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I won't take it unless... I change my mind on the day. I will, however, go for the regular flu jab at Asda - £8 without waiting (or £15 at Tesco last time I checked). Worked for me whenever I had it.
Thank you Graham S for your graph, indeed this shows falling infant mortality due to measles due mainly to increased living standards. What is not mentioned is the infant disabilty caused by measles, this is what the jab is for.
Looking at the WHO statistics we have
[img] 
[/img]
Ref:www.who.int/immunization_monitoring/diseases/big_measles_global_coverage
At lest my graph is referenced unlike the Informed Parent one
There is a well documented phenomenon in psychology that people with irrational beliefs, when presented with evidence of their irrationality do not choose to change their beliefs, rather they become even more entrenched.
I'm a GP, and I'll be having the vaccination, just like I have the seasonal flu jab every year.
did i just hear someone invoke the name [i]Andrew Wakefield[/i] as being unfairly maligned by big pharma companies
the same Andrew Wakefield who announced to the world and the daily mail that the tripple mmr vaccine was unsafe without declaring his financial involvement in the company that produced the single jabs??
drugs companies may be money grabbing cappitalist scum but what that man did is an insult to the thousands of research scientists and healthcare workers in this country
if mountaincarrot wants to deny his kids potentially lifesaving vaccinations that is sad but its darwinism in effect imho
There is a well documented phenomenon in psychology that people with irrational beliefs, when presented with evidence of their irrationality do not choose to change their beliefs, rather they post the same thing twice 😉
Kramer you edited thats not fair 😥
See never trust a GP
Of course I would have the injection if required.
if mountaincarrot wants to deny his kids potentially lifesaving vaccinations that is sad but its darwinism in effect imho
Sadly his choices affect us all. His children will be protected by the fact that most other children they come into contact with [i]will[/i] have been vaccinated, but if enough people refuse vaccination then we won't maintain effective [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity ]"herd immunity"[/url], the virus will re-surface and even those that have been vaccinated will be at risk.
So his beliefs and decisions put your kids at risk too. Nice huh?
the virus will re-surface and even those that have been vaccinated will be at risk.
Without meaning to be facetious, how are those vaccinated still at risk, and is the level of risk life-threatening?
Personally I'm dubious about the vaccination: I rarely get the annual 'flu (every 2 years on average, and it lasts 3 days) and never had the 'flu jag. I'm concerned about the additional H5N1 element to the existing 'flu vaccine which hasn't been tested over the long term, and is a reaction to a virus which only emerged in 2009.
I'm in good health and not at risk of dying if I do catch it. All the reported deaths 'have had underlying health issues' and many have been old, as far as I believe.
[i]I rarely get the annual 'flu (every 2 years on average, and it lasts 3 days)[/i]
3 days!! That's not flu.
I can't contract Swine Flu, I'm a penguin.
hehe, sorry I meant man-flu 😉
Well, I never have it diagnosed but it's the worst type of illness I get that seems like everyone else's flu, so I guess it must be. I just stay in bed and sweat it out and I'm over it in 3 days.
[i]"Big Pharma" Sorry Andy. That was indeed bad and very lazy. Perhaps I should read Daily Mail - then it would all be black and white.
Substitute " Wyeth, Novartis, Baxter Biosciences, Sanofi Pasteur MSD, GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, Sanofi Pasteur MSD, Aventis Pasteur MSD", Must be more but I ran out of ideas.. [/i]
'pharmaceutical companies' would cover this nicely without resorting to Daily Mail catchphrases, and would help people to believe that perhaps you might be talking a little bit of sense. HTH.
I just don't think the risks are worth it.
It seems poorly tested. In America, the vaccine used to get FDA approval [b]isn't[/b] the one that will actually be administered. That seems very odd.
Then there's the other ingredients - Mercury, Aluminium, forms of antifreeze, etc which are hugely toxic.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/06/Why-You-Should-NOT-Vaccinate-Your-Children-Against-the-Flu-This-Season.aspx
Someone told me about this guy the other day:
http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/VaccineOffer.htm
Apparently the offer has been there for a several years without anyone taking him up on it yet (the money amount rises slowly).
Anyway - I just don't see that a few days of feeling ill is worth injecting stuff like this.
I've never considered taking the seasonal one, so I don't really see why this is any different.
Without meaning to be facetious, how are those vaccinated still at risk, and is the level of risk life-threatening?
Vaccination of an individual is not 100% effective. You can be vaccinated and still contract the virus you were vaccinated against. And viruses can mutate to the point that vaccines are not effective.
The point of vaccination is to raise "herd immunity" to a level that the virus cannot spread effectively through the population. (i.e. it is a social solution, rather than individual one). If this happens then the virus will die out. This is how smallpox was eradicated.
Unfortunately the herd immunity threshold for measles is around 83-94% (according to the CDC/WHO) so scare stories like MMR and websites like "Informed Parent" seriously jeopardise the population as a whole.
As to risk: well this discussion has strayed into MMR and the general topic of vaccination, where the risks are quite considerable. The risks from swine flu so far seem to be fairly minimal.
I rarely get the annual 'flu (every 2 years on average, and it lasts 3 days) and never had the 'flu jag
That's an annual cold, not flu.
