At what cost? Can't help feeling that she was going to stand down, someone leaked the news so she couldn't announce on her terms, she got the hump, subsequent fight weakens Labour and hands the Tories an attack line.
How long will she serve for then before standing down; she'll be 75 at the end of the next parliament?
theotherjonv
Full Member
At what cost? Can’t help feeling that she was going to stand down, someone leaked the news so she couldn’t announce on her terms, she got the hump, subsequent fight weakens Labour and hands the Tories an attack line.How long will she serve for then before standing down; she’ll be 75 at the end of the next parliament?
I agree. They've now done the inevitable though which will effectively kill the story as a Tory attack line. If it ever was.
She should have been allowed to stand if she wished right from the start but this is the best outcome from where we are now.
173 Workers Party candidates. Their 10 point plan sounds pretty good
High quality laundrettes for women. That is so woke.
At what cost?
A completely unnecessary public row in which even right-wingers ended up queuing up to support Diane Abbott, and which over the period of a couple of hours Starmer was forced into another yet another U-turn.
That plus several days of total unnecessary distraction appears to have been the price that Starmer paid for looking tough on the left.
He should have focused on just purging the unknowns rather than the first black female MP. I guess that he got carried away with his success in purging the former leader of the Labour Party. He was probably starting to believe that his powers were limitless.
Funny that Starmer is wanting to beat the tories and he can’t even beat a tired old leftie who is universally derided as being a bit thick. That’s the tories attack lines written for them. Nice job!
Yeah, as always, negativity against Starmer, rather than looking at this whole weird scenario, where Abbott was brought back in to the Labour Party, and then made a statement to people regarding not being allowed to stand, Starmer has said nothing on this bar that it hasn't even been decided yet, if he didn't want Abbott to stand then why allow her back into the party before the selections?
A completely unnecessary public row in which even right-wingers ended up queuing up to support Diane Abbott, and which over the period of a couple of hours Starmer was forced into another yet another U-turn.
Created by who, and to whose benefit is the point of my question? And then if not fuelled, not exactly quelled by DA either.
I mean; she could have said "I'm very disappointed that people are being briefed that I'm being banned from standing, but it's an irrelevance really because I'd already taken the decision that at 70 and after 37 years as an MP, it's the right time for me to stand down"
It's all being proposed as a purge of the left but there is another entirely feasible explanation.
Created by who, and to whose benefit is the point of my question?
Well it was created by Starmer and his advisors, obviously. What Starmer said this afternoon he could have said several days ago, he is after all responsible for what he says, but he chose not to.
In fact the whole issue could have been resolved 5 months ago. Starmer deliberately strung it out because firstly he hoped the general election would preemptive the conclusion, as he lied and said that the disciplinary procedure was ongoing.
And then he hoped that a public row with the left would endear him to the likes of Daily Telegraph readers.
It all went tits up for Starmer when the right-wing saw the damage that attacking the Britian's first black female MP was doing and they started to line up behind her.
The only person to blame for this mess is Starmer. To blame the intended victim is ludicrous.
Any chance all the Starmer thread people could shut the **** up for a day or two and let other people contribute to this thread? Crowding any and all news and comment out with the same old shit… become self aware and take a ****ing break.
I didn't realise we had a one in one out policy for discussion.
I can only speak for myself, you understand, but I'm sick to death of the same opposing points being endlessly regurgitated.
I'm sure the feeling isn't really going to sink in until the Labour manifesto gets published. Anyone know when that will be? At the moment I feel like I'm waiting on medical test results: I know there's definitely something badly wrong, but I don't really know how badly wrong it is yet.
Any chance all the Starmer thread people could shut the * up for a day or two and let other people contribute to this thread? Crowding any and all news and comment out with the same old shit… become self aware and take a * break.
LOL! Someone isn't happy about this afternoon's developments! 😊
Go on Kelvin, you crack on - Starmer has finally pulled the plug on the story which has been dominating the general election campaign for the last few days, it's dead and buried now, despite the fact some still want to apportion blame, so you can talk about whatever you want 💡
Well it was created by Starmer and his advisors, obviously.
Not obvious from the version of events i heard. We covered this pages ago, go back and look at contemporaneous posts on p26 to about 31. Try to ignore yours and read other versions.
The version i heard
- investigation ended 6 months ago.
- ordered to complete training course which was done in Feb
- conditions of readmittance were still in discussion; in the version I heard she was going to have the chance to step down and have all manner of platitudes passed her way including potentially seat in Lords. And then.... 'sources close to' DA then said she was being barred from standing, stuff was leaked, etc. As I say - by who and who has benefitted?
