If you have 20 houses, one owner voted Tory and the other 19 didn't vote, would it be fair to say that most of them voted Tory without further qualification?
What if 57% of them voted Tory, which is the actual figure? Anyone can just make up totally different scenarios to suit their argument, it proves nothing.
Perhaps you might want to look into the definition of the word 'tend' also.
What if 57% of them voted Tory, which is the actual figure?
What if 43% of them voted Tory, which is the actual figure for mortgage holders? Without further detail one could argue that mortgage holders tend not to vote Tory and it would be true.
Anyone can just make up totally different scenarios to suit their argument, it proves nothing.
And that's precisely my point. If you'd posted the stats in the first place rather than an inflammatory half-truth, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.
Is it the home ownership or the age which is the cause of the Tory swing? Generally older people tend to vote Tory and also you’re more likely to own a home the older you are.
It says as much in the article Grum linked, yes.
What about a programme about Johnson’s relationship with the truth which contains no examples of him lying, despite him having been sacked from two jobs for lying?
Sure that's a valid example, but you've got to weigh it against another story that suggests she shouldn't meet actual politicians, So of a list of 5/6 "so called" bias, actually only one and perhaps two at most show any sort of bias at all, ... Suddenly the story goes from on the face of it, quite strong, to with just the tiniest of googling, a bit lame.
like I said; Nick Robinson was an actual student leader of the Tories...and gets a free pass? weird.
What if 43% of them voted Tory, which is the actual figure for mortgage holders?
That might be relevant if I'd made any claims about mortgage holders.
If you’d posted the stats in the first place rather than an inflammatory half-truth
Inflammatory half-truth? Lol. You really don't like being wrong do you.
I made a claim, then backed it up with stats, and you've decided to argue with me for no apparent reason.
Without further detail one could argue that mortgage holders tend not to vote Tory and it would be true.
Except that you did have further detail didn't you.
Sure that’s a valid example, but you’ve got to weigh it against another story that suggests she shouldn’t meet actual politicians, So of a list of 5/6 “so called” bias, actually only one and perhaps two at most show any sort of bias at all
To you. As I said earlier; there's none so blind...
Considering the % of people (and therefore mortgage holders) that didn't vote at all, 43% of the total (not of voters) would make that well over 50% of mortgage holders who voted ticked the Tory box, a much higher % than of the total voting population.
Indeed. And given that I said 'tend' to vote Tory not 'mostly' (which appears to be what I said in Cougar's mind)...
tend
regularly or frequently behave in a particular way or have a certain characteristic.
There's nothing remotely inflammatory or inaccurate about what I said. 🤷♂️
To you. As I said earlier; there’s none so blind…
If you post six stories which you claim show bias, and it turns out that, one maybe two of them could be viewed as bias, one of which could have nothing to do with Kuenssberg (how a programme is edited together) then objectively, you've not proved your case. So if the charge is being blinkered...you're as guilty as everyone.
So if the charge is being blinkered…you’re as guilty as everyone.
You'd like that. Sadly for you, it's not true. In your own words:
actually only one and perhaps two at most show any sort of bias at all
Even if it were only one or two, any bias is still against BBC guidelines. As a public funded state broadcaster, they have to be impartial, otherwise it's just a propaganda machine. So you admit that at least one or two charges stick. IE; Keunssberg/BBC are biased. As for Nick Robinson; goes without saying he's biased, but he's not the current BBC political Editor. Keunssberg is. She's biased and you know it.
Even if it were only one or two, any bias is still against BBC guidelines
Sure, In a career as Political Editor since 2015, that 's one instance while being on telly nearly every day, often doing multiple broadcasts over many hours of the day and night, and you've managed to find one (perhaps two) that show anything at all that could be biased. That's not exactly damning evidence.
Mleh, I couldn't care less, I'm far from a fan, but seems to me there's other things going on that mark her out to you as deserving as a special target when by any account her performance is no better or worse than most other political reporters on any of the other major networks. You think she's biased, I don't think you've proved your case.
That might be relevant if I’d made any claims about mortgage holders.
So you're saying that mortgage holders aren't homeowners?
I made a claim, then backed it up with stats
You made a claim, then when asked you backed up an entirely different claim with stats. We've gone from “homeowners tend to vote Tory,” to "homeowners who have paid for their houses outright tend to vote Tory more than they tend to vote Labour." Likely for the reason footflaps mentioned earlier, the largest common denominator is age.
Oh, I give up. Whatever.
Mleh, I couldn’t care less
Really? 😀
but seems to me there’s other things going on that mark her out to you as deserving as a special target
In your head. That's all.
So; why not have social/keyworker housing, state owned, with revenues going directly into the public purse rather than private pockets? When such existed, housing was far more genuinely affordable. It’s rental properties only being in private hands, that exacerbates the issue.
