As a reasonable human being and also a voter in a Scotland last week, I am disturbed to observe the actual and social media aggression and intimidation by some (a minority) of Yes supporters to those who democratically did not support a Yes vote. Use that energy for something more positive please.
Like blocking new threads about scotchland.
its an emotive issue and folk are emotional who ever won some on the loosing side would be doing this
Couple this with some [ minority] no voters crowing and it was inevitable
TBH had yes won exactly the same thing would have happened but in reverse
No defence but it is what it is
It will calm down as long as westminster deliver on pledges but it will be a wee bit fractious for a while
Toys out of Pram Syndrome,
takes time and medication along with copious quantaties of alcohol to numb the mind.
also theyre wanting a boycott of certain shops who supported the yes group.
Has anyone ever respected democracy?
Lots of countries don't even have it because it means losing control. Those that do are hardly free of manipulation of voters... see the other thread about media bias and read Hack Attack about the NOTW hacking to see just how manipulated UK democracy has been for the last 40 years... honestly, it's a shocker...
s@$% em.
Junkyard is correct, and scotroutes link is good. I know how I would feel if the vote went the other way. Many people will are rightly gutted. The dust will settle, it has to. We need the Yes drive to help hold Westminster to account. Has only been a couple of days.
The first comment on that bellacaledonia blog is abhorrant
And indicative of some of the hateful bile I've seen on facebook
True, but maybe not so much, with a yes vote the was an alternative to being in an independent Scotland, move south! With a no vote they can't exactly retreat to the highlands and islands and do a funny dance in a kilt to defy the English like they did 500 years ago.TBH had yes won exactly the same thing would have happened but in reverse
There is a certain irony about people voting for independence because the current system is "undemocratic" complaining about democracy when the majority of people don't agree with them.
I have no doubt that had it gone the other way, specially if it was something like 50.3% in favour, the reaction would have been at least as bad. And probably a lot worse as it is generally accepted that Yes means forever but No means for about another 15 years according the Salmond.
It's worth remembering that the loyalists in Ireland were none too happy about the majority of Irish wanting independence. So the UK government insisted they be given a chunk of Ireland.
With a no vote they can't exactly retreat to the highlands and islands and do a funny dance in a kilt to defy the English like they did 500 years ago
Well if that wont build bridges what will?
There is a certain irony about people voting for independence because the current system is "undemocratic" complaining about democracy when the majority of people don't agree with them.
Can you remind us of the media position in the free vote?
Again you are bright enough to see why they claim this even if you disagree.
The point can be made well or it can be made like you are a tin foil hat wearing loon. It is generally the later to be fair.
ernie, you have a point, however had the vote gone the other way then I would hope that the best deal could be acheived for Scotland, in the hope of making independence a success. This is where Alastair Darling was leaving his arse in the breeze if he was to continue to say he would not support a CU if there was a Yes vote. What I hope does not happen is that Yes supporters step back or actively hope for the failure of devolved powers. At this stage it is very early and I am giving the benefit of the doubt.
What I hope does not happen is that Yes supporters step back or actively hope for the failure of devolved powers. At this stage it is very early and I am giving the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not. Already comments by some militant Yes supporters suggests they are hoping that Westminster fails to deliver.
Again you are bright enough to see why they claim this even if you disagree.
The lack of democracy? Yes, I can understand and sympathise with the claim. However that doesn't detract from the irony of them having just had a fully democratic free vote involving just the people of Scotland as they wanted and them complaining about the result. Not even any perceived media influence affects that - if anything all the post event analysis arguing it would have been Yes if this or that hadn't happened (or that under 55s voted Yes - a claim I note AS has also repeated, despite only one of the two polls giving demographics of actual voting showing that and then by a very small margin) is just as bad. That is the way democracy works.
I'm not. Already comments by some militant Yes supporters suggests they are hoping that Westminster fails to deliver.
