[Closed] "Warning Cyclist" I might turn left !

not seen one but they might (probably won't) stop cyclists from undertaking....always an accident waiting to happen and Mr white van man can't really be blamed. However, if it means he'll overtake then turn left it's all bad.

I've seen them on concrete lorries, and it seems fair enough to me as you shouldn't be undertaking anyway.

I have seen it on big lorries but it tends to say not to go up the left hand side a bit likt the no entry and pass on the right sign on the spray flaps on continetal lorries

Not supposed to undertake !

Well we all do, dont we? (except approaching a junction)

I think I might carry a sticker that says "warning, I might sue if knocked off"...........

Well we all do, dont we? (except approaching a junction)

that's probably when the van will turn left

Don't see a problem? Some people do need telling, especially with vehicles that might have large blind spots.

I very rarley overtake on the right, its a bit* like riding into oncoming traffic. The alternative is to undertake, wait, or go on the footpath.

*just

you should not undertake, unless you're happy to be killed just to pass a car which may well go past you again in about 5 minutes! ride in the road not in the gutter!

I think the point is that some of the bigger lorries (and probably Plumb Centre's vans) have crap rearwards visibility, so you might try and undertake, thinking they've seen you, when in fact they haven't.

I very much doubt having a sticker on the back of a van is going to absolve them of driving dangerously - it'd have to be a "baby on board" one for that to apply. 😉

To be fair, I think it's a good idea actually - there are plenty of people who cycle around now who don't have great road sense (yet, hopefully) for whom this sticker might make them think twice. It definitely doesn't absolve the driver of any responisbility in not turning left onto a rider right after overtaking though.

My point is that all urban trained cylists know very well when its safe to undertake and do so regularly in slow or stationary traffic but cars and lorries dont like it because we are getting through quicker than they are.
we have all been squeezed out and had to jump to the pavement, no problem.

A sticker sort of absolves the van driver from all obligation and he will now turn left even if he can see you up the inside....."its your fault didnt you see the sticker ? "

not seen one but they might (probably won't) stop cyclists from undertaking.

do people actually do that? Maybe the roads are wider where you are but you'd never do that here because you'd be crushed against railings/forced onto the pavement

I'm sure I posted something about this about 1 year ago..

hmm.. must disagree with MrNutt here, if it wasn't for undertaking there wouldn't be much point in me commuting by bike, it would take too long.

It's not actually safe to use 90% of the country's cycle paths if its not safe to undertake.

i never undertake.

if you dont have the balls to face oncoming traffic, you dont deserve to go in front of the vehicle

getting yourself wedged down the inside of a line of traffic might have very bad consequences. ignore 'cycle paths' that put you there, its your road too, just be prepared to keep yourself left when the vehicle behind wants to overtake.

....."its your fault didnt you see the sticker ? "

all urban trained cylists know very well when its safe to undertake

In the past 4 years there's been 5 women cyclists killed nearby to me after funnelling up the inside of lorries. I think its a good idea if it just causes people to think a bit - obviously one hopes that there's also a big sign inside the van reading "WATCH OUT FOR CYCLISTS" but that might be pushing it a bit too far.

Seems a fair enough warning don't see it as cop out just a warning, after all you may not see his indicator if your along side.

Saw one the other day and thought it was a stupid sign. 'Course it could turn left, or right, or go straight on, or perhaps even go backwards.

Isn't that what vehicles do?

Too many stupid signs in this country. It's another indication of the nanny state in which we live.

i think the issue should be why is a lorry designed with a ****in great blind spot?!?!?

i tell a lie, the only queue of cars you may undertake is a queue turning right, when you are going straight on.

terry, if you think being "squeezed out" is "no problem".........

because its designed to haul goods, rather than second guess idiot cyclists with a death wish?

[i]i think the issue should be why is a lorry designed with a ****in great blind spot?!?!? [/i]

Because we don't have 360 vision.

having seen the aftermath of a car undertaking an indicating HGV, anything that makes people think before acting is a step forward.

if you dont have the balls to face oncoming traffic, you dont deserve to go in front of the vehicle

And if you haven't killed a pig with your bare hands, you shouldn't be eating bacon.

Van driver is right it is wrong to undertyake but...

... most drivers do WTFTL so putting a sign on a van is a bit rich really.

RANT
New cycle lane added to a busy road I use to commute on, two lanes as it approaches a set of traffic lights at the top of the hill. It's legal to undertake as it's a cycle lane BUT you can't because all the cars are half in it because they don't want their offside wing mirrors hit by the second lane of traffic. Pointless expense and no enforement.

RANT OVER

I go with julianA......a sign does not/will not inprove safety. there is so much visual imput as we go a long and a 4x4inch sticker aint going do anything.

I undertake,always have done since my paper round days, my one golden rule is that there must be an escape option to my left......I never undertake where there are only railings/walls on my left with nowhere to go.

Same old colnclusion then,,,,,,,its safer on the pavement.....so I need a sticker for my rucksack that warns walkers that i might turn left.

cyclepaths are one thing, they are clearly designated "cycles only" areas, but filtering up the inside is, in my opinion "dangerous and stupid", if you must filter do it as a motorbike would, after all you have AS MUCH room as a motorbike.

how ould you feel if a motorbike or scooter filtered past you on the left?

It's legal to "undertake" if the queue of traffic is moving at less than 10MPH. It's also perfectly safe if done with care.

[i]if you dont have the balls to face oncoming traffic, you dont deserve to go in front of the vehicle

getting yourself wedged down the inside of a line of traffic might have very bad consequences. ignore 'cycle paths' that put you there, its your road too,
[/i]

and if you don't have the balls to undertake you shouldn't be cycling.

I don't mean this, but its about as ridiculous as what you said.