You can have both, in fact we still do have council housing (just not that much anymore). Plus there are more than just "social/keyworker" who need housing. Being a private landlord, providing a valuable service which people need does not automatically make someone a 'bad person' nor ban them from being allowed to have left wing views. Automatically assuming they are right wing just shows blinkered thinking.
Can't recall who it was but someone posted something about "there’s none so blind…" maybe that was what they meant by it?
the largest common denominator is age.
Almost impossible to separate it all out, if you're older you're more likely to have a pension, more likely to own a home, probably more likely to worry about crime etc. So many things correlate with age it's not as simple as just home owner = Tory....
Being a private landlord, providing a valuable service which people need does not automatically make someone a ‘bad person’ nor ban them from being allowed to have left wing views. Automatically assuming they are right wing just shows blinkered thinking.
Er, care to point out where that's actually happened?
Can’t recall who it was but someone posted something about “there’s none so blind…” maybe that was what they meant by it?
Just going to bask in the wonderful, beautiful irony of this... 😀
In my socialist democratic utopia I'd ban private landlords. Yes, people need to rent, but that can be provided by the state. All essentials should be provided cheaply (or free) by the state at a basic decent level. But you can still earn money and get better stuff if you want.
All essentials should be provided cheaply (or free) by the state at a basic decent level.
You don't need to wait, you can provide me with all my essentials right now without any political change required at all. Monthly payment by PayPal, suit you?
Utopia for you and I. The others can catch up when they see the benifits of our system
The others can catch up when they see the benifits of our system
On the contrary......maybe you'll catch up. Been there, done it...USSR...North Korea....Cuba....etc. a pile of over 100 million bodies to prove it and poverty of the kind we can't even imagine. Don't give me any of the usual tosh around 'we'd do it differently' because you really really wouldn't.
On the contrary……maybe you’ll catch up. Been there, done it…USSR…North Korea….Cuba….etc. a pile of over 100 million bodies to prove it and poverty of the kind we can’t even imagine. Don’t give me any of the usual tosh around ‘we’d do it differently’ because you really really wouldn’t.
I think we need to give it one last chance.
Molegrips can fund me. I'm positive that if we do that for say, my lifetime, the world will see from our happiness how brilliant the system is.
...and if the world doesn't, well at least Molegrips and I will have lived the dream.
As mentioned much earlier in the thread have a look at Singapore for government controlled social housing. They appear to be making a success of it.
The others can catch up when they see the benifits of our system
On the contrary……maybe you’ll catch up. Been there, done it…USSR…North Korea….Cuba….etc
That's not what I'm advocating, clearly I don't want a communist state because I'm not an idiot or a megalomaniac. A really shit rebuttal, if you want to sound clever you'll need to come up with a much better argument than that.
You don’t need to wait, you can provide me with all my essentials right now without any political change required at all. Monthly payment by PayPal, suit you?
Sure, if you let me tax everyone in the country and businesses and stuff.
You don’t need to wait, you can provide me with all my essentials right now without any political change required at all. Monthly payment by PayPal, suit you?
Sure, if you let me tax everyone in the country and businesses and stuff.
That's a 'no' from you then, and I think 'everyone in the country' will take the same view as you.
That idea didn't last long. 🙂
More LK impartiality news: Telegraph journalist Dominic Penna tweeted that LK and Gove had a dance-off/rap battle to Ice Ice Baby late night at a karaoke bar - someone asked if it was true and he confirmed it was. He's now deleted the tweet and says it never happened. 🤨
That proves that in a social setting after they have finished working in the same venue they are able to be civil. I've probably sung karaoke with a Tory at some point too
Going by Pennas twitter account 'no shapes had been thrown'
Journos rub shoulders with politicians as much as they can, that's their job.
Do you reckon she sat in her hotel room and didn't talk to anyone at the Labour Party conference? (In fact I know she didn't there was a massive daily mirror party at least IIRC.)
Do you reckon Owen Jones sat in his Hotel Room at the Tory Conference? Or do you think he was out and about talking to and socializing with Torys all week getting the inside picture? Is Owen Jones a Tory Stooge.
If you want news from someone who doesn't know any politicians whatsoever I am happy to provide you with a weekly e-mail update. It will be quite short.
I’ve probably sung karaoke with a Tory at some point too
Your worse than Hitler
More LK impartiality news:
At the same event...Lewis Goodall was singing Karaoke as a duet with a minister...and Nick Robinson was seen there, as was Robert Peston. Again, it seems there's some motive other than what she does, when folks single LK out for special treatment . She does the same things that all other political editors do...but only she seems to get criticized.
Mind you, now I think about it, I once bought a Conservative councillor lunch* so god knows what that makes me.
*I think it was an Egg Mayo Sandwich
She does the same things that all other political editors do…but only she seems to get criticized.
Maybe because she's the chief political editor of BBC news? With a track record of overly cosy relationships with the Tories.
