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What about when it is fact?
as in 'manc scum'
FWIW, I think the so called glory hunter supporters of glamorous clubs have to accept that, regardless of how much passion and support they show for their clubs, their experience will never be the same as so called real supporters. Admittedly, some fans do travel hundreds of miles to Anfield, OT, Stamford Bridge. The reality is that the vast majority don't. It's probably a fair assumption that as a travelling Aston Villa fan, I've probably been to Anfield or OT more times than most Liverpool or Man Utd fans will ever do. If you don't regularly go to see live football matches, you will never truly understand what being a football fan is really about. What it's like to be freezing cold at Oldham or walking the walk of death back to your coach at Tottenham or losing on a cold Wednesday night at some ground that looks exactly like it did in 1897. If you weren't going to live football matches at the time of Heysel or Hillsborough, you will have no idea of what the circumstances were like at those events. Anyone who regularly went to games, knew how those tragedies occured because we'd all been in situations that were so similar but without the final, fatal consequences. As for understanding the game, nothing gives you as much grounding as watching the game live, at the ground, in real time with no replays.
I'm sorry but watching games on TV or reading about them in the newspaper does not give you the experience of a football supporter. Give me the opinion of a season ticket holder at Crewe Alexandra over the opinion of a Man U/Liverpool fan from Basingstoke anyday.
Just my two penneth.
Well said Trailmonkey.
TBH, unless anyone's got something positive to say from this point on, maybe we should all shut up. I suspect this thread now has the potential to descend into needless nastiness. That's not what I intended; it was just meant to be a bit of gentle 'banter'. something that even Man U fans could think 'cheeky git', have a wry smile, and leave it there.
Yeak, that's probably the best thing to do. When Fergie was getting pummelled by Liverpool yesterday, I bet he wished he could do what you're doing - stop the game and take his ball home. 🙄
I'd take the footballing opinion of a girl guide over a Manc supporter any day.
If you don't regularly go to see live football matches, you will never truly understand what being a football fan is really about.
And so we come back to the same, tired old clichéd argument about 'real' fans v 'armchair' ones...
What a load of bollocks. Football is a spectacle, a game used as a form of entertainment, for millions worldwide. The vast majority of footie fans never travel to games. For most, it's financially/logistically unviable. So, we make do with what we've got; the telly, radio, internet, to follow our chosen clubs.
Ok; youse what go to matches regularly; well done. Give yourself a big pat on the back, for being 'real' fans, and being superior to anyone else.
Cheeze, it's like saying, 'if you don't ride every week in the Alps, you're not a proper mountain biker'.
Get a grip. I started this as a bit of fun, but some of you have decided to turn it into your own little attack on us 'armchair' supporters.
Money is what drives football, at the top level, now. If it were only 'real' fans that provided the financial 'support' for their clubs, then most teams would be playing in small stadiums with one stand with a roof. Where would the money for top players come from? Money for training facilities, youth programs? Football is big business, and the 'real' fans are only a small part of it. Man U probbly make more from worldwide shirt sales, than they do from gate receipts. They are a successful club, mainly because they have built up the business side of things, to pay for a bigger stadium, spensive star players, etc. Look to Chelsea's recent 'success', as a perfect example of this. And Leeds United, who spent silly money, and are now languishing in the 3rd division.
To disregard the views and opinions of anyone who does not in any way regularly go to games, is just ignorant. Intelligent 'real' fans of clubs like Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, know that it's the millions of other 'armchair' fans, who help pay for those new players, new facilities, etc. Not forgetting the corporate sponsorship thing. Man U have hundreds of sponsors, all of whom contribute to the club's income.
You ask the 'real' fans of any smaller or struggling clubs, what they think the club needs, to make them more successful, and the answer is always 'money'. Simple as that. Trailmonkey; Villa are having, for them, a good season. They've improved a lot, since that Yank came along with his money. Coincidence? So, you wanna keep it 'real'? Or would you like to see your club in a position to compete with the best? And if, as I suspect, your answer is the latter, then don't knock all the armchair fans who buy the shirts and the commemorative keyrings and the ppv Sky packages, because it's those people as well as yourself, that are helping 'support' your club.
So, as I've proved before, it's armchair 'supporters' like me, that are also contributing to our club's income. Maybe we're not all there on the terraces, like I'm sure most of us would love to be, but we're still kicking every ball, cheering every good pass, booing every mistake.
It's all about enjoying football. I'll continue to watch from my armchair, or the pub, or whatever. And maybe, once in a while, I'll get to see a 'real' game. But I won't enjoy it any less.
Sometimes, I ride up to Hackney Marshes, on a Sunday, to watch a game or two. I'll join the 2 blokes and a dog, in the freezing cold, to watch a bunch of less than physically perfect blokes hoof a ball around a muddy field. Might not be much, but it's as 'real' as I can get. I still enjoy it, loads. it's all footie. It's all good.
