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To quote:
[i]The admissions came as the FSA published results of the first batch of testing by the food industry, which showed around one in 100 beef products had undeclared horse DNA.
Of 2501 sample results submitted to the FSA by today midday, 29 samples from seven products contained horse DNA of more than 1 per cent of the meat content.
[/i]
So if its 1% or less, then that's ok 😯
I'm not sure what is more annoying, political bullshine or incompetent journalists.
i dont see what the fuss is its all meat, why is eating a horse any worse than a cow
1% is most likely the reliable cut off figure for the DNA test...
DrP
You've got to set the threshold somewhere - DNA tests are so sensitive that they'll pick up much, much smaller trace amounts, so potentially there's a tiny bit of horse in everything.
A bit like how every breath you take contains some atoms breathed out by Genghis Khan.
i dont see what the fuss is its all meat, why is eating a horse any worse than a cow
there is a fuss, because (a) it's illegal to to claim something is one thing when it turns out to be another. If it was sold as horse meat, it wouldn't be a problem, and (b) the horses that have been used in these foods, have been coming from some very dubious sources, it's certainly not the sort of stuff you'd expect to find in a horse butcher in France.
sbd16v - Member
i dont see what the fuss is its all meat, why is eating a horse any worse than a cow
It's not as 'meat' goes, it's the drugs used to treat horses, that they are concerned about getting into the food chain (and the points made above). I think the real point is, that it was sold for 'human consumption' having reached/passed health/safety standards, yet is not what it should be. Remember all those Chinese babies that died, after there milk powder ingredients were substituted for something nasty.. It's smacks of that (or is just 'steps' away)
Think I remember on QI there being a legal amount of insect bodies allowed in our food.
[i]It's not as 'meat' goes, it's the drugs used to treat horses, that they are concerned about getting into the food chain (and the points made above). I think the real point is, that it was sold for 'human consumption' having reached/passed health/safety standards[/i]
Absolutely agree. And not sure if you know but drugs used on animals, especially 'food' animals, are more tightly controlled than those for humans - due to the food 'chain' issue.
it's certainly not the sort of stuff you'd expect to find in a horse butcher in France.
Is it not ?
What's the difference ?
After the media stampede dies down and the public start buying processed frozen beef meals again I think you'll find the big issue will be fraud. Agriculture is big business in Europe, especially so in France (where horsemeat isn't anywhere near as common these days as it used to be), and everytime a horse is slipped into the beef foodchain a cow isn't. Horse is a lot cheaper than beef and farmers don't like being ripped off (especially in France!). The underlying story revolves around money, miss-selling and fraud.
I was in the freezer section in my local French supermarket the other day. They had a notice up in front of the frozen lasagne section.
I thought the wording was absolutely brilliant, totally different from what would be found in the UK. It said something like:
"We would like to inform our customers of a minor problem with certain frozen beef products. Some products have been mis-labelled as containing beef when they may actually contain horse. There is no risk to health from consuming these products, but you may return any previously-purchased products if you wish."
i dont see what the fuss is its all meat, why is eating a horse any worse than a cow
It would be like buying an orange five, only to find out it was an old radiator with some posh stickers on it.
Is it not ?What's the difference ?
z1ppy put it better than me...
It's not as 'meat' goes, it's the drugs used to treat horses, that they are concerned about getting into the food chain (and the points made above). I think the real point is, that it was sold for 'human consumption' having reached/passed health/safety standards, yet is not what it should be. Remember all those Chinese babies that died, after there milk powder ingredients were substituted for something nasty.. It's smacks of that (or is just 'steps' away)
Think I remember on QI there being a legal amount of insect bodies allowed in our food
Some years ago a colleague ordered an ISO standard for OSI but missed off a digit and got sent an ISO standard for cardamoms instead. It went into some detail about the quantity and type of insect bodies that are allowed. Bit of an eye opener, both that our food is not as pure as some might expect and that there are ISO standards for spices.
