bigot bingo!
😆
BTW. When's are we changing to fix-term parliaments?
the scary thing about all this, something people never seem to get about human nature. Humans work best when they are working against something.
More is achieved trying to destroy than is ever achieved trying to build.
Yet people take in the anti immigration and anti benefits crap spouted by Labour and the Conservatives. I am not saying it must not be addressed, but maybe we should be looking at why so many people in this country are not in work rather than saying they are all dole scroungers. Maybe something needs to be done to ensure people can develop skills, rather than poaching trained staff from elsewhere.
Look at Hitler an incredible leader, but it was done by focusing on "them", it is their fault that we are where we are. I really would like to see a government say this is what is happening and this is why, but done to the benefit of all and not just as an act of cronyism, of backhanders, jobs for the boys etc.
But for all this too work you need to have a population that understands they are being played and as long as half the population are of below average intelligence what hope have you got.
Anyone think that conflict in the coalition is manufactured to help the Libdems look a little less like amoral sellouts?
[edit] Anyone see the bit on have I got news for you where Clegg is overheard saying to Dave that they need to find something to disagree on [/edit]
as long as half the population are of below average intelligence what hope have you got.
😆
How can half be below the average ? Is that not a contradiction ?
Either way, it's another blinding bingo ball.
Anyone think that conflict in the coalition is manufactured to help [s]the Libdems look a little less like amoral sellouts[/s] [i]people understand how coalitions work[/i]?
FIFY.
But for all this too work you need to have a population that understands they are being played and as long as half the population are of below average intelligence what hope have you got.
Intelligence isn't necessarily a factor, empathy is much more important imo. Doesn't matter if you know you're being played if you only care about yourself, and it doesn't matter if you're being played if you do stuff that helps other people.
One thing that saddens me, is the amount of chyte written on here by clueless numpties banging on about the Tories needing to make 'necessary' cuts in public services, without any idea of the impact of such cuts. Reading the FT on the 8.15 from some rural village to The Big City every day doesn't suddenly make you an expert on the realities of government policies and their impact on society as a whole...
So, the Tories make loads of people in public Sector jobs unemployed. Crime rises as a result. This will require more policing. Oh dear, the police have been cut too. Oops.
Fear of crime increases. Stress increases. Mental illness increases. Physical illness increases. Drug and alcohol addiction increases. The NHS can't cope. There isn't an alternative. The country gets sicker. Money is ultimately needed to put right the mistakes made by making such drastic cuts.
Isn't that the bit where Labour usually come in? Spend loads on shoring up the health service, get things back towards where they ought to be? Then end up with massive debts cos there weren't money to pay for stuff in't first place?
As for Labour needing to borrow such huge amounts to sort out the Tories mess; well, if the Tories had in fact created so much wealth within society, surely stuff like the NHS should be well catered for, no? Wasn't the privatisation of everything under Thatcher going to create loads of money to pay for public services etc?
Meanwhile, the 8.15ers curse cos their train's bin cancelled due to folk ripping up the tracks to flog for scrap to get money to buy food for their families...
Big Society. Great, innit?
We're all in it together, you know...
jobbyheid - Member
Anyone think that conflict in the coalition is manufactured to help the Libdems look a little less like amoral sellouts?[edit] Anyone see the bit on have I got news for you where Clegg is overheard saying to Dave that they need to find something to disagree on [/edit]
Oh totally. Dave can say 'ohhh immigrants' and get the people back who maybe floating towards UKIP before the local elections and Cable can say 'That's not very nice' and have liberals go 'always knew Cable had a backbone!'
We're all in it together, you know...
[img] 
[/img]
[i]But for all this too work you need to have a population that understands they are being played and as long as half the population are of below average intelligence what hope have you got. [/i]
So where are you in that statistic ??
Exactly, Lifer, exactly.
People for whom cuts will have little if any impact on their own lives, banging on about how 'necessary' these cuts are.
But put their taxes up to pay for things rather than have those who really need certain services go without them, and those who have plenty will scream blue murder....
what happened in America only effected us in the way it did because the Labour government allowed under regulation, over exposure and reckless lending by UK banks to continue.
two points your beloved tories deregulated the market and secondly other countries were equally affected by the slump [ though we have a higher % of GDP from finance so perhaps took a bigger hit]Did george praise Ireland and their economy as a good model - how did they do compared to us - you dont like answering questions where reality does not match your view
No, the Tories are not perfect but they do seem to be tackling the problem head on. You may not like taking your medicine but then again who does?