I'm concerned about the additional H5N1 element
All Influenzavirus A is described as a H[i]x[/i]N[i]y[/i]. H5N1 is actually bird flu. [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H1N1 ]Swine flu is H1N1, the same as the 1918 Spanish Flu[/url] which is why it raised such concern when it appeared. But the "additional H1N1 element" is not new.
nah, it's all a government plot to take our minds off the mess the country is in............swine flu is just an excuse for having two weeks off work without having to get a doctors certificate......
Then there's the other ingredients - Mercury, Aluminium, forms of antifreeze, etc which are hugely toxic.
Read the back of your next pack of crisps or ready meal and I'm sure someone on here will be able to tell you which ingredients are highly toxic and present in anti-freeze, industrial cleaner etc.
Anyway - I just don't see that a few days of feeling ill is worth injecting stuff like this.
Depends on your risk factors really. As I said, my wife is pregnant and diabetic so the consequences of her catching it are higher. And she is a doctor, so the risk of her being exposed to it is also higher.
The Department of Health estimate that 15% of people catching it will need medical assistance, 2% will be hospitalised and 0.1-0.35% may die (e.g. between one in 1,000 and one in 300 patients).
So potentially more than a "few days of feeling ill", but arguably no more of a risk than normal flu.
That's an annual cold, not flu.
In that case I'm naturally immune to 'flu. No need for me to be vaccinated then.
But the "additional H1N1 element" is not new.
I stand corrected regarding H5N1/H1N1. But I thought the whole debate was that the current vaccination was a new one for swine flu, and many people are worried over the side effects of a new and relatively untested vaccine. Is this not the case?
and many people are worried over the side effects of a new and relatively untested vaccine. Is this not the case?
No it's not the case. The influenza virus is, generally, well understood and this vaccine is no different to normal flu vaccines which change every year and there isn't this sort of panic. The media has a lot to answer for.
Another point on the whole TOXINs thing is that to state that something is toxic is meaningless unless you also quote at what level it is present and how that relates to the safe dose. Many things essectial to life are toxic at high doses.
a new and relatively untested vaccine
Funnily enough, there is a bit more urgency than usual in this case. The 1919 pandemic of H1N1 flu killed tens of millions of people - more than World War 1. The death toll from swine flu in the UK is currently about 80, but you'd be very naive to think that won't increase. Everyone I've spoken to who's had the current version of swine 'flu says it properly knocked them for 6 - the manager of my LBS, who isn't exactly a wheezy tubber, had post-viral complications too.
Currently, the licensing has been postponed so it can be tested in trials involving a further 9,000 people for each vaccine. That's a fair few more people than are involved in most medical trials.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/sep/25/swine-flu-vaccine-uk
In that case I'm naturally immune to 'flu. No need for me to be vaccinated then.
Possibly, though more likely you just haven't caught it yet. [url= http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/flu/Pages/Introduction.aspx?url=Pages/What-is-it.aspx ]The number of people who consult their GP with flu-like symptoms is usually between 50 and 200 for every 100,000 people[/url].
But even if you are immune to normal seasonal flu, H1N1 is a different strain which you won't be immune to.
I thought the whole debate was that the current vaccination was a new one for swine flu
It is new, but it will be largely based on existing well-tested vaccinations for other similar flu strains.
this vaccine is no different to normal flu vaccines
Really?
Someone told me about this guy the other day:
http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/VaccineOffer.htm
Apparently the offer has been there for a several years without anyone taking him up on it yet (the money amount rises slowly).
Scaremongering rubbish like this makes me very annoyed. You might as well offer $1 million for someone to crush up an aspirin and inject it intravenously.
Nevertheless, the fact that he's prepared to offer $200,000 shows that some people have become very rich from fostering distrust of the medical profession. Not bad for something that, unlike "big pharma", never actually cures anyone.
Even water is toxic at high levels.
Interestingly don't think I've ever had flu in my entire 28 years on this rock. I've had a few bouts of 1 or 2 days of fever and shivers but nothing that'd count as flu AFAIK. Maybe I'm impervious!
Arguably, "Big Pharma" relies on public distrust of vaccinations.
After all, there is no long term profit in completely eradicating viruses. You need to keep it ticking over.
Therefore I conclude that mountaincarrot is actually an agent of Big Pharma 😀
there is no long term profit in completely eradicating viruses. You need to keep it ticking over.
Viruses tend to be quite good at that themselves. As Peter Medawar said, they're a piece of bad news wrapped in protein.
Just got a flue jab offer at work.
According to the associated bumf, not only can flu be deadly, but it can also ruin your Christmas plans!
mee too, I don't think I've ever had it but as said above, having been royally ****ed over twice recently by seasonal colds twice recently, I'm keen to not end be the 1 in 300 or 1 in 1000 that might die from it.
AlexSimon -
[i] http://www.spontaneouscreation.org/SC/VaccineOffer.htm [/i]
Did you actually read the conditions attached to the offer?
No-one took him up on it because no reputable professional would give the time to take 2 exams set by the challenger (pass marks 100%, 90%, ,to be marked by the challenger), get certified sane, etc etc etc - It's an impossible task if you look at it closely
Just got a flue jab offer at work...
...it can also ruin your Christmas plans!
Presumably if you vaccinate your flue then Santa can't visit?
Moses - yes that does look strange - the stuff about reading lots of anti-vaccination books and being tested on them.