In fact the whole issue could have been resolved 5 months ago. Starmer deliberately strung it out because firstly he hoped the general election would preemptive the conclusion, as he lied and said that the disciplinary procedure was ongoing.
First bit, maybe - if not 5 months ago then certainly sooner, although as per above in the version i heard discussions were ongoing still I agree no reason why they had to take 3 months after the course was done.
Did he lie - well, as I said before, in my experience the disciplinary process ends with the sanction being finalised. So no, not outright although not exactly totally transparent.
OTOH - deliberately strung it out? How long was he going to given that no-one, not even Rishi apparently, knew the election was going to be called. was he going to string out until October? Christmas?
The only person to blame for this mess is Starmer. To blame the intended victim is ludicrous.
Not blaming the victim, just saying she hasn't acted to minimise the damage caused by persons who would benefit. You say it was the labour right, I don't necessarily agree when you look at who benefits.
I do agree that once the row happened he'd have been far better acting on it, almost irrespective of what the action was.
In the end, different versions and interpretations of the same event.
[edit - and i agree, it's now fish wrappers, let's move on]
BREAKING: Iain Dale tells LBC he has now abandoned his bid to become the Conservative candidate for Tunbridge Wells, after this clip of him telling listeners he 'never liked the place’ and ‘would happily live somewhere else’ was revealed
Starmer has finally pulled the plug on the story
Definitely not the end of it. Every day from now until July 4th all we will here from Sunak and the tories is that Starmer was bullied into a u-turn by Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn and that if he becomes PM the labour left will be the hidden hand behind his premiership. I can't think of a more spectacular clusterf*** to be honest. This is his Gordon Brown bigot-gate moment.
[edit – and i agree, it’s now fish wrappers, let’s move on]
Don't be intimidated into not discussing an issue which has dominated the election campaign all week.
Although I agree that there isn't anything left to discuss thanks to Starmer finally seeing sense.
This is the current headline now:
Diane Abbott free to stand for Labour in election, says Starmer
It could have very easily have been the headline a week ago and we would have been spared all this nonsense. I mean in the media, not just here.
Every day from now until July 4th all we will here from Sunak and the tories is that Starmer was bullied into a u-turn by Diane Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn and that if he becomes PM the labour left will be the hidden hand behind his premiership.
Good point, I hadn't thought of that - the Tories will exploit it to their advantage claiming that he is weak - of course they will!
How ironic that what was obviously designed to show how tough Starmer is when dealing with the Left should so spectacularly backfire.
Embarrassing for Starmer, sure,
Problematic with some labour voters, probably
Will it change anything, not a pip
A lot of focus on one candidate, they only need to select 17? more assuming Abbot stands
Meanwhile the Tories need to find 190 in 6 days, even as more candidates & sitting MPs are dropping out by the day (3 today by my count)
There was a question whether Reform would actually stand in every seat, they currently have more candidates in place than the Tories
If the Tories fail to fill those slots it's going to look very bad for Sunak
No plan survives contact with the enemy, particularly if the enemy is a large proportion of the UK population.
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1796565060892147762
It’s an article of faith in what we’ll term another party that they have to put candidates up in every seat, no matter how futile, as a) it means they can claim to be a national party, b) they feel everyone should have the option to vote for them and c) there’s something about total vote share and central funding, as limited as that is. If the Tories fail to achieve that, especially in what is nominally a ‘safe’ seat…
Meanwhile the Tories need to find 190 in 6 days, even as more candidates & sitting MPs are dropping out by the day (3 today by my count
And given the standard of the 2019 intake, I think it’s safe to assume this next lot will be even worse!
You hear that? That’s the sound of the mud underneath the bottom of the barrel being scraped
On the Diane Abbott / Keir Starmer story, I wonder who the leaker was, or if it was even a leak.
If I was a Tory agent provocateur I might have been tempted to say KS was blocking DA just to see if I could cause trouble.
Worst that happens is nothing much happens, but possibly you get to set Labour’s left and right against each other, and maybe you even get a chance to have Labour’s left torpedo Labour’s chances in July.
And you know KS will act in a proper manner, distancing himself from the proceedings, which loads of people will see as pretending he wasn’t behind something nasty.
