[Closed] Vegetarianism - Is it natural?

i think you only need to look at size of people today to see that something is very wrong. i clearly remember a fat person standing out in a crowd only 20 years ago. now its a case of spot the normal size person. i dont preach, i dont like the cruelty involved in making that harmless looking red stuff in a plastic carton. all i can say is 22 years a vegan. my red blood count is far better than average and i still get my arse in the same size jeans i wore when i was 18.

My other half isn't is not 'vegetarian' but mostly eats vegetarian meals.
This seems sensible to me and i'm doing the same now. Most meat is bad quality, good stuff is expensive, and it takes up loads of land.

Can you really consider the reconsitituted low-quality meat that most people eat 'natural' anyway?? Have you seen how battery hens are kept?

[i] i think you only need to look at size of people today to see that something is very wrong. i clearly remember a fat person standing out in a crowd only 20 years ago. now its a case of spot the normal size person. [/i]

Were there more vegetarians/vegans 20 years ago then?

Were there more vegetarians/vegans 20 years ago then?

no but meat production has changed significantly.

we now ingest loads of hormones intended for the animals.

Joe

I thought a potato was a tuber? And they are different all together. Great source of carbs but still only about 2.5% protein.

Aren't the plant bits (i.e. the leaves) of a potato poisonous?

I've never questioned the health benefits of a balanced diet or vegetarianism. In fact, in an attempt to prolong the life of my wife (who had Cancer) we both became Organic Vegetarians. And apart from Tomatoes, that I can't stand, I really enjoyed it. Meals took longer to prepare, but I'm not sure if that was because of our inexperience.

After all the replies though, I think the answer to the questions are, "No it is not natural, it is a life choice (not sure it's healthier yet)" and "No, you could not be totally vegetarian living solely from the produce produced in Britain"

and pesticides intended for animals.

Okay. But what i was getting at is there are a lot more factors at play than diet to explain people getting fatter.

After all the replies though, I think the answer to the questions are, "No it is not natural, it is a life choice (not sure it's healthier yet)"

I'd agree with that, it isn't natural, it is a life choice, exactly the same as all other modern diets.

and "No, you could not be totally vegetarian living solely from the produce produced in Britain"

I think that's probably not true, although you might have a somewhat more restricted diet than many of us do and it maybe would not be quite so healthy (not convinced either way on that). If you look at what a lot of poor people ate historically in the UK and Ireland, it would have been a primarily meat free diet with no imported goods, so it is clearly possible to survive.

Joe

Well to all the vegan/veggie ninja on here that pretend to be the heathiest on the planet bla bla bla... Do you drink alcohol? If yes forget about it the healthy side then.

As for the OP, well human body is incapable to metabolise essential amino-acid. Hence you need them from an external source.
Being veggie is fine, as fish, eggs, dairy do contain a lot of such nutriments. I do however understand that you don't need g of red meat everyday (actually red meat is by far the worst meat one could eat, no matter how tasty is it) and that there is a problem in farming (yes your pig will grow heathly and tasty if you actually give him scraps to eat). Now vegan. Before I start I have to say I am biased due to the attitude of vegan ninjas from this very same forum.
What is the ****ing point of that? No meat, no fish, no sea food, no diary what you tell me where you get your AA from... Oh yes tofu, because soya is such a native plant from the UK, and having it overfarmed and shipped all over the world is obviously doing mother nature such a favour...
I think most of the vegan are just fashion victims. If you actually want to remove the suffering of small and cute animals etc etc well lets face it.

Throw yourself in front of the train (make sure it's not stoner's one) as human have become the dominant species of earth and as such just do every animal at the top of the food chain does... Eat the smaller ones.

yawn

another reasonable post from Juan :roll:.

EVERY TIME THIS COMES UP SOME MEAT EATER ALWAYS ENDS UP BEING INFURIATED BY MY EATING HABITS WHY?

I am a vegan *as I pesonally would not kill animals to eat (clearly a lifestyle choice ) you would/could /do excellent eat meat .
All for choice

Back on topic I doubt really that either a vegie or a meat etater could eat their current diet without imports so perhaps in that sense I doubt it is natural.
Then again neither is exchanging views on an internet forum , riding bikes or watching tv.

*sorry Juan dont drink either However I doubt I am the healthiest person on the planet and I am not a ninja either.

first off i'm a recent veggie convert - several illogical reasons, but i won't bore you with that.

I can't stand people who force their ideology down your throat wheter that be eat meat, don't eat meat, political or straight edge. blah blah boring.