Enjoy the game, but don't knock others for enjoying it too.
Anyway, Chelsea V Man City; whaddya reckon? I'm hoping for Chelsea to drop points, of course. Can Man City find a bit of rare form? Can their £32 million striker do the biz, against the likes of that perennial mercenary, Anelka? And will the Villains have what it takes, to keep up the pressure for that all-important 4th place, against 'Arry's ever-improving Spurs?
[i]You ask the 'real' fans of any smaller or struggling clubs, what they think the club needs, to make them more successful, and the answer is always 'money'[/i]
That's sort of the point. You armchair "fans" always seem to be fans of a big rich club. They remember that their granny once went on the Mersey ferry, so they develop a firm allegiance for Liverpool, never Tranmere. Funny, that. I don't see many coaches of "fans" leaving the Islington wine bars for an afternoon at Bury, or Preston North End - just Old Trafford and Anfield.
trailmonkey because you're sh*t at actually playing football your oppinion means nothing.
Plenty of fat useless isiots standing on terraces shouting their "two penneth" about a game they cannot even play.
It's like a virgin giving you tips on sex because they've seen a DVD or watched their mum and dad...
just my 2p 😉
See it's easy this....
[white noise]ssssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhccccccccccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssscccccccccccccccccccccccccchhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...[/white noise]
Bling - playing football and being a football fan are two different things. Obviously the majority of fans are crap at football. But what they know about is the experience of being a football fan, the feeling of looking forward to Saturday, going to the game, etc etc. You may not share that passion - that's your choice. But it's completely different from watching a team on Sky once in a while with your pals in the wine bar.
Avocado; sounds like your Thinking Aid is broken...
DrJ; yes, that does seem to be the case. With me, it's cos Liverpool were the team for some of me mum's relatives, who actually did live on Merseyside, and actually go to games. I love the colour red, and yes, they were a very successful club when I was young. The options were, in local terms, West Ham and Leyton Orient. Or Millwall. Now, seeing as my dad was not about a great deal, and wazzzunt too bothered about footie, I din't get taken to games at those clubs. Imagine the 70s/early 80s. My dad's of Asian origin and appearance. I think those of you that know yer history, will appreciate that him taking me to places like Upton Park and the old Den, at that time, might not have been too pleasant an experience for either of us.
So, Liverpool it was. I dare say, had me mum's family been Coventry City supporters, I may have been a Sky Blues fan. But they were Liverpool supporters, so for me, it was Liverpool.
I probbly woon't get this much flak if I were a Cov fan. Sympathy, maybe...
If you need that knuckle dragging tribal thing in you life, you go for it.
I'd rather watch it down the pub with my mates and have some banter with the opposition supporters, not have to be seperated from them for safety.
If you think you get kudos from anyone for standing in the rain chucking coins at the away supporters and eating pies you're very much mistaken 😉
Now playing on a Saturday or Sunday morning for the local pub in the sleet and snow in January with a hangover? I'll give you more kudos for that.
[i]So, Liverpool it was. I dare say, had me mum's family been Coventry City supporters, I may have been a Sky Blues fan.[/i]
Maybe. Or maybe you'd still have been a Liverpool "fan".
Bling - I think times have changed. The only violence I've seen at a football match was lunatic Middlesbrough police attacking away fans that gave them lip. Oh - and my Dad spilling Bovril on me after jumping up when Sheff Wed scored.
Playing? Ive got a game tomoz night, actually. I'm really looking forward to it! My goal scoring form has been good, lately. Im a bit like Fernando Torres. Well, no, I'm not, really. I'm a bit crap. 4 in the last 2 games, mind, and 3 assists. But I love it. I'll keep playing until I can't any more.
I'm not going in goal, though. I've got a bad finger, and a note from me mum.
I'm not going in goal, though. I've got a bad finger, and a note from me mum.
Karma. 😉
I think we now have a number of points to conclude.
Q) Do you have to support your "local" team
A) No
Reason) Teams are no longer "local" they are owned by foreigners and have a multinational squad of players, in some cases the star player being born and bred on the locality of your most bitter rival
Q) Does coming from the city of the team you support give your argument more weight?
A) No
Reason) See above
Q) Does standing on the terrace every available weekend give your argument more weight?
A) No
Reason) If every supporter had a ticket the ground would have to hold 100,000,000+ supporters.
Q) Does actually being good at football and playing at a reasonable level give your argument more weight?
A) No
Reason) *see the punditry of lawrenson, Shearer, Redknapp, Dixon et al
Q) What's the point of all this?
A) A bit of banter, shame some can't take back what they dish out 😉
DrJ - a fellow Owl? Hope so!!
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lol - I was in the audience at the beeb when that sketch was filmed.
Hang on Blingboy
"trailmonkey because you're sh*t at actually playing football your oppinion means nothing.