Well it remains to be seen if this medicine will actually work many people , including noble winning economists think it wont. How many times have they changed the expected growth figure so far and always in a downward direction
At least the Tories seem to stand up for the people who want to work
WTF does that even mean they are putting people on the dole 😯 are you claiming labour - there is clue in their name BTW that is rather obvious - dont want people to work 🙄
to build businesses that provide employment and ultimately wealth for the country through exports
Unfortunately they export rather a lot of the wealth they create including the Deputy Chair of this esteemed organisation you support
Labour on the other hand seemed committed to ever increasing house prices
house prices are determined by the market and supply and demand are you suggesting that we tinker with the market
and a benefits culture that rewards no-one but the workshy spongers in our midst.
Rewards .... why not go down a Job Centre and try and live off £60 a week you too can reap these rewards.
Still - the sad thing is though that a lot of people can't see that the cuts the current government are having to make are for the long term good of us all.
what poor people who need these services those people?
I'm guessing that's why the public sector workers are protesting. Maybe they realise that if they get made redundant from the public sector then they will have to go out and get a proper job - a job in the private sector where they might occasionally have to skip a lunch break or have to work a little later than 5pm
yes those lazy people in the NHS,fire, the police and the army are terrified of not finishing at 5 pm and got forbid they dont get to have a 2 hr business lunch on expensese.
you really need to get a grip [grow up are you young?] thinking all public sector workers are lazy is as stupid as thinking all private sector workers work hard [ most of the serial posters on here work in the private sector for example] or they are all heartless capitalist scumbags.
Well that's the Tory argument shot to pieces then. Not that it takes a lot really. Tory policies generally revolve around the idea of making a select few very wealthy indeed, at the expense of everyone else.
Anyone got any sensible ideas as to how we can get our country back on track, or are we doomed?
Should i not be angled more towards a fair number of civil servants?
I fair point, very senior civil servants wield far more power than most people realise.
Although even more shocking, and also not common knowledge, is the power which industrialists and bankers wield, despite not being democratically accountable to anyone.
[b][i]As a minister, I experienced the power of industrialists and bankers to get their way by use of the crudest form of economic pressure, even blackmail, against a Labour Government. Compared to this, the pressure brought to bear in industrial disputes is minuscule. This power was revealed even more clearly in 1976 when the IMF secured cuts in our public expenditure. These lessons led me to the conclusion that the UK is only superficially governed by MPs and the voters who elect them. Parliamentary democracy is, in truth, little more than a means of securing a periodical change in the management team, which is then allowed to preside over a system that remains in essence intact. If the British people were ever to ask themselves what power they truly enjoyed under our political system they would be amazed to discover how little it is, and some new Chartist agitation might be born and might quickly gather momentum[/i][/b] - Tony Benn 1988
Tony Benn entered politics an aristocratic very much on the right-wing of the Labour Party. It was those revelations he experienced in government which moved him to take a left-wing socialist stance.
"How can half be below the average ? Is that not a contradiction ?"
True for a "normal", bell-curve distribution. I think "intelligence", as measured by IQ*, does follow a "normal" distribution.
[img] 
[/img]
*A discredited measure these days
I think "intelligence", as measured by IQ*, does follow a "normal" distribution. *A discredited measure these days
It's not IQ which needs to be discredited imo, it's the concept of "intelligence" ........ a largely overrated attribute which is often rendered meaningless.
We're all in it together, you know...
Funny, but I've not heard Dave utter than one for quite a while now
Whether we like it or not, this lot are going to hang on in there for the full five years. Guaranteed! The Tories have set about doing what they do best - making the rich, richer and the rest of us poorer with unrestrained glee. They're loving it! Getting to dress up their self-interested, ideologically driven 'reforms' up as necessary, even essential. They're destruction-testing extreme ChicagoSchool economics at a time when that model has never been so obviously exposed for the myth that it is
The Lib Dems will go along with whatever Dave tells them as they know they're doomed electorally now anyway .
Milliband (and the labour party generally) are worse than useless as there's a rump (Blairite) mass of MPs who are secretly quite supportive of what Dave is doing. They are just as dazzled by the banks, big business and privatisation, and wish they'd have had the balls to do it themselves.
