of harming me while doing so.
Sacking NHS staff for being vax hesitant is mental.

The one who has had COVID once, and appears to have some protection from that

He said he has picked up having had covid due to an antibody test, that’s a long way from any protection. Even if he did the immunity rate from catching it drops of faster than the vaccine. The science does add up the vaccine and boosters offer greater protection.

It’s not his Covid status that would be worrying me, it’s his reluctance to have a jab despite all the evidence it is beneficial for the individual and larger society, especially in a health care setting where reducing severity of illness for health practitioners and getting them back to work is vital. What other strange views might he hold that could impact on my treatment.

I never said anything about vaccines not working, get a grip.

Hence the reason I asked you to clarify what you meant, you angry little man

As above, if he doesn’t agree vaccines are absolutely essential, then what other whack job theories does he adhere to. And would I want someone like that treating me.. certainly not if there was an alternative

you angry little man

That should defuse the situation and help to stop it escalating further!

Btw is the reference to little man based on prior knowledge or is it the assumption that only men are likely to make beds?

What other strange views might he hold that could impact on my treatment.

I have had all sorts of healthcare staff with all sorts of odds views from those who do not understand ethics to those who think ill health is gods punishment to those who are downright ill treating vulnerable patients

.

I assume all frontline NHS staff have to take daily PCR tests? It seems stupid to insist on a negative PCR test for every hospital admission if the staff aren’t subject to the same.

Dunno about now but the unit I worked in we were never tested as a matter of policy – 9 months ago I left there.  I never had a single test at work even when there was an outbreak on the ward.  I could never fathom the reason why.  Our unit tested patients twice weekly but never staff, the sister unit tested staff weekly but never patients ( one rehab, one psychiatric, same building)

We also were told to turn off the test app thingy at work and not to treat work contracts as contacts despite being exposed to known covid all day but outside work any pings on the app and we were told to isolate

made no sense to me as in both situations I was wearing the same type of mask

I could never fathom the reason why.

Was it simply because they didn’t want staff testing positive and having to isolate ?

Did you ever do a lateral flow out of curiosity?

NHS England has been testing twice per week for well over a year, next week it’s daily for patient contact staff. Which of course is impossible without LFT kits.  Patients are LFT tested not PCR I believe on admission.

My wife has been PCR tested on every admission to Raigmore in Inverness these past few weeks, hence my question.

Did you ever do a lateral flow out of curiosity?

I did a PCR once because I wanted to go to a funeral with vulnerable folk there.  work cocked it up and i didn’t get the result in time so I couldn’t go

Never done an LFT, thats the only time I have tested

We were using pcrs at work not LFTs.

Staff are supposed to test twice a week, either LFT or LAMP. There is no one monitoring compliance though. Some wards are better than others. We are now allowing staff with positive household members to treat most patients as long as they are doing daily LFTs.

My wife has been PCR tested on every admission to Raigmore in Inverness these past few weeks, hence my question.

Ah! Maybe I’m mistaken then.

Drac – I think the approach to testing has been very different in Scotland in the NHS.  Unless its changed since I left LFTs were never used.

At present, issuing higher grade masks (FFP2/3) to all NHS staff and banning office sharing whilst we are in the current Omicron surge would be a more scientific and sensible approach, not threatening dismissal for being unvaccinated. For a highly contagious virus which is primarily spread by exhalation and inhalation, where vaccines largely don’t stop spread and LFTs only pick up higher viral titres and not necessarily before someone has managed to infect someone else – patient or staff, why wouldn’t you? Omicron is so contagious that surgical masks are next to useless and cloth even worse. Only wear a higher grade mask here to reduce my risk of getting or giving it and particularLy to reduce the risk of a higher viral load.
The NHS are still issuing the same old IPC guidance, thinking daily LFTs are the answer (not even recommending throat swabbing for LFTs) and then wondering why Omicron is rampant through staff and services are struggling – it’s not because a few staff are not vaccinated its because staff have the wrong PPE and sharing poorly ventilated spaces. Javid has unnecessarily painted himself in to a corner with his threats.

Would it cause many people to leave the NHS? I don’t think so. When the NYPD introduced mandatory vax they has around 1200 threaten to quit over it. When it came to the crunch the number of people that actually quit was single digits.

Would it cause many people to leave the NHS?

About 5% from conversations with colleagues. These potential leavers are mostly a mixture of band 2 to band 4 staff (ie. bloody essential) that are fed up with the poor conditions anyway. They can go and earn the same amount, or more, in lots of other settings without the barrage of abuse and increasingly unreasonable demands.

I very much doubt 5% but the problem is its concentrated in certain areas both geographically and within specialties

@tjagain Greater Glasgow NHS Out of Hours are encouraging but not requiring all staff to lft twice a week.

irc – its 9 months since I left but I note “encourage” not “require”  Personally I see little point in doing LFTs as the false negative rate is so high

I very much doubt 5% but the problem is its concentrated in certain areas both geographically and within specialties

Possibly correct; I can only comment on my direct interactions with those in the same Trust, although we work across a few, similar, specialities.
Our Trust isn’t one of the better ones. We are already working at close to 20% fewer staff than specified… not much wriggle-room left!

LFTs are twice per week for us btw. Never checked up on, although I think most of us are keeping up with them.

LFTs twice a week in the trust I work for. We came close to running out of tests early midweek but I understand that’s sorted now.

I thought it was only knuckle draggers that didn’t want the vax. Apparently it isn’t, but they must be a knob anyway…

Same for our health dept. Boosters mandated.

Also… Proof of Vax before going to a club or bar…. But not needed if you’re going to an afl game with say, 5000 others. I would say “you can’t make this 5hit up”. But apparently you can.

Knuckle draggers and people with university degrees are not mutually exclusive.

Sacking NHS staff for being vax hesitant is mental.

Arguably NHS staff being Vax hesitant in the middle of a global pandemic is mental.

In the case of the consultant he is telling a bunch of vaccination and public health specialists they are wrong, on national TV, challenging a politician with complex medical questions instead of his own profession

I would argue if the GMC don’t pull him in for an interview without coffee they aren’t fit for purpose

At present, issuing higher grade masks (FFP2/3) to all NHS staff and banning office sharing whilst we are in the current Omicron surge would be a more scientific and sensible approach, not threatening dismissal for being unvaccinated

FFP3 masks in all clinical areas for all staff and everywhere for anyone with increased risk score (immunocompromised etc). Surgical masks mandatory on site for all staff and mandatory in the buildings for everyone. Shared offices are avoided where possible and where not possible the perspex screens are still in situ from previous waves. Don’t know about other trusts but I expect their measures are similar.