Engage brain before typing mate. Most cycle paths put you there.
What would you do here if there is slow moving traffic? Sit behind it? FFs.

[img] [/img]

That's a cycle lane, not a cycle path 🙂

MrNutt - you don't cycle in London do you? Motorbikes and scooters/mopeds go up the inside of traffic, along cycle lanes, sit in the advanced box all the time. A day when you don't find a scooter attempting to force past you in a cycle lane is a day to remember.

I'm glad someone on here has finally said that it isn't wrong to undertake. Undertaking is allowed if done cautiously in slow moving traffic. The vehicle turning left needs to make sure that it's near side is free, by checking it's mirror and doing a shoulder check. In the case of vans and lorry's they should have an additional mirror which many are being fitted with.

Having said that, I try to avoid undertaking as I find it far more dangerous than overtaking. Although I'll be facing on coming traffic, I can see exactly what this traffic is doing and I'm more in control.

I see some lorries with similar signs and I always think who would be so stupid to put themselves in such a spot, but people do.

Do you guys have any idea how many cyclists are killed by HGVs turning left? I don't have the figures to hand but if memory serves it was something like 10 last year in London alone.

If you're coming up to a junction and there's a lorry there don't undertake. Just don't. Please.

Anything that stops unwary cyclists from getting killed has got to be a good thing.

Seems reasonable on the van. We all (apart from the sainted few) pass on the left in busy traffic, just because we're there doesn't mean the driver saw us. I see the sign as a heads up "this van may be driven by someone who doesn't indicate" i don't think it's meant to absolve the driver of all sins.

If you undertake then you must be awake to all possibilities

The van might turn left tho - the sign's correct.

Apparently some people need reminding of the fact.

I undertake stationary traffic. When it starts to move I find myself a gap between cars (not along side one) and slot in, taking my place in the now slowly moving queue. When it speeds up then cars can pass me if there's room.

Anyone undertaking approaching a left turning is a nutter and clearly needs a sign to remind them how dangerous it is.

I don't see a problem with it. At least 'plumb centre' are actually recognising the fact that cyclists are on the road. Although if the van is turning left then I presume it will be indicating so you wouldn't be daft enough to pass on the inside anyway.

I'm always very careful of passing anything on the left and don't undertake moving traffic on the inside.

I think its Ok for the vans to display a sign, the drivers might think about cyclists a bit more TBH, they are not all morons.

True enough about where and when to undertake, goign past lorries approaching junctions is asking for a literal understanding of Darwinism.

I think it is now a legal requirement on certain sizes of lorry to have the sign plus blindspot mirrors fitted. This applies to new vehicles and is not retrospective.

Whether it is right or wrong to undertake, it is pretty stupid to do it approaching a left-hand junction to do it alongside a large vehicle.

If you're coming up to a junction and there's a lorry there don't undertake. Just don't. Please.

That's a given, and part of undertaking with care.

Whether I over- or under-take depends upon the road.

On one road in town the cars all drive more than a car width from the road, because the road's really wide and it saves them from having to weave in and out after pasing the occasional parked car. On that road, I undertake, with care.

On another road, the road is much narrower and there are more parked cars, so undertaking is almost impossible. On that one, there are very few cars coming in the other direction, so I just ride down the wrong side of the road, nipping back into the queue when it starts to move.

i undertake, but ALWAYS with great care, as ive come close to being taken out before,
when im turning left in my car, i dont check my left mirror to see if some nutter has come shooting up on the inside, i see it, as a cyclist, that its the cyclists responsibility to stay safe, because so many drivers dont seem to know we exist, and im fine with that.
in the same breath, i wont worry if some biffer in her 4x4 gets irrate because ive cut across her in a static traffic queue. im looking out for number 1 when im on the road.
the sign is just a reminder for you, and the blind spot on a wagons left hand side can be huge

People will disagree with this but this is what I find

In London if there is a queue of stationary traffic, cyclists tend to go down the left(undetake) and motorbikers the centre(overtake) and scooters tend to go any which way they please.

Personally I dont always like going down the center because often there'll be a motorcyclist coming right at you or behind you also trying to over take but obviously in some situations it makes more sense.

Anyhow I think alot of these deaths occur because people are filtering down the left but then the lights suddenly change and they have not managed to get far enough in front of the lorry for them to be seen and lorry turns into them.

I think that traffic lights need some kind of signal to suggest there about to change I realise this is why they go orange but its not long enough. Maybe even a count down so you can judge when it is safe to filter down the traffic.

Frankly this could quite also happen if the driver of a lorry was turning right as far a I can see. Especially if the driver was sat on the left.

I see that bs a sensible reminder not as a threat or warming. Not all cyclists have flawless road sense.

As with Olly - I undertake but I'm very VERY aware of the danger it puts me in. If traffic looks like it may move off soon I'll wait instead. IF theres someone signalling left I'll wait behind them unless the lights have only just changed to red. A wagon being at the front makes little difference to me as I'll usually either a) hang behind him because he fills the lane completely or b) get in front of him so he will see me, or turn left behind me. The point is being aware of what other people will do - assume no-one will look out for you and be hyper-vigilant but that doesnt stop you from undertaking in queueing traffic (or overtaking) so long as you make sure you dont get caught out. IF you do get caught out then its as much your fault as the other persons.

As a driver I personally wouldnt expect there to be someone in my left blindspot at a junction. Likewise as a cyclist I wouldnt BE in someones left blindspot as I know that as a driver I'd not be expecting someone there myself.

That's a given, and part of undertaking with care.

The trouble is that it isn't a given at all. Most cyclists have no idea how much danger they are putting themselves in by undertaking an HGV at a junction. Left-turning HGVs are the number one killer of cyclists in London - probably in the rest of the country.

Always, always, either hang back or go round the right-hand side.