I am sure that some staunch Yes supporters may think that. Remember though that 'devo max' was not on the ballot, and many have admitted that had it been on the paper then independence would have been blown out of the water. More powers for Holyrood is not the sole preserve of No voters. There will be many that voted Yes that would quite like more devolved power also, but maybe believed Westminster would not deliver. Here is their chance to use Yes drive in a positive way to help make sure it does.
comments by some militant Yes supporters suggests they are hoping that Westminster fails to deliver.
Like this one from the Lib Dem minister ?
"It is deeply frustrating that briefings over the last 48 hours have distracted from the crystal-clear commitment of all parties to deliver the change Scotland voted for last week," Alexander, the chief secretary to the Treasury, told the Guardian. He is likely to sit on a cabinet committee overseeing devolution.
Indeed aracer they are upset and clutching at straws- whichever losing side we got they were bound to do this
they are upset and clutching at straws- whichever losing side we got they were bound to do this
Is this the point where we do "no our side is better"? 😉
Like this one from the Lib Dem minister ?
Yes just like that LibDem minister. It's obvious that Danny Alexander is [i]"hoping that Westminster fails to deliver"[/i].
I have no doubt that had it gone the other way, specially if it was something like 50.3% in favour, the reaction would have been at least as bad. And probably a lot worse as it is generally accepted that Yes means forever but No means for about another 15 years according the Salmond.
If you were looking from a bit further away you would really be looking for 65% or more hopefully up nearer 80% support for such a massive change.
So many people invested so much into Yes that it's going to take a while for them to come down, so many had a lot of smoke blown up them that they truly believed it was going to happen which is leaving a lot of disappointment.
From an outsiders point of view the Yes always contained the most vocal supporters who managed to shout louder and appear much bigger than their support was. This is more of the same really, the silent majority probably will be moving on, talk of things like the 45% or whatever it is is probably more like 45 people not 45%.
Hopefully a week down the road things will calm down a bit as everyone has to go back to work and get on with life.
aracer its either that or our Dads have to have a fight hard to tell
ernie he also said
He [ Alexander] told the Guardian: "It has always been the case that the Scottish process must be independent of any other political discussions and must be dealt with according to the timetable we set out. For wider constitutional changes it would be preferable to have all-party consensus."
that doesn't detract from the irony of them having just had a fully democratic free vote involving just the people of Scotland as they wanted and them complaining about the result
THAT'S NOT IRONIC
complaining is perfectly compatible with a belief in democracy - practically obligatory in fact. if Yessers had eg seized the radio stations, purged the military, blockaded the airport and installed a separatist junta, that would be ironic.
I think if Salmon wasn't their leader the loss would have been bigger. He was a great orator, a silver-tongued bastard compared to the Nu Labour's idiots that we had.
But in the last 48 hours has proved himself to be a dick. If he'd done a "Well done to the yes vote, we tried hard and didn't get it. Scotland will be independent one day but on this occasion our country has spoken and wants to remain in the UK" sort of speech I'd have had some respect for him.
Instead he effectively did this:
konabunny - getting the sort of democracy you're asking for and then complaining because democracy doesn't produce the result it's supposed to is very ironic.
I've just looked at the news. Oh jesus wept. Doesn't he know that the majority disagreed with him?
Doesn't he know that the majority disagreed with him?
He does seem a bit obsessed with this whole independence fad....
He'll be riding around on a white horse shouting orders before pissing off to France before long 😆
Perhaps Glasgow* could declare independence and free itself of the shackles of all those ill informed country types?
*and Dundee
The referendum results were Friday and already there were accusations that the change is behind schedule/going back on promises. WTF. Talk about bad losers.
It really makes you think the yes crowd are of a certain ilk. Yes bad on both sides but I've heard from different sources that alot of people considering voting no had to keep their decision private.
Seventh comment on scotroute's blog link also has an interesting take on democracy:
The right to vote in the referendum should have been restricted to those who were living in Scotland, born in Scotland and who had two parents born in Scotland.
That's kind of the same approach that the UAE and Qatar take. Countries that are widely respected for their open and inclusive form of democracy.
NB The final sentence above is sarcasm.