Plenty of fat useless isiots standing on terraces shouting their "two penneth" about a game they cannot even play.
It's like a virgin giving you tips on sex because they've seen a DVD or watched their mum and dad..."
and then
"Q) Does actually being good at football and playing at a reasonable level give your argument more weight?
A) No
Reason) *see the punditry of lawrenson, Shearer, Redknapp, Dixon et al..."
Your dramatic change of opinion has given me a whiplash!
"Q) Does standing on the terrace every available weekend give your argument more weight?
A) No"
I'd say it does as you're actually there, watching the game in full. Not the edited highlights.
"Q) Does actually being good at football and playing at a reasonable level give your argument more weight?
A) No
Reason) *see the punditry of lawrenson, Shearer, Redknapp, Dixon et al"
I'd say yes, Having played the game at a high level, you have a MUCH better if not intimate understanding of the game. I did my sports science degree (all be it a good few years after leaving school) prompted by the desire to understand the science of football (and other sports) after I failed to make it in the professional game.
"Q) What's the point of all this?
A) A bit of banter, shame some can't take back what they dish out"
I thought it was because the originator had been spouting rubbish again and generally being the [b]small[/b] nuisance that he usually is, again.
Oh dear.
trailmonkey because you're sh*t at actually playing football your oppinion means nothing.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. I didn't at any point say that you had to be good at playing football to understand football.
If you were trying to say that [b]I[/b] didn't understand because I'm no good, I think you'll find that I actually played to a reasonably high standard.
What a load of bollocks. Football is a spectacle, a game used as a form of entertainment, for millions worldwide. The vast majority of footie fans never travel to games. For most, it's financially/logistically unviable. So, we make do with what we've got; the telly, radio, internet, to follow our chosen clubs.Ok; youse what go to matches regularly; well done. Give yourself a big pat on the back, for being 'real' fans, and being superior to anyone else.
I think you'll find that football is pretty available for most fans if they support their local team. Even after I moved to Devon, I still went to matches back in Brum.
As for being superior, no one's trying to claim that. Your post says more about your own feelings of inferiority than anything else.
Anyhow, I don't have to argue with you about it as I have nothing to prove, I have nothing to be upset about. My team might be crap, doesn't matter, they're still my team.
And they're currently losing at home to Spurs.
Hang on- erm, either you have one of they fancy internets 'phones, or you aren't actually at the game. Whichever way, you can't be paying it much interest, if you're on here instead! Armchair fan I may be, but if there's a way I can watch the game, I certainly woon't be on here!
Ha ha! Bit of an 'Own Goal' there, eh?
Back of the net! Nice one mate, made me laugh! What an utterly disloyal 'fan' you are, eh? Abandoning your team like that! 'It's 'fans' like you that are destroying the game you know nothing about football blah blah blah blah...'
Ha ha! That's made me laugh. Nowt like a bit of hypocrisy, eh? Did you even know the game was on?
Barca; resorting to personal insults does not in any way make you any less wrong, you know.
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[[url=
you hear the drums fernando?
I remember long ago another starry night like this
In the firelight fernando
You were humming to yourself and softly strumming your guitar
I could hear the distant drums
And sounds of bugle calls were coming from afar
They were closer now fernando
Every hour every minute seemed to last eternally
I was so afraid fernando
We were young and full of life and none of us prepared to die
And Im not ashamed to say
The roar of guns and cannons almost made me cry
There was something in the air that night
The stars were bright, fernando
They were shining there for you and me
For liberty, fernando
Though I never thought that we could lose
Theres no regret
If I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, fernando
Now were old and grey fernando
And since many years I havent seen a rifle in your hand
Can you hear the drums fernando?
Do you still recall the frightful night we crossed the rio grande?
I can see it in your eyes
How proud you were to fight for freedom in this land
There was something in the air that night
The stars were bright, fernando
They were shining there for you and me
For liberty, fernando
Though I never thought that we could lose
Theres no regret
If I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, fernando
There was something in the air that night
The stars were bright, fernando
They were shining there for you and me
For liberty, fernando
Though I never thought that we could lose
Theres no regret
If I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, fernando
Yes, if I had to do the same again
I would, my friend, fernando...[/url]
I wasn't insulting you, I was making a statement of fact about you. You'd be slightly less irritating if you would drop the rather silly '"wuzznt" etc, rubbish and just just typed your rubbish opinions in english. Do you have to compensate at every opportunity?
Stature is measured in more than size you know. 😛
Stature is measured in more than size you know.
How very true.
Your post says more about your own feelings of inferiority than anything else.
And your need to respond, speaks volumes about your own..
It's all gone quiet over there....
Bloody ell. You lot should start writing epic novels! 😆
Where?
[i]Where?[/i]
Don't worry about it. He's just repeating something he heard on Match of the Day.
[url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/7949841.stm ]I am also looking forward to going to Old Trafford to support my team[/url]
Local hero, that lad.