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Not sure who that is directed at nor the point of the question in regard to any relevance to the original post.
So, are there any examples of products that are successful without being subject to the whole marketing/branding thing?
Crikey - that would be very difficult to identify. Perhaps Howies early on? But at the end of the day, they all exist to make money so all spend money developing an identity for their target audience to identify with in one way or another.
I think I might have to respectfully disagree with this;
[i]so all spend money developing an identity for their target audience to identify with in one way or another.[/i]
I think many firms/companies/makers of stuff in the past just made things to the best of their ability and priced them accordingly and sold them because they were a good product. It's a sad state of affairs when you have to 'market' your 'brand' to your 'target audience' rather than just make good stuff.
Hey ho, maybe I'm getting old.
You hit the nail on the head with 'in the past'.
If a company existed now and just hoped people would buy their great products, they would soon disappear or just exist as a niche business with a small customer base as there will always be another business spending money marketing themselves.
Not sure who that is directed at nor the point of the question in regard to any relevance to the original post.
If that's at me, it was directed at the general level of jargon being spouted on here. Relevance to OP, very little as the thread has moved from web design to branding to marketing to branding to defending branding and all sorts of crap.
Also, have you considered that the OP was simply a troll?
I think I hit the nail on the head with 'sad state of affairs'.
It would appear that the number of people involved in the actual production of quality stuff is dwarfed by the number of people we 'need' to sell it.
Not really 'progress' is it?
Don simon true - this thread has wandered somewhat.
If the OP was a troll it was a good one 🙂
So, are there any examples of products that are successful without being subject to the whole marketing/branding thing?
Without marketing, probably not. Without branding, go figure.
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And yes, I AM AWESOME. The sooner you realise, the better.
Perhaps not, but it is what it is.
One of the better ones. Didnt you realise after he stepped away from the debate???
It's a sad state of affairs when you have to 'market' your 'brand' to your 'target audience' rather than just make good stuff.
No no no, you have rose tinted specs on there mate. Marketing goes back a looong way. In fact it was even worse 100 years ago then now - people made up all sorts of wild claims to make out that their stuff was the best when it wasn't.
The real issue is that there often isn't one best product. How would you advertise say Coke? You either like it or you don't, right? Or do you? Can you influence people to like your beverage more than another? What about say, orange juice? Surely all orange juice is basically the same.
Supermarkets are a good example. They all sell basically the same stuff the same way. What they have done is position themselves at slightly different parts of society, and they do it via different kinds of marketing and advertising.
Look at the adverts on telly. All adverts are for a very small selection of different types of product. Why would that be?
Perhaps not, but it is what it is.
It's the modern way of doing business that has brought us to the current crisis as there is more competition, less real innovation and business leaders demand more.
I had an interesting chat with a director at Samsung S.A. last week regarding this, if we finish the chat next week I'll report my findings, but his point of view was quite interesting and you'll be surprised to find I didn't fully agree. 😉
less real innovation
Rubbish!
I do like a well constructed argument, if I had a hat on i'd take it off.
Oh right ok, I better tell them that then, so's they can change their job descriptions...
They don't need to change their job descriptions, just their job titles. Or perhaps your recollection of them.
Do I really need to explain the difference between development and design? [i]Really?[/i]
I'm reasonably proficient at web development. I couldn't be a web designer if my life depended on it.
[i]No no no, you have rose tinted specs on there mate[/i]
No, actually wrong. I have clear glasses on; clear enough to see that a society built on consumerism of the kind we have at present is only good for people who can pay lots of money to sell their products to other people.
It doesn't mean that I get to buy the best thing, it means I get to buy the best marketed thing.
It doesn't mean I get to buy the most effective thing, it means I get to buy the best marketed thing.
It doesn't mean I get to buy the least environmentally damaging thing, it means I get to buy the best marketed thing.
It's your society too, the one that your kids are growing up in, the one that your grandchildren will grow up in, but never mind, at least people are making money from it.
It's strange that when I introduced this idea to a Division Director at Samsung S.A. he was willing to listen and talk and to some degree agree with me, we haven't finished talking on the subject.
Yet molgrips can only offer 'rubbish', and this is based on what?
This is getting boring without TJ repeating himself so here goes.
Emperor's New Clothes. Think about it.
Guff.
don simon - Member
Perhaps not, but it is what it is.
It's the modern way of doing business that has brought us to the current crisis as there is more competition, less real innovation and business leaders demand more.
Interesting. Most folk claim there is [i]less[/i] competition.
Broken pages again!
I know TJ is trolling, but I do suspect that he does believe to some very great extent that he is unaffected by brand marketing and advertising. He is of course wrong, he's been shown up hugely twice already by tiger6791. If you said you'd read which magazine you'd have more credibility than saying you ask other people for advice as you have now infact shown yourself to be the easiest influenced and best kind of brand advocate available. Brilliant Stuff.
