[Closed] What's so good about Apple stuff?

i've met a few apple suppliers through work and I've been impressed by the way they manufacture. Some of my windows laptops (read Dell, Lenovo, Sony) do appear to have been designed and bolted together in the dark, whilst for apple it does seem to be well made.

The problem for apple is that they partly advertise themselves on the basis of luxury, which is divisive in itself.

Some of my windows laptops (read Dell, Lenovo, Sony) do appear to have been designed and bolted together in the dark, whilst for apple it does seem to be well made.

That's only really true of their cheap stuff, for which there isn't really an Apple equivalent. Their higher priced models are well made - we've got quite a few Alienware laptops (which are part of Dell now) as well as decent level Lenovo's and they're all well made. The cheap laptops we've had from Dell and HP do, unsuprisingly, feel cheaply made.

Their higher priced models are well made

This is something that rarely gets pointed out - if you're willing to spend similar dosh then there are some well made Windows equivalents - nice screens, metal case etc. When I got this little 13" in 2014 there was a few models that almost swayed me, the HD size being the main deciding factor. The Retina screen at that point was also slightly ahead of the others, probably not so much nowadays.

without the slightly creepy "cult" feeling you get for free with apple product

Where do you get this'll? Do you have to go to Apple store or is it downloadable?
I didn't get mine with my new MacBook Pro.

so my dad broke his iphone, he's retired, a daily mail reader and also a technophobe.

He has phone insurance so they couriered a replacement out to him, he rang me in a flap about deleting stuff etc as they were taking the broken phone.. 2 mins over the phone and he had the phone wiped, 5 minutes later he had the icloud backup installing on his new phone. can't fault them for stuff like that.

@teasel - you know what's said about windows phones, "there's not an app for that"

2 mins over the phone and he had the phone wiped, 5 minutes later he had the icloud backup installing on his new phone. can't fault them for stuff like that.

What's so good about Apple stuff?

it really winds some people up.

He has phone insurance so they couriered a replacement out to him, he rang me in a flap about deleting stuff etc as they were taking the broken phone.. 2 mins over the phone and he had the phone wiped, 5 minutes later he had the icloud backup installing on his new phone. can't fault them for stuff like that.

My daughter had her Samsung S7 Edge stolen recently and got an S8 Edge to replace it and the same thing happened there - everything was recovered from the Cloud backup, no issues at all.

@teasel - you know what's said about windows phones, "there's not an app for that"

I didn't but probably because I don't use a smart phone. Just a plain ol' PC user here - a couple of rMBP 13 and 15. One for pleasure and one for...uh...musical pleasure.

MrSmith - Member

without the slightly creepy "cult" feeling you get for free with apple product

Where do you get this'll? Do you have to go to Apple store or is it downloadable?
I didn't get mine with my new MacBook Pro.

Among my friends, family & colleagues there does seem to be a thing with owners of Apple products that they frequently try to persuade you that Apple is better.
The slightest mention of anything phone or computer related & off they go asking you why you don't have any Apple stuff & telling you that an Apple something or other would be better.....
It doesn't seem to happen with owners of other devices & it very rarely happens with other 'things'.
The same people don't try to persuade me to swap my Vax to a Hoover, or my Seat to a Renault or my Flymo to a Qualcast because that's what they use.....

I'm sure it's not all users - but there is a definite swathe of Apple owners who this applies to....

So on a par with Android then? Waiting for the impressive bit.

I'm sure it's not all users - but there is a definite swathe of Apple owners who this applies to....

I agree to some extent that Apple fanbouys have an inbuilt App of Smugness, but you don't need to download it because it's already built in to the human IOS.

Some of us grew up in offices using Windows software and went through the pain and anguish of IT bods asking us to "turn it on and off again". So, Windows isn't without its inherent weaknesses is it. But since XP came long it improved immensely, a lot of bug organisations still use it and are reluctant to change because it's just reliable and SME easy fixed.

But those same organisations now are turning to Apple for Digital development, and have been for 5-7yeara now.. It's guide exciting being part of the acceptance that in today's world both platforms are working almost alongside each other.

Skim-read the last couple of pages to catch up. Nowt new over previous Apple threads, so I will contribute what I've contributed before 🙂

I use Apple iMac/MacBook and Windows 10 laptops. I like both and both frustrate me from time-to-time, although I confess that "go-slows" are much more common on my 2011(?) iMac than my newer-but-much-cheaper Dell laptop.

The thing is, I'm sat at my 2011 iMac and it still looks great, the keyboard feels great and the trackpad is as fab as it was the first day I used it. I've never had that sense of pleasure-to-use with any Windows machine. Maybe a similar priced "premium" Windows machine would be just as awesome - and I do like the look of the Surface Studio - but Apple have just hooked me in with their marketing, making me believe they have the premium products. It's been said above, but the other thing I love is knowing that if a need a thingy, I just get the Apple thingy, rather than have excessive and confusing choice. For some people that's a bad thing; for me it's a positive. It makes me a bit sad when Apple rumours suggest a product line being cut.