No modern dieat is particually natural due to the way we ship food around the world, eat foods out of season.

a 'natural' diet would be that of a hunter gatherer or early arable farming - eating what would be produced locally. the problem with this is it has to be a snapshot in time. whgat is grown locally now is not what was grown locally 100 years ago....

[img] [/img]

EVERY TIME THIS COMES UP SOME MEAT EATER ALWAYS ENDS UP BEING INFURIATED BY MY EATING HABITS WHY?

Well if bloody vegan were not so offensive to start with (I think it was xerbivorx). It's like ss to be honest each to their own, but FFS why do you have to willy wave it, or jump to any one throat when they dare to say "I like meat".

No modern dieat is particually natural due to the way we ship food around the world, eat foods out of season.

Agree maybe time for a change? The market place have a small producer aisle who actually produce seasonal food. I'll ask the butcher if he know where is meat come from next time.

 

Where did the thing about ninjas come from? 😯

Isn't to do with their farts - silent but deadly?

[i]Back on topic I doubt really that either a vegie or a meat etater could eat their current diet without imports[/i]

I only ever buy british meat and try to get local if I can.

Where did the thing about ninjas come from?

I think in our dim and distant history the more concentrated amounts of protein in meat enabled our brains (that take a lot of energy to run) to grow and hence evolve into the people we are today (most predators are 'clever', most prey tends to be not).

As science has evolved we can now work out the levels of protein/carbs/vitamins etc. required to sustain our bodies. So in the days of transport/air travel (to import all those foreign nuts/veggies etc.) then it is probably feasible to be a vegetarian in this day and age.

(And all those saying eating meat means we eat pesticides etc. are conveniently forgetting these things are also used on vegetables too...).

So technicall not 'natural', but as other people have pointed out, getting your hair cut, driving cars and living past 40 are not 'natural'. I'm sure progress and pressures on the earths resources will see an increase in high protein vegetable alternatives. Still, the odd t-bone will still be a treat.

For Juan

A french person was once rude/offensive to me should I dislike all the French now or just that rude person?
DISCUSS

[img] http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/60/s_b7af469678ca47b8ad6ea936f5e8dd38.jp g" target="_blank">http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/60/s_b7af469678ca47b8ad6ea936f5e8dd38.jp g"/> [/img]

I'm a vegetarian. Is it a lifestyle choice? Of course it is. Do I still cook/prepare/serve meat for my family or visiting friends? Of course I do. Do I know that I am lucky to have this choice? Of course I do.

Why get so hung up on what other people eat? I would no more tell someone else what to do with [b]their[/b] diet as I would criticise someone for [b]their[/b] choice.

I suspect it is perfectly legitimate to criticise people for their diet if you build in the impact of that diet on other people.

If you were a bangladeshi peasant whose land had been flooded and salted over because somebody had realised that if they cut down a mangrove swamp so they could supply British people with jumbo king prawns too cheap to meter they would make a killing, you might reasonably ask whether that was fair. ([url= http://www.eurocbc.org/page777.html ]One quite interesting link here[/url])

6 billion people cannot eat anything like the amount of meat we eat without establishing a pretty big farm on Mars. Our "fair share" of the amount of meat the world can sensibly expect to produce is a damn sight less than most of us currently get through. 🙂

^ fair point.

Humans are natural Hunter gatherers, adapted to survive on most things as seasons and location dictate, our ancestors had neither the big Mac nor the Quorn burger, they either hunted it, picked or dug it up, meaning they would probably have gone months without meat at times and when they did get a nice chunk of antelope or boar they’d soon burn off the calories. I doubt many of you Audi driving, Accountant, Meat lovers have been hunting or for that matter farming lately, I also doubt you burn off all the high calorie meat you take in straight away.

I’m a Pescatarian (Fishetarian), almost, but not quite a veggie, not on ethical grounds or anything, mainly for the protein, Iron and Fat deficiencies a proper Veggie diet would have, initially I changed diet for 4 reasons:

1- A bet, which 15 years on I have not yet won!
2- A fair few of the “proper meat eating men!” I’ve met have been wheezy lard arses.
3- I though Women would think I was more sensitive, They didn’t…
4- I’m very keen on sea food anyway so if I’m going to eat just one type of meat it may as well be my favourite.

