Depends what you're prepared to invest in it. If it's only about you then you're only going to be disappointed. Raise your perspective a bit and see how bad life could really be. I'm fed up with the media and selected vox pops with an agenda running my country down. I love my life and everything in it.
I reckon the unwritten social contract is beginning to get scrunched up. The current batch of elderly have delivered the young a miserable inheritance: broken services, brexit, over ten years of gloom, crippling house prices, an environmental catastrophe and a responsibility to fund the care of those that brought it all on. I’d be pretty miffed: bad care home for you lot.
It’s probably not that bad (please tell me it’s not that bad?).
I’m in the FB Group for the town (small Northern English ex-industrial) I was born in and lived until I left school.
It’s grim reading, and what is especially grim is the appalling grammar, spelling and shoddily written English – and pretty much all they ever do is complain about foreigners, gypsies and kids.
It probably says more about the members of that Facebook group than anything
I don't suppose the decline in social attitudes you identify is in anyway due to the beneficiaries of the previously decent schools leaving the area?
where do you see our societal values headed for in the next say ten years time?
Downhill in general. It will become ever more important to cluster yourself and your family with others having similar values - where you live, your kids' friends, where you work, which companies you buy from. It will be more polarised, although that's not the right word as there will be many such clusters not just two opposites.
Not having kids. I don't have the confidence that I could shepherd them through all the shit. Some grandparents even today must feel terrible about the ways at least one of their descendants' lives have turned out.
England 'gonna England, it'll take Wales with it as it's just too small. I have a glimmer of hope of an independent Scotland to which I'd like to move (at their invitation), but that doesn't fix everything and England's gonna' be Englandin' next door spilling over forever. I'm too old to be risking my assets in all this and losing it all in some messy revolution, basically I'm invested in the system of the UK.
Divided, divisive, regressive.
The autistic world isn't really connected to the real world,and although that sounds a bit self centered, from what's being described above it's probably the best mindset to have.
In a generations time the Brexit voters will be voting pro immigration as they'll need someone to wipe their arses in their retirement homes. Their children will have managed to escape the country via one of the various underground networks that have been established.
SSS
Free Member
“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”Guess which part in the cycle we are in.
the joe rogan bullshit cycle? 😆
I read a stat that the number of people in london that were were below the poverty line was larger than the total population of greater manchester.
The young people i know seem pretty cool, i wouldn't write them off just yet.
If we don't acknowledge the huge sacrifice they have made, they will be mightily pissed off about it, that i do know.
In a generations time the Brexit voters will be
voting pro immigrationdeceased
ftfy
I was talking to a guy on site the other day (Although as a rule I generally avoid talking about anything serious at work) and his theory was that the people who grew up in the 50's & 60's - post WWII - saw us having it "so good" in the 70's & 80's that when they finally got the chance, they knocked us right back to 1950 with its ration books and bare shelves, to teach us a lesson . . . .
The guy was a carpenter (if that makes any difference).
The country is inward looking and full of idiots who vote for terrible governments and those governments are making it a bit worse year by year.
However it is probably not that different to most other countries, grass is greener and so on, so I just get on with it and ensure I am happy enough. I can't change the culture/society/government when the majority are after something different than me.
Saying that, I would like to give NZ a go if it was so bloody hard to get in.
Not having kids. I don’t have the confidence that I could shepherd them through all the shit. Some grandparents even today must feel terrible about the ways at least one of their descendants’ lives have turned out
You assume you can have kids 🙁
In the darkest times there can be light.
Even more fly-tipping and relentless culture wars
I stopped my car to let a family of four cross a residential road next to a school yesterday. Twenty cars coming the other way drove past before another person also stopped.
I see selfishness, greed, pride in ignorance and a disdain for others everywhere.
Maybe it's always been there but right now, they have the upper hand and the loudest voice.
The kids are alright, let's focus on them.
I see selfishness, greed, pride in ignorance and a disdain for others everywhere.