What nonsense Hora.
The so called 'vow' of new powers formed part of the 'No' campaign panic offer. Of course the moment the referendum was over, it turned out to be lies. What a shock. Complaining about this is being a bad loser? Get a grip.
A lot of people considering voting 'No' had to keep their decision private did they? If I was voting out of self-interest and fearfulness, to perpetuate the status quo (or worse) in a country with 20% child poverty I would keep quiet too.
If I was voting out of self-interest and fearfulness, to perpetuate the status quo (or worse) in a country with 20% child poverty I would keep quiet too.
Yes, with respectful and reasonable views of the opposition like this, it's a wonder any No voters felt that they didn't want to express an opinion 😆
scotroutes - Member
Some eye opening comments underneath the article. 😆
If I was voting out of self-interest and fearfulness, to perpetuate the status quo (or worse) in a country with 20% child poverty I would keep quiet too.
If I was delusional enough to think that voting yes would fix everything I'd keep quiet too.
Any new powers require acts of parliament and debate, they can't just be granted that's not democratic. Perhaps people should actually wait and see before crying foul.
@hora -
It really makes you think the yes crowd are of a certain ilk.
Really. Know quite a few Yes voters. Archetypical SNP nats / Scotland footie fans they were, on the whole, definitely. You do speak utter tosh man. Likewise, the No voters were not always toffs, ageing reactionaries or loyalists. Reasons for folk voting one of two ways (or three...) were as numerous as the voting numbers, not down to this vote == this type of person.
Rockplough - Member...it turned out to be lies. What a shock. Complaining about this is being a bad loser? Get a grip.
it's been little more than 1 working day since the result came in, it's possibly a little early to complain about broken promises.
and quite frankly, Scotland isn't the centre of the universe, a lot of 'other' stuff has been going on (ISIS, Russia, Downton Abbey, etc.)
...If I was voting out of self-interest and fearfulness...
yes, because everyone whose opinion differs from yours is a selfish and weak person.
The so called 'vow' of new powers formed part of the 'No' campaign panic offer. Of course the moment the referendum was over, it turned out to be lies. What a shock. Complaining about this is being a bad loser? Get a grip.
Lies in what way? Given that they are pressing ahead with this...
I'm not sure that it's hora (just for a change) who needs to get a grip!
The so called 'vow' of new powers formed part of the 'No' campaign panic offer. Of course the moment the referendum was over, it turned out to be lies. What a shock. Complaining about this is being a bad loser? Get a grip.
I'd be interested to know whether Salmond (and you) seriously expected the new powers to be voted in on Friday PM or if you're just afflicted by bitterness.
Just a few examples of why the PM or other politicians need to ask the approval of parliament for things
29 August 2013 - A motion provisionally authorising military intervention in the Syrian civil war was defeated 285-272.
9 November 2005 - An amendment to the Terrorism Bill to allow terrorist suspects to held without charge for 90 days was defeated 291-322.
6 December 1994 - A defeat on a plan to increase Value Added Tax on domestic fuel.
Parliament decides not the party leaders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Government_defeats_in_the_House_of_Commons_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Unless you want to had CMD all that power?
...If I was voting out of self-interest and fearfulness...
The problem is you can't deride 55% of the population in this way without undermining a basic premise of the Yes campaign: that if you let The People decide you are always going to end up with a Good Thing.
29 August 2013 - A motion provisionally authorising military intervention in the Syrian civil war was defeated 285-272.
Technically I don't think a PM does need to ask Parliament to vote on this, it was just a nicety.
Anyway, I've got to love the hate coming out of the Daily Mail since the election. Today we have an article complaining about Welsh racism directed at English immigrants, with most of the commentators equally outraged.
I ****ing laughed my balls off and then realized it wasn't satire.
I think it's probably another case of democracy not working the way they think it should.
Note to anybody complaining about the timetable - if more people had voted Yes you still wouldn't have any new powers yet.
Has anyone published this timetable (not including Gordon Brown who is simply 1 MP)