If I was still a proper Meatatarian I have no doubt I would be a total lard bucket by now (I barely do enough to shift the fat from a lentil)…
I’m not militant and would never advise anyone what to eat, it’s completely up to them, the one thing I do dislike is the modern militant carnivore, Billy big bollocks that feel all clever after a good Gordon Ramsey sponsored Veggie bashing session, you like meat, well done what does telling me prove?

As for the OP question on veggies surviving on indigenous UK produce, it is possible, there would need to be a fair amount of growing things at home, and allowing for Dairy and eggs I think protein would not be a major problem, most would probably be healthier.

Vegans are a different matter, there is actually very little a strict vegan can eat, even less if you stick to UK produce only, I think they would struggle without supplements and imported foods, they would be spending the majority of their time gathering berries and nuts, with a Net nutritional value lower than that involved gathering them…

If I may, I shall applaud you for your choice Barry, which is one that I currently lack the moral fibre and good judgement to make. 🙂

Of course it's natural. Everything is natural, how can it not be?

Unnatural things are green men from Mars, god, and the flying spaghetti monster.

mainly for the protein, Iron and Fat deficiencies a proper Veggie diet would have

Trade with people of different nationalities is unnatural and food preservation is the work of Satan

Do cows produce more methane per tonne bodyweight than a lentil and chick pea powered ADH?

I think not.

*parp*

I love threads like this...

Go get em Johnnie. Where's xherbivorx when you need a proper hardcore vegan terrorist to spice things up.[img] [/img]

Spice?

*sucks teeth*

They come from a long way away. You'll have to make do with some mallow and some parsley.

Most of our calories come from Oil. Fertiliser, herbicides, insecticides, transport, diesel etc. if you eat vegetables or meat so there should be no big disagreement. Not sure what will happen to our farming system when it gets more expensive though.

Not sure what will happen to our farming system when it gets more expensive though.

Or we could just farm in a more intelligent way, if you can't force yeilds up with oil-derived fertilizers and mechanisation, you have to think again. Permaculture for example. Acceptance of GM.

That and hope swine flu lowers the burden a good jolt.

Being veggie is fine, as fish, eggs, dairy do contain a lot of such nutriments

That's a very Spanish approach to vegetarianism: fish is an animal...

I am afraid it is going to be a bit more drastic for us than that. Look at it another way. I think in the UK we can produce bio fuels on a 1 to 2 basis. What energy we put in we get 2 back. Now does this not mean that since the energy we are putting in at the moment is oil then half of our foods comes from oil. I doubt we come produce the food the billions of people in the world need without oil. GM, permaculture and the like are not going to solve this problem.

That's a very Spanish approach to vegetarianism: fish is an animal...

Dear Meat eater Juan

Could you answer this?

A french person was once rude/offensive to me should I dislike all the French now or just that rude person?
DISCUSS

Yours offensive alcoholic weakling ninja cardboard eating weirdy beardy lefty lifestyle freak show food fascist (or vegan as we are sometimes known)

ta

Well from my experience is everyone but UK approach of vegetarianism. French italian and spanish veggies eat fish

I know, that's why it didn't particuarly surprise me. When I came to Spain I was vegetarian, when my father-in-law found out his comment was "but he eats [serrano] ham, right?"...

GM, permaculture and the like are not going to solve this problem.

... alone, I agree, but they are part of the solution ... we are not just going to be able to substitute oil for something else, fusion power for example. Not for some considerable time, if ever.

So the sooner we get started the better. Oh wait ...

Junkyard...you should know by now that no-one is allowed to say anything that Juan disagrees with (in case he offers them out for a 'fist chat' as per Tankslapper's thread), but Juan is allowed to openly slate anyone on the forum.

Luckily, we don't cry about it.

[i]French italian and spanish veggies eat fish [/i]

And chicken and pork. 😉

Abnormal
Most of the vegaterians ive seen were weak sad looking individuals.
Mind you if the do it cos they 'dont like the taste'[what a pile of nonsense]then fair enough ,as long as its not an issue of conscience,the meat is murder brigade, resplendent in their leather doc martins.
As to people who make their kids eat only veg especially when theyre still young and need these ingredients for growth .
Should be Fu**ing shot

I've got a mate who's veggie, I take great delight in offering him pork scratchings whenever we go out for a drink!

I also rip the piss out of his plastic shoes!!

Veggies, great entertainment if nothing else!

Whathaveisaidnow - Member

I've got a mate who's veggie, I take great delight in offering him pork scratchings whenever we go out for a drink!

I also rip the piss out of his plastic shoes!!

you sound fun! I bet you wear wacky socks.