There was no benefit to KS’s people leaking, or Labour’s right, or Labour’s left so far as I can tell. So I wonder, who was the anonymous leaker?
martinhutch
Full Member
No plan survives contact with the enemy, particularly if the enemy is a large proportion of the UK population.https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1796565060892147762/blockquote >
Oh dear, thats inconvenient! LolIt's highly likely Starmer will meet a similar situation during the election but I'm hoping he is better prepared that the constantly passive aggressive Sunak.
this position about the government having infinite money if only it could believe hard enough is your hobby horse, isn’t it?
solutions can’t possibly exist because according to your false logic there is only one pot of money that has ever been swilling around since the gold standard
I think I’ve mentioned it many many times...Firstly...Seventh...
Quod Borat demonstrandum, Rodders.
… and when you get past [George Galloway] you’ve got deputy leader Chris Williamson. What a delightful bunch
Galloway is simply a self-interested person with zero scruples, but Williamson is bonkers. It is totally wild that self-proclaimed leftists would associate with a man who takes money from the Iranian state to present TV shows on a channel that spreads anti-Semitic propaganda and pushes Iranian government talking points. Any reasonable person should ostracise him, not follow him!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_TV
Quod Borat demonstrandum, Rodders.
Yeah well there's never a counter-argument is there.
Labour's GB energy (PFI) launch has gone well!
Private jets on the way to Scotland to a green energy launch. Misdirected URLs. Terrible posters.
I think the Tory party are exerting way too much influence these days.
Yeah well there’s never a counter-argument is there.
I'm certainly not arguing with you about your pet subject. You have more practice and time than I do. I am saying when you've got a pet subject that is the lens through which you see just about everything, like you do, you're not exactly a typical voter. The fact that a mainstream party hasn't won you personally over is no surprise and you can't really draw any conclusions about their electability on that basis.
It is totally wild that self-proclaimed leftists would associate with a man who takes money from the Iranian state to present TV shows on a channel that spreads anti-Semitic propaganda and pushes Iranian government talking points.
What is a "self-proclaimed leftist" as opposed to your ordinary run-of-the-mill leftist, in your hyperbole which looks as if has been lifted straight out of the Daily Mail?
Don't most leftists admit to being leftists then?
And should I call myself a self-proclaimed leftist - what is the correct protocol?
Not aimed at any one person here, instead at "most of us", including me.
We are endlessly tying ourselves in knots over the 10% we passionately disagree about whilst ignoring the core 90% we do.
The 10% might seem like the war but in fact it's just the battle.
Apparently Labour now have a candidate in every seat theyre contesting (assuming Abbot stands), what happens if the Tories dont get that 190 odd they still need in the 6 days? some are ones they have decent majorities in!
polls over the next few days will be interesting, so far nothing much has changed in the polls
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1796543880545894436
now the election has been called and the tone set things may start tightening as it filters through to voters, but Im not convinced the Tories have done anything to shift the dial vs labour, the lib dems or reform -and its the latter they are focusing on with their policies- theyve never really had competition from the right before- what if reform (or labour + LDs) grow their vote over the next few weeks? what happens if people vote tactically to unseat them?
IF they stay the same the Tory wipeout is going to be nuts, theyve never dipped below 30% at a GE in the last 100 years , thats what they got when they lost in 1997 on 165 seats, but there was no Reform then, if they end up on 20%, they could end up with a handful (<50) of MPs. What if they fail to get a candidate for all the seats?
I dont think anyone knows what that will actually look like- would a new party form around them?- or even which MPs would escape the cull, half!! the Tories 50 safest (biggest majority) seats are predicted to fall on current polling, almost all to the Lib Dems.
Of course the polls could well tighten and their defeat might just be bad but not catastrophic- even that would be interesting- Cameron changed the party a lot the last time round.
Very few people own newsapers or TV stations, you need to listen to what they say irrespective of the platform. Every time there's a flare-up in the ME you get one on here being a little embassador for apartheid but has nothing to do with mtb. We should be flattered that STW is taken so seriously.
Labour promise to increase tax on domestic oil and gas production.
Because unaffordable energy makes poorer people happier, somehow. And making our domestic industry less competitive is also a good thing, somehow.
sorry just realised I posted the wrong graph up there
meant it to be this one
Labour promise to increase tax on domestic oil and gas production
British Gas profits of £750m ; thoughts and prayers
Labour promise to increase tax on domestic oil and gas production.
Because unaffordable energy makes poorer people happier, somehow. And making our domestic industry less competitive is also a good thing, somehow.
you were moaning 4 hours ago about no policy discussions, now you're moaning about the policies. No pleasing you is there!!
Tax is on production. Gov has ability to set / cap pricing so that companies can't just pass on the cost in their prices. Seems like a sensible idea both from a tax raising and green PoV - what would you suggest instead?