We're all doomed! Christ only knows what this country will be like by the time this lot have finished. But it won't be pretty, I'm afraid
Elfinsafety, what's your issue? I'm not a Tory fan, I just see that when a government seems to be trying hard to bring a turnaround in this country all people want to do is shoot them down in flames. I can see from your attitude to the cuts you seem very much in the 'not in my back yard' camp.
What's your alternative - perhaps keep on with the borrowing and spending until this country falls off a financial cliff like Greece or Ireland?
The current government policies have significant credibility with the IMF. Can you say the same for Labour? How perhaps would you propose to fix this mess?
Funny, but I've not heard Dave utter than one for quite a while nowWhether we like it or not, this lot are going to hang on in there for the full five years. Guaranteed! The Tories have set about doing what they do best - making the rich, richer and the rest of us poorer with unrestrained glee. They're loving it! Getting to dress up their self-interested, ideologically driven 'reforms' up as necessary, even essential. They're destruction-testing extreme ChicagoSchool economics at a time when that model has never been so obviously exposed for the myth that it is
The Lib Dems will go along with whatever Dave tells them as they know they're doomed electorally now anyway .
Milliband (and the labour party generally) are worse than useless as there's a rump (Blairite) mass of MPs who are secretly quite supportive of what Dave is doing. They are just as dazzled by the banks, big business and privatisation, and wish they'd have had the balls to do it themselves.We're all doomed! Christ only knows what this country will be like by the time this lot have finished. But it won't be pretty, I'm afraid
It's rare that I agree with a post concerning a politically contentious subject word for word, but that is pretty much spot on imo. Although whilst I agree that a full 5 years of this nasty coalition is reasonably likely, I think the unknown factor in the equation is the LibDem membership. It should not imo be underestimated just how anti-Tory and left-wing much of the LibDem membership actually is, and there is therefore always a possibility of a rebellion/coup within the party - however enthusiastic Clegg/Cable/Alexander might be about jumping into bed with the Tories.
I just see that when a government seems to be trying hard to bring a turnaround in this country
Then you are very, very blinkered and ignorant to the reality of things, my friend.
What's your alternative
For a government with some balls to stop pandering to big business and turn wealth-creation for the few into resource creation for the many. And yes, that means heavier taxation of the wealthy, something that the Tories will never do, as they prefer to keep themselves and their own rich and powerful and most people subservient and docile. Do you genuinely think they really give a stuff about the majority of people in the UK? I'd really like to see some hard evidence that supports such a fantastical notion...
There's more than enough to go round, it just needs to be spread about a bit more equally.
Nothernstar - cuts = increased unemployment = decreased tax take =increased benefits bill = increased government spending. Teh basic leson from all previous recessions. See Roosevelt adn the new deal and the 30s crash for the classic lesson.
So we have a choice = spend money to keep people in work and the economy running or spend money to keep people on benefits.
Waht we need is a gentle reduction over time in spending as a proportion of GDP and to increase GDP. Increase GDP enough and no need to cut spending at all
Please note that our tax and spending is not high in terms of European countries such as germany and France
What's your alternative - perhaps keep on with the borrowing and spending until this country falls off a financial cliff like Greece or Ireland?
You're not paying attention NorthernStar. Ireland for example, is precisely in the shit because it has, since the recession, being implementing very deep and wide ranging austerity measures - they have for several years, been going down exactly the same road that we are now going down.
so who are you voting for this time Ernie?
or are you standing as an "independent" candidate? 😉
It should not imo be underestimated just how anti-Tory and left-wing much of the LibDem membership actually is, and there is therefore always a possibility of a rebellion/coup within the party - however enthusiastic Clegg/Cable/Alexander might be about jumping into bed with the Tories.
I believe this to be likely / almost certain once the damage to the Lib Dems becomes clear after the may 5th elections and the failure to secure PR in any form
I'm voting for binners Big and Daft.
he's not standing for election
or are you importing candidates for the local elections in your area?
What's your alternative - perhaps keep on with the borrowing and spending until this country falls off a financial cliff like Greece or Ireland?
for the third time the same Ireland that the Chancellor was praising for the conomic handling before falling off a cliff
PS you cannot say you are not a fan then praise them repeatedly whilst slagging of labour.
IMF commenting on the labour management before the collapse.For over a decade, the United Kingdom has sustained low inflation and rapid economic growth-an exceptional achievement. More recently, the economy grew by 3 percent in 2007, and inflation returned to target after a temporary elevation. All this is the fruit of strong policies and policy frameworks, which provide a strong foundation to weather global shocks.
hmmmmmm the IMF, isn't GB trying to get himself positioned to run that?
he's not standing for election
What are you - his agent ?