I know TJ is trolling, but I do suspect that he does believe to some very great extent that he is unaffected by brand marketing and advertising. He is of course wrong, he's been shown up hugely twice already by tiger6791. If you said you'd read which magazine you'd have more credibility than saying you ask other people for advice as you have now infact shown yourself to be the easiest influenced and best kind of brand advocate available. Brilliant Stuff.
Come on, the world has changed beyond recognition in the last 10 years. Look at the screen in front of you! Technological innovation is proceeding at a rate greater than ever before, if you hadn't noticed from your hermitage in the Spanish mountains 😉
Where are all the missing posts????
It's the modern way of doing business that has brought us to the current crisis as there is more competition, less real innovation and business leaders demand more.
The line between new inovation vs. continualed development of a product is a bit blured. Yet I agree with the point your making.
.().().().
I bet the OP would be really surprised at how this thread turned out
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I bet the OP would be really surprised at how this thread turned out
OP will be very happy, as I am. 😆
That took nearly 1 hour for p7 to come up. 😯
The pace of technological change is greater now than ever before. Just look at the screen in front of you. I can't believe anyone could say there's no innovation.
Even that classic advertising case study, washing powder. There used to be just washing powder, now there's biodegradable and wash at 15 degrees - those are innovations. Both from an ecological and a marketing point of view.
Interesting. Most folk claim there is less competition.
Are these real most folks or hypothetical I don't agree with you but have no facts to support me most folks?
When I was giving courses in a pharma company they had a calcium drug with no less than 10 competitors, non of whom had a USP (unique selling point). In the car industry the likes of Lexus, Tata, Dacia and even Daewoo are new entrants. As domestic markets are getting more and more saturated, new markets have to be found therefore increasing competition. Due to the crisis some companies are being lost, but up until now, I would disagree and say competition is increasing.
molgrips, you'll understand if I ignore you, won't you?
😀don simon - Member
> Interesting. Most folk claim there is less competition.
Are these real most folks or hypothetical I don't agree with you but have no facts to support me most folks?
Mostly the latter. We are always hearing that "globalisation" is seeing smaller companies being swallowed up. Then there's the reduced number of Banks and, of course, the STW favourite, the supermarket doing away with all those small shops.
The line between new inovation vs. continualed development of a product is a bit blured. Yet I agree with the point your making.
This is where I left off with samsung dude, we wer looking at the new 9000 hdtv at 6,000€ which is slimmer and possibly the most beatiful tv I've ever seen, isn't in fact the best quality picture. And you would be better off buying a tv for half the price. But to stay ahead you have to introduce new models. Is that good? That's the way it is and it's being driven by the brand managers who have to justify their own jobs/existenses. 😆
Then there's the reduced number of Banks and, of course, the STW favourite, the supermarket doing away with all those small shops.
I believe that most market have a comfortable number of suppliers, in the UK and banking that number is 4 major banks. Once a fifth bank comes into play, the costs for the others become too high and we have to see a merger for the equilibrium and competitiveness to be restored. Regarding supermarkets, I guess we're paying the price now. By exercising our right to capitalism we have allowed the supermarkets to dominate the marketplace. eventually removing our freedom of choice and as we are seeing now, that without competition they can increase prices.
Possibly you're right in that there is less.
What if, right, you oiled a supermarket aisle, then you could use pieces of bacon to slide along it. Have competitions to see how far you can slide!
😮
Wheeeeeeee!
[img] 
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Just be sure you don't slip on some of the verbal Diarrhea that you might come across here!
How was that taken Elfin? Moving the camera or moving the zoom?
Taken whilst sliding on bacon in an oiled aisle! 😀
Anyway...
The next time any of you are designing (or indeed building) an ecomms site, please refer to this helpful guide...
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/shopping_cart
[i]New website with eCommerce section - all from scratch with brand new logo design and business style sheet - is £600 reasonable fee for the work? I seem to think it is, just wanted to check.
[/i]
[i]OK cool, it's a guy I've used a lot in the past with great success, but not for a couple of years. Sweet. I guess office costs in Karachi are a little lower than Harrogate
<retreats and awaits jingoistic and xenophobic assault....>
[/i]
Whats going here ?, no way I'm reading 7 pages of, errr, guff ?.
iDave.
That £600 quid you are paying your man in ****stan.
What will happen to that money, where will it go ?.
[b]THIS DEAL IS APESHIT MONKEY BANANAS[/b] had me, it was all going to win after that.
🙂
djglover - MemberI know TJ is trolling, but I do suspect that he does believe to some very great extent that he is unaffected by brand marketing and advertising. He is of course wrong, he's been shown up hugely twice already by tiger6791
I know I am unaffected, I have not been shown up by anything on this thread. How on earth has tiger shown me up? All he has done is claim I do things and have motivations that I don't have
Just a load of supposition and cant.
I have clearly explained how I make my decisions - based on mine and others real world experiences, price and convenience. Not on marketing ever.
Now too may of you guys are involved in this world and cannot believe that people like me exist because if you accepted people like me exist it shows how much your lives and importance is built on sand.
Teh problem is you cannot understand that people live with radically different lifestyle and values to you.