Anyway I was more pointing out the unusual sequence of events in terms of tweeting, confirming, then deleting and denying.
I know you're trying to imply some kind of sexist agenda that's not there, so go you.
I’ve probably sung karaoke with a Tory at some point too
Are you the chief political editor of the supposedly impartial national broadcaster?
Going by Pennas twitter account ‘no shapes had been thrown’
What do the deleted ones say?
I know you’re trying to imply some kind of sexist agenda that’s not there, so go you
Mleh, you're the one who constantly singles her out, not me. Perhaps you need to examine your own motives at bit more closely?
Maybe because she’s the chief political editor of BBC news?
Are you saying that was your reason for singling LK out?
If so, why should being CPO of BBCN require lesser access to politicians? I'd have thought it should command *more* access.
Perhaps you need to examine your own motives at bit more closely?
Perhaps you need to stop making snide insinuations about other people's motives.
Are you saying that was your reason for singling LK out?
It makes her impartiality (or lack thereof) more important, obviously.
Plus it's literally whataboutery to say 'yeah but what about Nick Robinson, eh' when discussing things she does.
So now we have whataboutery, and a nice kind of straw man/ad hominem combo, rather than engaging with the actual issue. I really wonder why I bother with these political threads when this is the standard of debate.
Are you the chief political editor of the supposedly impartial national broadcaster?
And that's the crux of it; if you are supposed to be 'impartial', then cavorting with senior tory figures isn't a very good look, is it? If anyone can provide evidence of her doing similar with other political parties/groups, then it would be good for balance here, surely?
Mleh, you’re the one who constantly singles her out, not me. Perhaps you need to examine your own motives at bit more closely?
Classic tactic of attempting to divert attention by making unfounded/false accusations and insinuations. If you have any proof of this 'sexism', then again, let's see it.
Perhaps you need to stop making snide insinuations about other people’s motives.
Says the man who's constantly accused a journalist of bias without producing any evidence at all? Good grief, I know nobody's ever "wrong" on the internet, but your double think here is pretty strong.
Plus it’s literally whataboutery to say ‘yeah but what about Nick Robinson, eh’ when discussing things she does.
Nick Robinson literally has the same job as she does, as does Peston, Coates and dozens of others...It's legitimate comparison to other journalists doing the same things, speaking and spending time with the same group of politicians and advisors. It's a bit unhinged really, like you've decided she's some sort of mad villain.
If you have any proof of this ‘sexism’, then again, let’s see it.
Given that you consistently single out the only political editor with a vagina, I'll draw my own conclusion
If anyone can provide evidence of her doing similar with other political parties/groups, then it would be good for balance here, surely?
Well she was talking about the parties she attended at the Labour Conference on Newscast. Pretty sure she mentioned the Mirror Party.
I guess that's LK vindicated as far as you're concerned, great.
Nick Robinson literally has the same job as she does
Does he?
Says the man who’s constantly accused a journalist of bias without producing any evidence at all?
You've been given many clear examples, but you just start waffling on about Robert Peston and calling people sexist instead of engaging with them.
It’s a bit unhinged really, like you’ve decided she’s some sort of mad villain.
Oh cool more ad homs and an implication of mental illness. You must have a really strong argument.
Given that you consistently single out the only political editor with a vagina, I’ll draw my own conclusion.
YOU'RE the one making an issue of her sex. To me, it's irrelevant.
Well she was talking about the parties she attended at the Labour Conference on Newscast. Pretty sure she mentioned the Mirror Party.
Ok so let's see the evidence then. Still won't remove the fact she's a tory stooge though.
Oh cool more ad homs and an implication of mental illness. You must have a really strong argument.
It's not going well for them, is it? 🙁
Given that you consistently single out the only political editor with a vagina, I’ll draw my own conclusion
It's a very small sample size to be making such unpleasant accusations over isn't it.
Perhaps you need to stop making snide insinuations about other people’s motives.
1. Irony
2. You were asked what your motive was and you came up with something utterly unconvincing. So in a vacuum people guess motives.
Well, she's the only political editor in the country that routinely needs a body-guard. Like I say, I saw the 38 degrees poll while it was online, and I've seen some of the grotesque abuse hurled her way. It's hard to draw much else as a conclusion as to why she, amongst damn near every other political journalist, gets singled out.
Well, she’s the only political editor in the country that routinely needs a body-guard.
That's terrible but has zero to do with me.
Like I say, I saw the 38 degrees poll while it was online, and I’ve seen some of the grotesque abuse hurled her way.
So you are playing the white knight? Cool. Again, awful but nothing to do with me.
It’s hard to draw much else as a conclusion as to why she, amongst damn near every other political journalist, gets singled out.
Show me other leading political journalists displaying such worrying lack of impartiality then, that might make your claim of sexism more convincing.