PS you cannot say you are not a fan then praise them repeatedly whilst slagging of labour.
You can when you realise just how lonely being a Tory can sometimes be.
It should not imo be underestimated just how anti-Tory and left-wing much of the LibDem membership actually is, and there is therefore always a possibility of a rebellion/coup within the party
The possibility of a Lib Dem rebellion or coup of sufficient scale to break the coalition occurring is at present pretty low - IMO almost non-existent. Basically I don't think the Lib Dem membership is as left-leaning as you do.
That said, never say never, and TJ's post sure points out a potential flash point...
after the may 5th elections and the failure to secure PR in any form
The below link is the one I wanted - Leader approval ratings by party...
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/category/leader-approval-ratings/
You can when you realise just how lonely being a Tory can sometimes be.
Remember before the election, when hardly anyone on here admitted to being a Tory supporter, then all came out of the woodwork after the Tories got in?
What are you - his agent ?
no I'm not. If he is standing in nhis local area he needs to sack his. 😉
so who are you actually going to vote for then? 😉
or does voting delay the revolution?
perhaps the gobby shouty left wing bitter ranters who never let it go and attack on mass [ you know who [s]we [/s] you are ]dissuade some from admitting this that ane no want to admit to being a **** even when it is true
I'm voting for ernie - he needs the support of wishy washy middle class guardian reading liberals
Basically I don't think the Lib Dem membership is as left-leaning as you do.
Maybe you live in a different area to me ? My experience of Liberal Democrat members is that they have in recent years, been considerable to the left of New Labour. Indeed much of their criticism of the last Labour government was based on the allegation of how right-wing it was. I don't recall a LibDem criticising New Labour for being too left-wing. All of which must make this pact between Clegg/Cable/Alexander and the Tories extremely uncomfortable for many LibDem members.
OK TJ i am in shall we have a dinner party to launch the campaign?
Cheers Ernie. Thats one vote, anyway 🙂
I've always maintained I should be running the country. I agree with you about the Ireland comparison too. If the defenition of madness is to repeat the same exercise and expect different results, then Osborne is actually insane. He's following letter-for-letter what the Irish have done (hardly surprising given his oft-voiced admiration for their economic 'miracle'), yet its clear for everyone to see what the results were there
What we'll get is Japanese-style stagnation at absolute best. I fear what we'll actually get will be far far worse. But Dave and his friends will be insulated from the fall-out as they're all wadded. Therefore they don't give a flying **** what happens to the living standards of the rest of us
Ernie Lynch, Ireland is in a mess because he government and its people borrowed too much money. The cuts are the symptom of the problem - not the cause. If Ireland had not implemented cuts then they would be a whole worse position than they currently are. No one is going to lend them the money to keep going unless they make savings - surely you understand that?
Sure the cuts are not popular but whats the alternative? Less and less national credibility and higher and higher interest payments on outstanding national debt. Portugal currently pays in the region 10% on national debts. That would really hurt the UK if it were allowed to happen but thankfully as a result of a credible plan, our interest payments are a lot lot less than that.
You need to look at the bigger picture before whinging about cuts to your local school, bus service, council jobs etc.
To OP ... eeerrrmmm ... new election?
My experience of Liberal Democrat members is that they have in recent years, been considerable to the left of New Labour
In fairness that's probably more to do with New Labour moving to the right than it is the Liberal Democrats moving to the left.
I've always maintained I should be running the country.
if you don't stand for election you won't get elected
[i]Sure the cuts are not popular but whats the alternative? [/i]
Elfin has already told you. Tax the better off people more instead of cutting front line services that many of the less well off depend on.
No one is saying we don't need to make cuts but there are different ways to make the cuts. The Tories simply aren't, and in recent times, never really have been interested in the less well off parts of our society. That's not who they represent and they never really will.
dissuade some from admitting this that ane no want to admit to being a **** even when it is true
Voting Tory is a dirty and disgusting act which most sane people don't openly admit to......and only carry out the vile act in the quiet and secluded privacy of a polling booth.
I think the knowledge that only a curtain made of fabric separates them from normal people, whilst they engage in their deeply offensive perversion, adds to the excitement and thrill these sick people experience 😐
big_n_daft. I never ever want to live in a country where someone like me could end up running things. It really doesn't bear thinking about. I couldn't run a bath! I am however very good at pontificating on subjects I know little about 😉