<Bike analogy alert>For similar reasons I'd rather spend big bucks on a Santa Cruz rather than the same amount on a Trek or a Giant, even though the latter might objectively be better bikes</Bike analogy alert>

<Bike analogy alert>For similar reasons I'd rather spend big bucks on a Santa Cruz rather than the same amount on a Trek or a Giant, even though the latter might objectively be better bikes</Bike analogy alert>

Sounds like you're bang in the middle of the Apple target market then.

Personally I'd rather have a high spec Specialized than a mediocre Santa Cruz, but I'm not much of a brand tart!

As has been noted elsewhere, there is a tendency amongst some apple users to start talking about what their chosen platform will do, without the realisation that most other platforms will do exactly the same.

Apple have an extremely effective marketing strategy that clearly works very well though.

without the slightly creepy "cult" feeling you get for free with apple product

Damn you, autocorrect. (-:

It doesn't seem to happen with owners of other devices

Linux.

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Some of us grew up in offices using Windows software and went through the pain and anguish of IT bods asking us to "turn it on and off again". So, Windows isn't without its inherent weaknesses is it.

But those weaknesses are things of the past.

Should I start judging Apple on MacOS 9? That was flaky, by all accounts. Or when someone recommends a Skoda should I remind them of the pre-VAG ones?

Sounds like you're bang in the middle of the Apple target market then.

lol you're probably right.

Personally I'd rather have a high spec Specialized than a mediocre Santa Cruz, but I'm not much of a brand tart!

The thing is, the mediocre Santa Cruz won't be mediocre. It will still be a great bike and more than enough bike for many, many mountain bikers. Many people will value the brand/image of the SC above the incremental improvements of the objectively better Spesh, which they may not even notice or need. Same thing with Apple and no doubt countless other premium brands who make stuff that isn't objectively better than the competition.

Making a good product is more than just making a good product. A bad product well marketed will always be more successful than a better product badly marketed.

I hate pedi I've text 😆

Can't believe we're actually doing this again.

Can't believe we're actually doing this again.

STW needs an FAQ section

Or when someone recommends a Skoda should I remind them of the pre-VAG ones?

The thing is - irrational as it might be - there are LOADS of people who still relate Skoda to the "bad times". My wife is one of them. It's human nature; unless your preconceived beliefs are regularly challenged they simply will not change. If someone has had a bad experience on Windows followed by a good experience on Apple, the only compelling reasons to reconsider Windows are bad experiences on Apple or money, natch!.

{edit - or a third reason - Windows does something Apple doesn't. I can actually see that happening and winning people back)

Can't believe we're actually doing this again.

Right click on the thing you want to change and follow the instructions.
Is it that different on a Mac?

No idea, I've never used a Mac.

iPhone and iPad only for years.

Regarding the "it just works" thing, and people saying it's "bullshit marketing"

It may well be, for some people. But my mum recently got an iPhone after having a HTC oneM8 and before that she had a windows phone of some type.

She never got to grips with either of the last two as she just couldn't figure out how to do things (despite lots of help and guidance) and as a result used them for calls and texts and almost nothing else.

Three days with the iPhone (first time apple user, and no help from anyone) and she is on Facebook, has set up her iTunes and bought some music, she's getting news alerts from various sources she's chosen, set up her iCloud sharing with other family members etc etc.
She's set up her car Bluetooth for the first time ever. Along with loads of other stuff.
All without the usual frustrating tutorials from other people that she's needed.

I've no doubt for most of us, more tech savvy types, we can do all that on most devices, but she couldn't previously, and now she can.

So for her, it's far more intuitive, and "it just works"

Windows does something Apple doesn't.

Games would be the obvious one I suppose.

I know plenty of people who run Windows alongside OSX on their Mac out of necessity (the Parallels system is pretty bloody slick to be fair). The reverse isn't true.

This is one of the advantages of having the lion's share of the market, Windows is the first platform most people will develop applications for. (The downside of course is it's also the first platform most people will develop malware attacks for).

Windows is the first platform most people will develop applications for.

and iOS is the first mobile OS that people will develop apps for, followed by Android and almost never windows mobile...

So on a par with Android then? Waiting for the impressive bit

Is it though? I was under the impression that apple had this feature far in advance of android having it, and it's a more complete restore.

Maybe android has caught up.

Games would be the obvious one I suppose.

Is that still as big an issue? I'm not a gamer and genuinely don't know the answer, but I see more and more games on the Mac App Store these days. Are those that aren't available for Mac available for a games console? Or, to ask another questions, are there any games that are PC-only?

She's set up her car Bluetooth for the first time ever. Along with loads of other stuff.
All without the usual frustrating tutorials from other people that she's needed.

As for cloud doing Spotify on the plane now, it's the future.

[quote=Cougar ]

It doesn't seem to happen with owners of other devices

Yeah - but that's actually better 😉

We're doing this again because it's almost time for the early rumours for the iPhone8 coming out in September...