This. Everyman for himself. F*** everyone else. Most people seem to go out of their way to look for a fight, verbal or otherwise, over the most menial things. We've been done over by a generation of politicians who wanted everything for themselves and to hell with the rest of us. I fear for this little rock. I consider myself extremely lucky to have what I have, but if I could relocate my family overseas, I would do it in a heartbeat. New Zealand seem to have got their house in order pretty well and the likes of Norway & Iceland are doing very well for themselves too. We're going to rot unless something dramatically changes.
Every time I visit my local town centres I see arguments and/or violence.The atmosphere in the area feels incendiary.I can't see it getting better anytime soon.
This country is so awful that people flee France in small boats to cross the channel in mid winter
The country is very diverse and England the most diverse part of the UK. It's not a monopopulation of Nigel Farages
I see selfishness, greed, pride in ignorance and a disdain for others everywhere.
You can change the people who you hang out with, there are plenty of people who are positively contributing the their community, who care, who go out of their way to help others.
Be one of them.
No one is fleeing France in small boats. There are no French asylum seekers. They are fleeing failing countries further away, and heading to all European countries. A small percentage head for the UK.
Of course we can help ourselves in our local communities, but the question was about Britain. Making things better in our own little bubbles, or “clusters” as someone puts it, and ignoring what is happening to, or being done to, others outside our immediate sphere, is a great way to feel better about things.
🙈
I read a stat that the number of people in london that were were below the poverty line was larger than the total population of greater manchester.
Yep, it was a moronic statement by Chakrabati in the Grauniad to support his assertion that there is no north south divide.
"Huge city with 16 times as many people as a relatively tiny city contains more people of x circumstance than the entire size of the comparatively tiny city" shocker
Utter bilge
Making things better in our own little bubbles, or “clusters” as someone puts it, and ignoring what is happening to, or being done to, others outside our immediate sphere, is a great way to feel better about things.
🙈
It is. I can do bugger all nationally but I can make my village a bit nicer, just little things like looking after a footpath and fixing a bridge for example. Lots of other people here do similar.
If everyone does that for their own area everywhere gets better🤷♂️
Hiya,
I like to think more positive than some of the comments. It is easy to look at social media for a reflection of the UK, you'll just see negative in this. OK, it is pretty bad at the moment but I see glimmers of sunshine. Boris is a dead man walking, the good news is the public are beginning to see him for his lies. As for the state of the country I see kids that are generally good and will have good future's. Boris will be gone in the next 6 months for sure when the amount of disasters he has created catch up with him. The conservatives will transcend into a smaller party and people won't vote for them like in the past, they won't forget the mess he created, and so I see it that he has done us a favour.
In summary we're in for a rocky ride the next 18 months but it will get better...
JeZ
This. Everyman for himself. F*** everyone else. Most people seem to go out of their way to look for a fight, verbal or otherwise, over the most menial things. We’ve been done over by a generation of politicians who wanted everything for themselves and to hell with the rest of us. I fear for this little rock. I consider myself extremely lucky to have what I have, but if I could relocate my family overseas, I would do it in a heartbeat. New Zealand seem to have got their house in order pretty well and the likes of Norway & Iceland are doing very well for themselves too. We’re going to rot unless something dramatically changes.
I'd agree with this. The problem is, our happy little colonial past* has unravelled and we are transitioning to an island of people unable to stamp our identity as a culture because we don't know how to do so without violence and argument, with a withering place in the world order and with an egotistical leadership focussed on its enjoying the benefits of the public riches. Look at Barbados, having to recently overthrow a very similar Government that was driving the Island to waste yet relying almost on an individual to resurrect it from the ashes, having recently establish independence as a republic - it can be done.
"We" are being treated with disdain in the global arena because of our ego and cultural far right conditioning, we've a long way to go to learn how to be an attractive independent Island nation. The UK & Ireland as an island has a lot to offer, but thats not the first thing people see about us.
*Worth remembering there were have and have nots, poverty and class superiority in England way before today.
*Worth remembering there were have and have nots, poverty and class superiority in England way before today.
There have always been the less well off in society, there has never been a period with anything else in some form or other
Well put Kryton
It will be every man for himself where the majority will happily screw over anyone to step up another rung on the ladder or even just to knock others down a rung so your position seems comparatively better, people will happily intimidate you, swerve at you and run you off the road just to get to work five seconds earlier. Oh wait that's now isn't it? Welcome to Tory Britain.