The specific medicine which is of concern (as far as I am aware...I only listened to a food programme special on Radio 4 about, I'm no expert) is 'bute' or Phenylbutazone -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylbutazone
Bute is a pretty common pain killer for horses. But obviously a dose for a horse would be enough for +10 people.
Its a 'red herring' though, as you'd need to eat the horse for it to affect you - upwards of 1/2 ton.
The specific medicine which is of concern (as far as I am aware...I only listened to a food programme special on Radio 4 about, I'm no expert) is 'bute' or Phenylbutazone -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylbutazone
br />
I heard yesterday (also on the radio) that someone would need to eat 500 burgers containing 100% horse meat (containing phenylbutazone) to reach the daily dose that's safe for humans. It's not cumulative as it passes through our system. So the levels found are not a health risk in any way.
Doesn't make it right that its there, but its a "non issue" in terms of food safety.
Apparently you would have to eat 100% horse meat burgers exclusively for breakfast, lunch and dinner and one for supper every day for years before the Bute caused a health hazard in a human adult, so of little risk. Though my main concern is the quality of the meat from these dubious sources (Horse meat is delicious and we should lift our silly ban on the stuff), and what else are they putting in there? We've already heard about Donkey meat, but DNA testing will only find something that you're specifically looking for. What are they going to find if they start looking for Rat meat?
Having said, it appears that this has been going on for years, if not decades, so it seems we might have been consuming it for years unbeknown to us and I'm not aware of any human becoming ill or dying as a result. I've always been very suspicious of the burgers you buy from burger vans, i'm sure they don't contain alot of beef - but I have them from time to time anyway in full knowledge that i'm probably eating the more nasty and fleshy parts of the animals anatomy - ear lobes, eyelids and other unmentionable things. But I am a big advocate of utilising all of the animal anyway!
What are they going to find if they start looking for Rat meat?
Rat meat? Maybe?
I wonder if they will find any human DNA in their tests? And if they do, will they tell us.
[i]Rat meat? Maybe? [/i]
They ought to have filters to stop them, at least we did in the corn mills 🙂
I wonder if they will find any human DNA in their tests? And if they do, will they tell us.
Either they wouldn't dare test it (because they will be), or they'll put the results down to people nicking their fingers on equipment etc.
On a slight tangent, if you see the way they dispose of 'fallen stock' using the mangle/chomper/thingy, you just now some people have ended up going the same way when they crossed the wrong person.
z1ppy put it better than me...
That doesn't really explain why it's different from horse meat that bought knowingly though ?
actually I can see the point in this statement - the only people eating these products are the people who choose to eat the lowest quality crap available who clearly don't care about what they're putting in their bodies anyway.i dont see what the fuss is its all meat, why is eating a horse any worse than a cow
It's just another thing for the media to jump on and get worked up about.
It's just another thing for the media to jump on and get worked up about.
I agree. Who cares that the peasants are being taken for a ride, serves them right for being dim eh? 😯
, or they'll put the results down to people nicking their fingers on equipment etc.
I would hope not, any food contaminated by human blood is supposed to be destroyed
Apparently you would have to eat 100% horse meat burgers exclusively for breakfast, lunch and dinner and one for supper every day for years before the Bute caused a health hazard in a human adult, so of little risk.
Yep, I have heard that it is in effect completely harmless as you could never eat the the quantity of horse meat that would make bute a health risk to humans.
Which begs the question that if it is so harmless then why is meat from horses treated with bute banned from the food chain ? There is after all clearly no health risks.
the fact that one low quality meat has been substituted for another has made the headlines, despite the fact there's no health risk and no-one can taste the difference. No-one is mentioning the fact that REGARDLESS of whether they contain horse or cow they STILL contain unhealthy levels of salt/fats not to mention hydrogenated fats that DO have serious health implications.Who cares that the peasants are being taken for a ride, serves them right for being dim eh?
No-one is mentioning the fact that REGARDLESS of whether they contain horse or cow they STILL contain unhealthy levels of salt/fats not to mention hydrogenated fats that DO have serious health implications.