[quote=nealglover ]Regarding the "it just works" thing, and people saying it's "bullshit marketing"
It may well be, for some people. But my mum recently got an iPhone after having a HTC oneM8 and before that she had a windows phone of some type.
She never got to grips with either of the last two as she just couldn't figure out how to do things (despite lots of help and guidance) and as a result used them for calls and texts and almost nothing else.
Three days with the iPhone (first time apple user, and no help from anyone) and she is on Facebook, has set up her iTunes and bought some music, she's getting news alerts from various sources she's chosen, set up her iCloud sharing with other family members etc etc.
She's set up her car Bluetooth for the first time ever. Along with loads of other stuff.

Hmm, but I'm not seeing how any of those things are actually easier on iOS than Android - different maybe, but they involve a very similar process on both (BT has already been mentioned - the vast majority of the pain there will be with her car, at least it was for me, on an Android phone you just turn it on and click on the available devices, much the same as with iOS). Something else is different.

Maybe android has caught up.

I've had several android phones on two year contracts. Two years is plenty of time for things to significantly improve.

Three days with the iPhone (first time apple user, and no help from anyone) and she is on Facebook

Pretty sure the FB app is basically the same on all platforms. And HTC - they were terrible when we had one in the house.

Manufacturers can customise Android devices. This is part of the difference here - they can make them significantly worse if they want. So you shouldn't be judging Android vs iPhone, you should be judging HTC or Samsung etc vs iPhone.

genuine LOL at @gofasterstripes! Where did you get my photo from? Keep meaning to dig my (NOS virtually unused, hi-spec Amiga 1200) out. That is the best platform, for sure!!

Is it though? I was under the impression that apple had this feature far in advance of android having it, and it's a more complete restore.

i like the fact that the computers offer low cost of ownership. my post from the MBP thread a few weeks ago.

"people moan about the cost but with the high resale value of the old machine (£650 for a 4 year old laptop) plus the vat off means its will cost less than one days income for each of the next 3 years of its working life, and thats not factoring in its value at the end of the 3 years either.”

from my business point of view it would be idiotic to step outside the apple ecosystem for what i do.
i wouldn’t save any money and my productivity would drop with no gains further down the line. and when i look at the numbers again I’m staggered that something so cheap can be so productive and generate income. if a MBP was double the price (and its resale value went up the same) its still only costing 1.5 days income a year to use.

thats my reasons for ownership, i appreciate there are instances where vanity/desirability and marketing are the big influences not productivity.

the fact people get so wound up about computers is quite amusing though.

Nuts to the computer, I think I want your job.

Hmm, but I'm not seeing how any of those things are actually easier on iOS than Android -

My point is, it doesn't matter if you don't see how it's easier.

SHE does see it.
And for her, it's allowed her to get loads more things done than her old "confusing" android device. Even though she had lots of help with the android device, and virtually none with the iPhone

different maybe, but they involve a very similar process on both (BT has already been mentioned - the vast majority of the pain there will be with her car,

It's the same car. Only the phone has changed.

The obvious conclusion is that it is not the car that was causing any problems.

To be clear. I know how to do all those things on pretty much any device, as would most of us here.

But she doesn't. However with an iPhone, she somehow managed to do al of it herself with no help at all.

I'm not saying Apple are better than Android phones at everything, as I don't really care if they are.

But in this case "it just works" is quite appropriate.

Nuts to the computer, I think I want your job.

He's probably not talking about profit per day (but that wouldn't sound as impressive, and self-aggrandisement is very important to MrSmith).

It's the same car. Only the phone has changed.

The obvious conclusion is that it is not the car that was causing any problems.

Yes, it could have been the phone. But I've had the same thing going from Android to Android.

Point is, you cannot lump all Android phones together, as I said before. And this is probably an issue for Android itself as one manufacturer can produce a piece of crap and any users who buy it will then think Android itself is rubbish.

Same issue for Windows tbh.

Windows, MacOS, iOS, Android etc. Hard to say which is best but without the Apple products the others wouldn't be as good as they are. I use Windows and Android for work and cost reasons but I'm aware that I've indirectly benefitted from Apple's game-raising activities.

There was something on the Radio the other day about Steve Jobs needing an oxygen mask and asking for several examples to be brought so he could chose one that had an acceptable level of "design". He was obviously a fussy bugger but we all benefit from that design obsession to some degree, and only Apple users have to pay for it.

without the Apple products the others wouldn't be as good as they are

Whilst that's undeniably true, I'd suggest that it's unfair to place that accolade solely on the shoulders of Apple. They've been innovative sure - they pretty much invented the tablet market - but the industry cribs ideas from each other all the time. We might never had OSX or Windows if it weren't for Xerox, for instance.

You've seen this in action on this very thread; "my phone is great because it does X!" - "er, my different phone has been doing X for ages."

you cannot lump all Android phones together

Same issue for Windows tbh.

You can tell people they shouldn't lump all Android phones together, but they will. People out shopping for a smartphone or a computer broadly have two choices: Apple or Android and Apple or Windows. You and I both appreciate that Windows and Android are just operating systems, but the OS is useless without the hardware. As many have alluded to, Apple blend both hardware and OS together to make it much harder - nay, impossible - to buy a duffer. That confidence for the buyer is worth the premium.