It will be every man for himself where the majority will happily screw over anyone to step up another rung on the ladder or even just to knock others down a rung so your position seems comparatively better, people will happily intimidate you, swerve at you and run you off the road just to get to work five seconds earlier. Oh wait that’s now isn’t it? Welcome to Tory Britain.
Are you joining in or trying to make a difference?
I'm upbeat in negative way.
I'd like to think that there's a (small) majority of the population who are prepared to sacrifice a little in order to improve the wider social situation of those struggling. Whether that's a philanthropic desire or the realisation that if they don't there could be riots and a complete dystopian breakdown of society doesn't really matter.
The problem is that there is no "untainted" centre left political figure/party for that small majority to get behind to make it happen, so we run the risk that it splinters into factions and the head banging right wing minority will continue to lead us to their sunlit dystopian uplands.
There are three groups you can split people into
Those who are self centered and just take and screw everyone else or some group they have othered
Those who moan about the first group and stay in their little bubble
Those who try and make their community a better place and help people regardless of whether they are in one of the first two groups or not
As with a lot of other posters I live in a bit of a bubble, and it's a pretty nice bubble to live in. I have lovely family and friends, a roof over our heads and food on the table. We don't have everything we'd like but we have enough.
I do see a lot of selfishness, entitlement, and intolerance in wider society which saddens me. More than anything though I look at the pressures on the young and I worry. As per the thread about house prices, I just cannot see a way for my kids to get a decent and fair start in life. Every aspect of our lives in the UK seems to be geared to extracting as much money from us as possible, leaving the bare minimum to get by on, so unless I can find a way to get them started financially then they will be at an immediate disadvantage.
Over the years I have had several very real opportunities to relocate (Australia, Canada, USA) but I never went because I thought I would miss my family and friends too much, and since the kids came along I didn't want to take them too far from family. We haven't had the conversation yet but at some point I will make sure that if my kids get these opportunities they do not let them slide because they are worried about upsetting me.
I understand the sentiment about the grass being greener, but I have good friends in many countries where they enjoy excellent quality of life. Sure, they have their problems there too but I think the fundamental approach to life in a lot of other countries is much better.
In answer to your question OP, I think we will see a lot of young people leaving which will make the problem worse for those that are left.
There are three groups you can split people into
And none of those groups will help beyond the little bubbles they inhabit - some will be highly detrimental.
We will have some nice communities in ghettos perhaps - but not a decent country overall.
And yes, go help your nice little community and folk on the margins of it. I do. But I’m honest enough to know that it’s a marginal, negligible even, effect at best.
And the country has been clear it doesn’t want people working together. We vote folk in who actively try to spread division - outside and within the country - because that how they maintain their grip on power. And it works.
I guess I'm feeling more positive than most. The times, they are a-changin'
I know OP didn't really want to discuss the economy, but I don't think you can really discuss society without mentioned the combined evils of the economy and politics.
It feels to me that Britain needed to go through this painful period at some point, too many people feeling isolated from the rest of the world, being fed a lot of bullshit formed a lot of very dark opinions, it's been simmering for decades. For me, the situation we find ourselves in today is the logical conclusion of that, we're lead by a populist idiot and his lackies and I think, finally the veil has been lifted.
This current age of populism is coming to an end, it's more than just Labour v Tories, Johnson is willing to take the ship down with him, but for me, it doesn't matter, the Tories time is coming to an end, they'll be out at the next GE and will spend a decade or more in the wilderness, it just seems to be part of the natural cycle of things in the UK.
As for society in general, again, I feel most positive. Yes, it's more digital, but local FB groups, school groups, etc - yeah the internet is still full of bullshit influencers and all that crap, but I see more and more 'real' people who aren't afraid to share their real lives and feelings.