That's because that would be a completely different issue, which isn't relevant to the fraud that is being investigated currently.
You must realise that surely.
Of course I do, I'm just saying that the papers have jumped all over something because it gives good headlines whilst ignoring a much more serious issue that's been going on for years.
That's why they call it [b]New[/b][i]s[/i] 😉
I'm just saying that the papers have jumped all over something because it gives good headlines whilst ignoring a much more serious issue that's been going on for years.
Newspapers have never mentioned that junk food is bad for you ? 😀
The point is no-one has had their health harmed by this "scandal" and no-one is affected except the bottom-of-the-barrel meat industry. It really is a non-issue blown out of all proportion. How many people here have been affected by it [b]at all[/b]?
It's a non issue in terms of Public Health. But then again nobody is really claiming any different are they ?
It's a Massive issue in terms of Food Industry Standards.
If you think different, I'm not sure you understand what's been happening.
lol, that's a funny line to use when you consider what goes into these foods [b]legally[/b].It's a Massive issue in terms of Food Industry Standards.
i do, just finding it very difficult to give a shit 🙂I'm not sure you understand what's been happening.
The point is no-one has had their health harmed by this "scandal" and no-one is affected except the bottom-of-the-barrel meat industry. It really is a non-issue blown out of all proportion.
There are ways to be affected beyond having your physical health damaged.
You must realize that surely.
i do, just finding it very difficult to give a shit
Well done you.
Loads of people do care about being lied to about what's in their food though.
And loads of suppliers and retailers car about being defrauded.
On an unrelated note, I have some "titanium" bike bits for sale if your interested.
Of course they may turn out to be any old cheap metal, but I'll charge you for titanium, and tell you that's what it is.
I presume you will be ok with that, it's all just metal at the end of the day right. And it won't be a health hazard or anything.
No, they don't. No-one who is eating these products give a shit about what's in their food, if they did they wouldn't buy them regardless of horse/cow/whateverLoads of people do care about being lied to about what's in their food though.
No-one who is eating these products give a shit about what's in their food
With a Horse as High as yours, you could make a lot of lasagne for the dim witted peasants to put in their troughs 🙄
Anybody see that news item showing a Findus "Lasagne" being spooned out onto a plate?
It looked like baby sick with sheets of melted plastic. Mmmmm, yummy.
Do I care that cheap crap I wouldn't eat without being paid a million quid turns out to have something "wrong" with it? No. If you're shovelling this turd slop into your undifferentiating gobhole, you deserve all you get from it.
Shove THAT up your "high horse".
Ad hominem. You have lost the argument. Thanks for playing, better luck next time. 🙄With a Horse as High as yours, you could make a lot of lasagne for the dim witted peasants to put in their troughs
[i]The point is no-one has had their health harmed by this "scandal" and no-one is affected except the bottom-of-the-barrel meat industry. It really is a non-issue blown out of all proportion. How many people here have been affected by it at all? [/i]
What, and you don't think this issue of fraudulent labeling could affect the Waitrose/Organic/etc (basically anything) stuff you buy?
Grow up.
lol, you have put it better than I could I think 😆Do I care that cheap crap I wouldn't eat without being paid a million quid turns out to have something "wrong" with it? No. If you're shovelling this turd slop into your undifferentiating gobhole, you deserve all you get from it.
When Waitrose or my local butcher starts selling horse labelled up as sirloin steak or top rump please let me know about it. 🙄What, and you don't think this issue of fraudulent labeling could affect the Waitrose/Organic/etc (basically anything) stuff you buy?
good argument, thanks. The debate squad A-team is out in force today.Grow up.
When Waitrose or my local butcher starts selling horse labelled up as sirloin steak or top rump please let me know about it.
So you [b]would[/b] like to be told if what [b]you[/b] are buying is misrepresented ?
But you don't think that people with less money than you should be able to expect the same ?
Just because you've got "less money" doesn't mean mean you have to live on slops. You DO need a sense of taste and a brain, though...