There are some difficult times ahead, inflation, is going to make our lives a little less easy, and yes very hard for some and we could be entering a 2nd Cold War with Russia and China, but perhaps become of our age most of us think the 90s was some kind of cultural high point, it's not such a bad thing? 😉
Those who try and make their community a better place and help people regardless
That's great and I and others do that where I live but generally we are just making our bubble even nicer. Not saying that's a bad thing but it isn't really fixing anything.
we could be entering a 2nd Cold War with Russia and China
Sad thing is it seems we are genuinely happier when we have a common enemy/threat to unite us.
Grum and igm just said everything I was going to say.
the joe rogan bullshit cycle? 😆
Its a quote from 'Those Who Remain' by G Michael Hopf.
You need to read more books.
Do you know, I think some folk could do with re-reading “1984”.
As individual's you can't change the whole world, but you can change your little part of the world. Focus on what you can control, don't worry about what you can't control.
I go out to work, which in its own little way will hopefully leave the world a cleaner, more energy efficient and healthier place (I would earn far more using my engineering degree working in banking or BAE systems making toys of war though)!
Ensure you always spend less than you earn, and put something aside, even if just a tenner a month.
Donate money each month to charities that are important to you, even if just a couple of pounds.
Pick up litter when out walking and say 'hello' to folk you pass when out and about.
Have conversations about the weather to some folk that seem to want to natter, you never outwardly know who is lonely, but you soon realise once they start talking.
When the time comes around, vote for the party that offers to create the world you want to live. Expect to be disappointed.
Don't get involved in online arguments - you won't change anyones mind, you won't do your own mental health any good and you certainly won't have a positive impression of the world.
Spend time with good people, don't spend time with negative people.
Spend more time reading books than on social media.
The world will always have ******s but don't let those *s win.
Yep, I've tripled my charitable donations, binned amazon off, started campaigning for Labour. Also getting more involved with scouts.
Have always cleaned our streets, picked litter on walks etc but now getting my kids to help.
I've binned most apps and bookmarks, can't quite get rid of The Guardian and I probably need to delete this bookmark too.
I think my bubble will be ok, but that's just an awful attitude really.
Sad thing is it seems we are genuinely happier when we have a common enemy/threat to unite us.
Its well known that war = Money
Sad thing is it seems we are genuinely happier when we have a common enemy/threat to unite us.
I wonder about that myself sometimes. I know it's a cliché and a lot of it will be because it was my era, but I fancy the mid-late 90s were a happy time because things were pretty good. The Cold War had ended, we'd recovered from a nasty recession in the early 90s, The Troubles were coming to an end and, without triggering too many Lefties, Tony Blair came to power riding a wave of positivity.
I remember it as a very happy time, but it was my late teens early 20s and very rose tinted for me now. It all ended on Sept 11, it's been 9/11, 7/7, Iraq and Afghanistan, Credit Crunch, Brexit and Covid ever since.
it’s been 9/11, 7/7, Iraq and Afghanistan, Credit Crunch, Brexit and Covid ever since.
Which also coincides with the rise of social media. There is and always has been wars and atrocities going on since the dawn of time, but as we get older we are more aware and undertake more responsibilities, all of which impacts on your mental state.
Which also coincides with the rise of social media. There is and always has been wars and atrocities going on since the dawn of time, but as we get older we are more aware and undertake more responsibilities, all of which impacts on your mental state.
I would say the use of Social Media by right wing establishments to mete out and apportion blame and manipulate the hard of thinking is the biggest factor in the state of society.
I would say the use of Social Media by right wing establishments to mete out and apportion blame and manipulate the hard of thinking is the biggest factor in the state of society.
Yeah, because the Daily Mail etc were never capable of that 🤪
I think we have put ourselves in a bit of a pickle to put it mildly but as the millenials and Gen Z'ers start to find their poltical voice I'm quietly optimistic as they are nowhere near as apathetic as Gen-Z and are a lot smarter than many would like to give them credit for, especialy when it comes to handling the online space.
It will take a generation to repair the damage done by the spasm of bone-headed English nationalism that gave us Brexit and the Boris Govt and it may be too late to save the UK but despite the challenges ahead I'm not in total dispair.
Ask me again if Boris is still Prime Minister in 5 years though.
